Shotgun Tweaks?

SecretFire · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">A little bit too effective?</div> After playing for a while, I've been wondering about the shotgun. It does damage close up, and most of the kharaa need to be close up to attack. Its ability to take dow a fade relatively quickly just doesn't seem to jive with it's position in the tech tree at all.

Not recommedning major nerfs or anything, but it seems like a higher cost and slightly lower damage would be a good thing to try in one of the beta patches.

SemperFi1 · August 2003

I think the cost of 10 is perfect. It just could be toned down a bit, just return its rof back to the way it was in 1.04 and youre fine. But I still think any balance suggestions should actually wait until people have learned to play. Marines are losing 70% of the time but people still want to nerf them just because they got killed - what they think is cheaply - once.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

It's a heavily debated issue. I won't re-post my opinion, because I just can't muster the testicular fortitude for another dispute with Aegri today <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Ollj · August 2003

Get silence or eat some celery and get them from behind.
Offensive shootguns are just the perfect counter agains sensory first. not more.

Monkeybonk · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>testicular fortitude </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

If there's one thing I never want to hear again...

Anyway, the best tweak would simply be to make it do less damage the more armor the target has. If I shot a guy wearing kevlar armor with a shotgun, he might get knocked over, but the kevlar is going to literally bounce the pellets back out.

RabidWeasel · August 2003

I would prefer to see the shotgun cost 15, and the HMG and GL at 25, with the HMG cone tightened to make it a long range anti-alien weapons (small clip limits it however) and the GL damage increased to 130.

This would make marine weapons more expensive and more specialised, and thus encourage use of mixed weapon squads.

X_Stickman · August 2003

The shotgun is fine in my opinion. One on one with anything (except a skulk), the shotgunner will lose if the alien has any skill. A good fade won't even get hit.

Monkeybonk · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Aug 9 2003, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The shotgun is fine in my opinion. One on one with anything (except a skulk), the shotgunner will lose if the alien has any skill. A good fade won't even get hit.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Stupidest

Most

Illogical

Shortsighted

Post

Ever

Congratulations, you won the 'Armory humper of the week' award.

Jim_has_Skillz · August 2003

You should really play the game before you say the shotgun is overpowered. It is a great gun and it has a great strat associated with it, shotgun rushing. Unlike jp rushing, the shotgun rush can be stopped, you said that it is a close-range weapon, which it is, so the answer would be that you COUNTER WITH LERKS. Lerks are very effective at taking out shotties, I suggest you try it then offer your suggestions.

Jaml · August 2003

I think the shotgun is fine now. In 1.04 it was never used and even now hmgs are handed out more than shotguns which shows us that it isn´t overpowered. Sure the shottie owns the hmg but only with a skilled player that knows how to use them. a noob is better off with a hmg spraying and praying

Salaman · August 2003

I think the shotgun is overpowered in comparison to the HMG. Though then that raises the question of "Is the shotgun overpowered or is the HMG underpowered?"

Shotgun advantages:
very high damage per shot(counters redemption)
reloading doesn't leave you as vulnerable(quickly stick a few shells in after each kill)
Tier 1 tech
half the cost
full damage vs buildings
Not as bulky(can move faster with shotgun)
More ammo efficient

HMG advantages:
Longer range
Faster rate of fire

Sirus · August 2003

There's plenty of counters against shotguns and shotgun rushes. If they use only shotgun have your team go lerk. Watch how amazingly well they get crushed.

cheesehound · August 2003

As Sirus said, there're many counters already in place (Lerks baby, Lerks!). I've occasionally been shotgun sniped and killed by one shot across a hive room/marine spawn, but I figure that's more of a fluke than anything.

SemperFi1 · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rage against the Pepsi machine @ Aug 9 2003, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think the shotgun is overpowered in comparison to the HMG. Though then that raises the question of "Is the shotgun overpowered or is the HMG underpowered?"

Shotgun advantages:
very high damage per shot(counters redemption)
reloading doesn't leave you as vulnerable(quickly stick a few shells in after each kill)
Tier 1 tech
half the cost
full damage vs buildings
Not as bulky(can move faster with shotgun)
More ammo efficient

HMG advantages:
Longer range
Faster rate of fire  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
In 2.01c hmgs now do full damage to structures again.

XCan · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Aug 9 2003, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The shotgun is fine in my opinion. One on one with anything (except a skulk), the shotgunner will lose if the alien has any skill. A good fade won't even get hit.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And how about if the shotgunner has some skills he won't even miss? What's that? Well 2 blasts to down a carapaced fade, 1 blast to down a non-carapaced.

Monkeybonk · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Aug 9 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> There's plenty of counters against shotguns and shotgun rushes. If they use only shotgun have your team go lerk. Watch how amazingly well they get crushed.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Which would be great, except this stupid 'counter' assumes everyone has 30 resources in reserve, AND a safe location to gestate in.

QuixotesGhost · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If I shot a guy wearing kevlar armor with a shotgun, he might get knocked over, but the kevlar is going to literally bounce the pellets back out. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Heh, wrong. A shotgun blast doesn't need to penetrate the skin to seriously screw you up. I've heard the blunt truama associatated with getting shot with buckshot while wearing kevlar compared to getting hit by a Mac Truck.

You're also forgetting that any Marine that takes a Shotgun negates his chief advantage, which is range. You can't gleefully sit back and pour firepower down hallways, you gotta get up close and tangle with the Kharra. That's an incredibly dangerous position for any marine to be in.

Monkeybonk · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (QuixotesGhost @ Aug 9 2003, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If I shot a guy wearing kevlar armor with a shotgun, he might get knocked over, but the kevlar is going to literally bounce the pellets back out. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Heh, wrong. A shotgun blast doesn't need to penetrate the skin to seriously screw you up. I've heard the blunt truama associatated with getting shot with buckshot while wearing kevlar compared to getting hit by a Mac Truck. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Newton teaches us that the recoil from the shotgun would thus be the equivilent of getting hit by a Mack Truck, then.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You're also forgetting that any Marine that takes a Shotgun negates his chief advantage, which is range. You can't gleefully sit back and pour firepower down hallways, you gotta get up close and tangle with the Kharra. That's an incredibly dangerous position for any marine to be in.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Which doesn't matter beacuse *gasp* the only useful ranged attack is a 3 hive ability! The marines should not have a close-range weapon at all. Almost every alien needs to close with you to do damage... and the shotgun kills nearly instantly, so what's your point? I sacrifice range... and what's he going to do? Parasite me to death? He gets close and BAM I blow his whole **** head off! BAM I blow another **** hole in him! I reload (which is supposed to be the disadvantage of a shotgun) and get attacked. I interrupt the reload and BAM BAM BAM blow more **** holes!

Oh look a gorge trying to spit me to death! Out comes the pistol and I pour 200 damage in him in a second!

Shotgun Tweaks?

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