First Chamber?
Chef
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3031Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3031Members
I choose movement everytime because having 3rd level celerity as a skulks makes for much better survivability overall. Granted it leaves gorges/o-chambers in plain sight but I've found it much more useful than sensory chambers which require the marines to run into a specific ambush. With celerity you can even run at them down a hall and reach them quick enough to double chomp in the early game to get a quick kill.
Anyone else agree with me?
Anyone else agree with me?
Comments
But I've seen people do some good stuff with movement... so... really it's matter of opinion... I just always try to get Defence as the second chamber.
PS: With a Movement you'll get faster energy gain... (%15 when youre next to it.)
I agree that the best first chamber, on the merits of its upgrades, is movement. Celerity and silence help skulks, adrenaline helps gorges and lerks, adrenaline and celerity help Fades. Defense is my preference for second chamber, so oni can redeem and fades can have carapace.
But I agree that movement is highly under-used. Fades still need movement chambers more than any other evolution, and the difference adrenaline or celerity makes to a Fade is incredible.
Motion Tracking is countered by sensory cloaking: which inturn is countered by being within the range of a Obs (as all cloaking is)
Sensory creeping takes skill, and alot of resources. I've been able to creep up entire hives because the marines didn't know that you have to have an Obs at a turret farm you intend to keep now.
Onos is both plural and singular, like Fish or Sheep.
Its the same thing as Defense chambers in version 1. Too many people sucked for other options to work properly. I personally enjoy Motion first as I enjoy silence, but I drop sensories every time I gorge.
Another thing to consider is the effect the chambers have on the Marines early game. I have as one gorge bottled a whole marine team with one sensory and an offensive tower. Why? Because they didnt know what else was out there and it took time for them to Ping the area with only one node. Even Vets have trouble with cloaked aliens. When they did ping the area they rushed me and my chamber and I was dead... but we had a second hive up and half the rez on the map.
I have already had words with people who have a closed mind. I can't stand to hear people tell me that sensory is the only choice. I just find in a pub game its probibly the better choice.
Movement for those of us who know what we're doing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am perfectly fine with the default running speed of the Skulk and sometimes find it a bit too much... i can escape just fine in most maps. Silence is my bane, it is my defeating weapon. No one really understands that the marines typically hear you coming before they see you (coughcoughmotiontrackingwallhackingcoughcough) and thus, a silent Skulk munching on your buttplate when you dont hear him slip up on him is deadly.
Thats basically it.
lets look at the facts: a chamber's effectiveness is based on three main things. first is the upgrades they provide. second is the abilities they themselves have. and third is the situation/map/status of the enemy(ok, so its more than 3).
typically, you see SCs as the #1 because of cloaking. the arguement goes, once marines get MT, they lose their use. however, the utility of Scent of Fear is being overlooked. a skulk loaded with SoF, silence/celerity, and regen/carapace(depending on the move upgrade) is an extreemly dangerous hunter, capable of taking out HAs backed tightly in a narrow corridor. not to mention the use for the other evolutions.
DCs tend to be last in 2.0. their healing is useful, but moves and senses are viewed as more versital(versitile? screw it. i dont spell). i would like to voice a complaint however. i feel redemption is both overused/"overpowered" and overrated. that being said... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> DCs can hold an enemy back, but they certainly cant turn the tide of a war.
for MCs, ive noticed a hightened feeling to them. maybe i should rephraise that. in the servers, ive noticed players that prefer MCs (to SCs as #1) feel and act like they are better/more enlightened than those who stick to a simple and effective means of concealing your actions from the enemy (a vital part of guerilla combat). the movement ability and the energy regen are hardly worth it in the beginning stages of a game. however, it DOES have some of the best abilities available.
in the end, i think it all comes down to preference. i feel all 3 choices, and all 6 chains of progression, are perfectly viable. that is, if they fit the situation. some maps dont exactly help the arguement for each chamber.
i guess im just frustraited with people wanting the #1 absolute 2000% correct way of doing things. (not an attack at the thread or anyone in it. just venting). kudos to Flay and the gang for making my favorite mod that much better.
