Sensory Counter

Kid-A · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">We need one...</div> I've commed a few games (more that I'd like as 'comm fear' is back with a vengence - noone will comm). And I've won about 50%-75% of the games. But recently Khaara have started to use sensory really well and even MT doesn't help my poor marines getting munched.

Now Obs is supposedly 'the counter' to it, but how can I afford to spam weak 20 res structures all around the map? I tried it, pointless as soon as its left undefended for a second it was got, once even when it was with a TF and turrets. It's just too weak and such a res burden.

Does anyone have a counter to competent sensory useage?

Legionnaired · August 2003

Hotkey the obs, scan the area in front of your marines or where you know there is a sensory.

OttoDestruct · August 2003

Personally I would like to see an upgrade only researchable after motion tracking, probably called thermal tracking, which detects buildings and large creatures (fade, onos) inside the cloak of a sensory.

Necrosis · August 2003

The game I was in, our Comm responded to marine suggestions (like "these onos are coming out of the walls") and would scan when it got hairy.

I was aliens in another game, and the enemy comm had a well stocked dual RT minibase which we intended to take from him. I had sensories everywhere, and 7-8 fades/lerks/onos kept going in from nowhere. He just gathered his troops there, pinged, and then the troops flattened us. Took us an inordinate amount of time to take it, helped by our securing of all three hives.

Generally marines will shoot at likely Offensive/sensory hidey holes, and if more marine players equate invisible RT with a sensory, it would work out easier for the commander (handier to let them shoot all round and drop a few ammo packs on top).

Once a sensory is cleared its imperative to make sure nothing is hiding and rebuilding. Again, job for the marines if they shoot off a few rounds. You WILL lose tons of res if you scan everywhere, so only scan places you intend to hit or that you intend to hold *properly*.

Summary: Identification of magically appearing units
Massing of competent troops
Scanning/grenade fire
Lay the smack down
CONSOLIDATE after.

Sarisel · August 2003

The logical response to the spreading of sensory chambers across the map seems to be to place observatory outposts in key points on the map (like areas with double res nodes, and areas needed by Kharaa to move around the map freely, and of course hives, if you locked one down, or two - the last cannot be stressed more as aliens can place cloaked hives and have you wondering how they're getting those abilities). The key points on the map are more important than weapon upgrades until the second hive, and by then you'll be netting in a lot of res from marine-kill-alien income. The abundance of observatories will allow you the luxury of scanning where needed. Keep marines in squads, and have at least one shotgun in each squad. There is nothing worse than a commander not responding to the sensory strategy, as each time a marine dies, the res goes to the Kharaa - after which you get into a lot of trouble.

Necrosis · August 2003

I was spectating a game where Marines had found a hive but clearly hadn't noticed it because it was cloaked. Comm sent in HA/HMG marines to nail the RT, which worked for all of 5 seconds as the rapidly respawning skulks whittled the HA down. Eventually he spawns in a TF which also ends up as skulk fodder.

5 mins later he has a phase gate outside, a TF, 3 sentries and the anti structure sentry. As its a hive all the Kharaa start swarming in their droves. Marines finally get some GL but by that stage its too late, they're jammed in a corridor and onos keep stomp/devouring them on by one. Commander pings the hive room and reveals the hive but the marines are a corridor away where they can see the onos charging at them because cloak didn't extend that far.

Marines lost. Had they snafu'd the hive on discovery, rather than bash the RT, they'd probably have been able to keep the PG up.

I'd like to think it was partly "new map" problems but even still, the comm or soldiers didn't notice the telltale signs and ended up getting stomped <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Tink · August 2003

I think you will just have to keep hiding your Obs. If you do the eggs in one basket approach it can work well, hide the obs near your main base as you tech up so your human defenders can respond. I have more faith in the new turrets but (they are) still no substitute for a good marine. Finally you will just have to get in the habit of getting your boys to mine the obs, as it is a much more critical sructure now. If the Obs does go own, good old area supression with hmgs and gls shold keep their heads down <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>. General wholesale fire whenever your boys feel itchy can also be a tactic, set one HMG to fire perpetually and keep loading him up with ammo. I like it personally, now its no longer a "rush the proto", so you can churn out kit regularly. Best of all I don't feel guilty about rushing to JP's xD. All the best - Tink

include · August 2003

I remember I was running in an empty hive room knifing along the walls to check for sensories...running, knifing, running...can't move, huh? KNife.....knife knife? HItting something but nothing's showing up, look up, ACK, HIVE!

Gargamel · August 2003

I m not verz experienced yet, but I would build a second or even third obs at base if I have to, group them up 1,2,3, get all marines group5 and get them clear one sector after the other scanning like mad. Putting observatories at minibases is also good idea once advancing and taking those territories for yourself.

Eclipser · August 2003

I once single-handedly took a hive as a gorge. I sensory-creeped my way into a hive that had a PG and turrets. I put up the hive, but since it stays visible for a second, the turrets started shooting at it, preventing it from cloaking. I quickly fired spit at a wall so that I would uncloak, and since I was closer to the turrets than the hive, the turrets focused on me. I danced around until the hive cloaked, then ducked behind a wall until I cloaked again. Then, a HA/HMG phased in as I was building DCs. He looked around a bit as I stopped building, but phased out without noticing anything. As soon as the hive went up (which was actually our third), I bilebombed the PG and TF.