On the other hand, its upgrades aren't exactly the most useful ones avaliable. However, IMO the feasibility of each indivdual chamber type stands thus:
<ul>
<li>MC, useful upgrades but field effect only benefits certain lifeforms.
<li>DC, both effect and upgrades are useful but not to a large extent.
<li>SC, immensly useful effect (but one that can be nullified through scanner sweep) and weak upgrades. Effectivness depends largely on predictability.</ul>
Anyway, there is no real "starting chamber", but DCs are a must if you have onuses (yes, ONUSES) on your team.
Sens are good if: You place them in the right place, i always go for mcs and when i do theres always someone who says "omg newb mcs suck", so we get 2nd hive up and he goes and builds one sens, so what use is that, u get lvl1 upgrade, you need sens all over the map in main places (like holoroom)
I think all chambers are good if you use the right, but dcs arnt really needed now first as skulks <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> have enough health and can survive better, so for me it would be MCs first, then DCs (for onoz <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> n fade <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> ) then sens.
SoF is good, but if you have headphones you can hear them anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just my opinion ^^ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Although, a cloaked skulk outside of a marine entrance does wonders, too. Marine walks by you with back turned and he's all yours.
Sensory Chambers are extremly powerful in the beginning of the game. On hera entrance they can keep the marines in the base if placed properly. I think that scanning as a comm will not be very used simply because of the difficulty of the scan. I commed some games and scanning is done horrible. First you must select you observatory to be able to scan and that takes some time if you havent it bound to a group key. Then you must jump back to where you want to scan. If finally your´re there you notice you cant scan because your researching phase tech and you havent the cash to afford multiple observatories. The next problem is that scanning costs 25 energy and energy recharges very slowly giving you max. 4 scans every few minutes before you have to change to another obs. In that time your squad is already chomped down by the skulks. Scanning definatley needs to be looked at since actually its too time consuming stopping the comm from doing other tasks like building and upgrading. energy should go into a energy pool that has a max. amount of 100*obs. And then you should be able to simply scan with a hotkey. Further normal scans should only cost 10 energy to allow more of them. To prevent instant sieging of hives a special siege scan is kept that costs like the actual scan and cant be bound to a hotkey to keep the comm busy selecting his various obs.
As for which chamber to go for first, all of them are really viable.
The best one on a public server with a lot of new players is SC because even an invisible newbie skulk can get kills if placed well by good gorges. The upgrades on SC aren't that great. SoF is good but sound is just as good really if you use it well.
If your playing with good players that know what they are doing MC is probably the best choice. With silence you can take out whole squads because you approach them from behind and they hardly ever check their backs if they don't hear anything coming = <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> lots of kills for you. MC in a PCW would probably be the first choice. I've started to see MC as a first choice increase in popularity recently and when i ask players what they want, quite a few often say MC.
I don't know about DC as a first chamber, because i don't see it used much. It's definatly not the battle winner it was in 1.x but as a first chamber it could be interesting. Maybe i should place some to the annoyance of my team, most probably, next time. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
SC is cancelled by MT to an extent and so is silence, but silence is good because even with MT they can't see or hear you coming from behind them. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd say my prefered order would be MC then DC and if you havn't won already SC.
Great 1. post man. You will make a lot of friends here. Can we say NOOB?
Yes, you may see some more than others, but there is no real counterargument to suggesting Defense first, other than providing me with a litany of the benefits of the other chambers.
Yes, I realise what you can do with them, but the chambers all have opening strategies which can be succesfully mounted around them successfully against even the most competant marines.
And the same goes for M and S - the strategic and tactical options available to the alien team has not merely trebled, it is 10-X
However, I still cannot see how in any serious game ANY choice but defense for 2nd chamber, if it was not first, is workable. This is the only serious limitation of the alien abilities, as they stand in 2.0 - except pheromones which I really can't seem to make work for me in any real sense.