If you know the aliens have sensories, put Obs in any place you want to keep <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Necrosis · August 2003

I am so going to "borrow" that strategy for games where the hive lockdown is in full effect.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Spazmatic · August 2003

Obs up important bases. Maybe put 2 or 3 in base (only hotkey one). What you can do then is doubletap the hotkey, grab the obs, and scan... Not TOO much more time consuming than hotkeying each (I sometimes have as many as 5 or 6, so hotkeying all isn't an option). Also, remember, if they don't have silence, you can use your ears, as well as occasional shots into empty hallways... And place a grunt in front whose role is to die.

The other choice, of course, is to drop obs at all critical junctures... Cheap trick but: sink them with four marines around to build on the way down.

sej · August 2003

Aliens use sensory first?

Youre lucky then, its easier to win as marines that way.

Sensory first is great fun, very effective etc for about five minutes. And then its rubbish.

Late game you miss your redemption/celerity as onos, or your carapace as fade.

Sensories = still the weakest first choice.

Youre just lucky they didnt put mcs down first.

Ape · August 2003

Sensory is extremely easy to counter, a lot easier than most commanders realise.

You guys have pretty much hit it on the head, observatories strategically placed around the map is the way to go. Scanning no longer costs 3 res, every observatory has its own energy pool (max of 100, cost's 25 to scan) which slowly recharges.

The commander needs be aware of his marines movements and scan ahead where sensory towers may become a problem.

However, don't just place observatories randomly around the map without keeping them protected. If you can't afford a TF + turrets or its not viable, try placing one right next to an electrified RT for a bit of defense. Ideally, mine it up or get a TF.

Liger · August 2003

And always remember, keep your TFac covered from all directions. else even the obs won't help keep it alive.

killed about 3-4 TFs + farm and outpost after flanking it to where the turrets couldn't hit me, and wham, it was down faster than the marines could sneeze.

As Marines, about my 3rd or 4th game I started suggesting the com drop an Obs so we wouldn't lose it to cloakers.

One of my favorite Kharaa actions was on lost, i think, I sensory creeped on the one hive with the seige deck... They eventually realized what I was doing, but by then I'd gotten the hive all the way up, and put up a decent number of DCs...

Necrosis · August 2003

"Sensory first is great fun, very effective etc for about five minutes. And then its rubbish.
Late game you miss your redemption/celerity as onos, or your carapace as fade."

Late game we have all three hives because in those first few minutes marines can't see squat. Mid game we have two hives and the second is virtually always DC. By that point sensories are all over the map and Comms can't ping us fast enough. And if hive 2 isn't up in 5 minutes you're losing the game anyway. Sensory first on pub servers is a way of life, and having playerd as marine IMHO not enough people know how to counter it or even to shoot a few rounds off to reveal cloaked defences. The only time sensory first becomes a liability is if the Marines keep shotty rushing before the gorges can build Off near the hives.

In one game I've seen aliens rush a 2 rt room over and over and over. The Comm kept pinging and once he ran out the room fell. No doubt he probably thought sensory was rubbish <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

sej · August 2003

2 rt room?

I.e the marines held a double res location and there was a sensory outside, so aliens kept rushing whilst cloaked?

Why didnt he just build an obs there?

Akfeka · August 2003

If you shine your flashlight at a cloaked chamber, rather than lighting up the wall, the ground around the chamber lights up (the chamber itself is lighting up, but since it is invisible, you can't see it.) It can be a bit hard to see, but it allows you to look for cloaked chambers without wasting ammo, or running into all the corners waiting to get stuck.

MrKNifey · August 2003

The #1 counter to sensories and cloaking:

Awareness

As a marine, being alert can go a long way in preventing ambushes. EVEN if a skulk is cloaked, as long as he is out of range of a SC, you can still see the pop-up-text-thing-that-tells-you-if-who-you're-aiming-at-is-an-enemy-or-not. Also, cloak isn't perfect. You can still see a VERY faint outline of the cloaked object. As was stated, your flashlight can highlight this dim outline.

Edit: Observatories help, but they run out of energy too fast, and it costs too much early game to have a small farm of them, as this is the time that sensories are most effective....before marines get many upgrades.

Necrosis · August 2003

"Why didnt he just build an obs there?"

Because we kept piling into the room - his defences had left out 3 approaches because of bad placement, so his men had too much trouble trying to bounce us back and keep the turrets up rather than building an Obs.

By that stage he was down to 3 rts anyway (including those two) so I doubt he had much cash left since he seemed to have spent in on HAs which we promptly devoured up.

elchinesetourist · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Aug 3 2003, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You WILL lose tons of res if you scan everywhere...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
scanner uses energy now

Nicator · August 2003

Scent of Fear is god's own upgrade. Combine that with good sensory placement for cloaking, and you = win.I see a lot of people advocating movement first, but certainly in pubs it simply isn't as effective at preventing the marines from spreading in the early game. With good SC placementm you can keep the marines badly hemmed in early game.

Necrosis · August 2003

"scanner uses energy now "

Oops! I meant drop scanners everywhere. *embarassed*

Although the point applies equally to losing tons of energy which you can ill afford to lose defending an RT you can't possibly hold.

Sensory Counter

Comments