Playing 2.0: Horrible
wlibaers
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members
Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8685Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The game is OK. But the players...</div> What appears to be wrong is a sudden influx of people who haven't figured out how to play NS. The problem is not the details (though not having a manual certainly causes some problems here), but one very important thing: people refuse to work together. There are some servers where you do get good games. They also tend to be filled rather quickly as the better players know those servers (they're generally the same as in previous NS versions). Then you go pick a random server with a good ping, and end up with a disaster.
For marines, the situation is nearly OK. Sure, you do have the few persistent rambo players who run out of base, get killed, try again, get killed, and keep repeating that until the game is over. But most marines quickly figure out it's better to stay in groups, as the period between crime and punishment is rather short (a solo marine generally doesn't last long in 2.0).
For aliens, it's a different matter. The few marine rambo players are a nice source of food for the rambo skulks, so those players who don't seem to realize they're in a team can actually do quite well for some time in the early game. Protecting gorges isn't done anymore. Hell, protecting hives isn't done anymore. Sure, some players will still try to work together. However, a bad marine team might have two or three rambos. On a random server, you already have an above-average alien team if there are three people who do want to work as a team. Going gorge is out of the question, they just want to go Onos. Who cares that a one-hive Onos is too weak to kill a turret farm? As long as they get to devour people, they're happy. Until they realise they can't use stomp, then it's "OMG stupid gorge, why didn't you get more hives?" Well, that I got killed a few times due to a lack of skulk assistance and had to spend more res to go gorge again may have something to do with it. That "resource tower under attack" is not an interesting message for most of the team also can't help. Why didn't the guy with 100 res get a hive before going Onos?
Onos at hive 1 combined with res for kills are a horrible thing to happen to the aliens. The solo aliens are winning the one on one fights and are convinced they're the ones playing the game right. But while they're eating the idiots from the other team, the marines are securing nodes and hives, and winning the strategic game. Then, after a while, the HA/shotgun/welder/GL train walks into the hive and blasts it. The alien rambos are still convinced they did things right, because they killed marines all the time, so it must be the fault of the others on the team.
There is nothing wrong with running around the map and killing marines. What is wrong, though, is avoiding teamwork, or refusing to go gorge and build stuff that benefits the whole team instead of just one player. And avoiding to attack bases, because structure killing is risky and doesn't give resources. The support roles (gorge, lerk) suffer badly. And they have a resource problem too. In their support roles, they are helping other aliens get kills without getting many themselves. Bilebomb and umbra (assuming you're lucky enough to get the second hive at all) are very strong abilities, but they don't give res for kills, and you have to rely on the resource towers (which get blasted because most of the team just doesn't care if they're under attack).
This also increases the need for sensory first, even though it's a bad chamber for taking down bases. You need to have upgrade chambers that can hide themselves, or they won't survive. Putting them at the hive should keep them safe? No. Players that don't even care if the hive itself is under attack certainly won't bother to defend some defence chambers. Who needs defence chambers anyway? Cloaking is great for ambushing rambo marines. Defence and/or movement are needed for breaking turret farms, but they don't care about such boring non-resource giving tasks.
NS 2.0 probably was intended to attract many new players. I hope they figure out how to work together or go gack to CS <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
At least in 1.04 you could get a more or less competent team on nearly every random server. Thay may not have been perfect, but at least they knew resource towers and hives should be defended.
I already read about how aliens are slaughtering the marines in well-organised clangames. On pubs (wth some positive exceptions), it's quite different. One good comm and some marines who realise running off on their own is bad (and they learn that VERY quickly), and marines win the game even though that "elite" skulk/fade/onos often picks off a more careless one.
For marines, the situation is nearly OK. Sure, you do have the few persistent rambo players who run out of base, get killed, try again, get killed, and keep repeating that until the game is over. But most marines quickly figure out it's better to stay in groups, as the period between crime and punishment is rather short (a solo marine generally doesn't last long in 2.0).
For aliens, it's a different matter. The few marine rambo players are a nice source of food for the rambo skulks, so those players who don't seem to realize they're in a team can actually do quite well for some time in the early game. Protecting gorges isn't done anymore. Hell, protecting hives isn't done anymore. Sure, some players will still try to work together. However, a bad marine team might have two or three rambos. On a random server, you already have an above-average alien team if there are three people who do want to work as a team. Going gorge is out of the question, they just want to go Onos. Who cares that a one-hive Onos is too weak to kill a turret farm? As long as they get to devour people, they're happy. Until they realise they can't use stomp, then it's "OMG stupid gorge, why didn't you get more hives?" Well, that I got killed a few times due to a lack of skulk assistance and had to spend more res to go gorge again may have something to do with it. That "resource tower under attack" is not an interesting message for most of the team also can't help. Why didn't the guy with 100 res get a hive before going Onos?
Onos at hive 1 combined with res for kills are a horrible thing to happen to the aliens. The solo aliens are winning the one on one fights and are convinced they're the ones playing the game right. But while they're eating the idiots from the other team, the marines are securing nodes and hives, and winning the strategic game. Then, after a while, the HA/shotgun/welder/GL train walks into the hive and blasts it. The alien rambos are still convinced they did things right, because they killed marines all the time, so it must be the fault of the others on the team.
There is nothing wrong with running around the map and killing marines. What is wrong, though, is avoiding teamwork, or refusing to go gorge and build stuff that benefits the whole team instead of just one player. And avoiding to attack bases, because structure killing is risky and doesn't give resources. The support roles (gorge, lerk) suffer badly. And they have a resource problem too. In their support roles, they are helping other aliens get kills without getting many themselves. Bilebomb and umbra (assuming you're lucky enough to get the second hive at all) are very strong abilities, but they don't give res for kills, and you have to rely on the resource towers (which get blasted because most of the team just doesn't care if they're under attack).
This also increases the need for sensory first, even though it's a bad chamber for taking down bases. You need to have upgrade chambers that can hide themselves, or they won't survive. Putting them at the hive should keep them safe? No. Players that don't even care if the hive itself is under attack certainly won't bother to defend some defence chambers. Who needs defence chambers anyway? Cloaking is great for ambushing rambo marines. Defence and/or movement are needed for breaking turret farms, but they don't care about such boring non-resource giving tasks.
NS 2.0 probably was intended to attract many new players. I hope they figure out how to work together or go gack to CS <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
At least in 1.04 you could get a more or less competent team on nearly every random server. Thay may not have been perfect, but at least they knew resource towers and hives should be defended.
I already read about how aliens are slaughtering the marines in well-organised clangames. On pubs (wth some positive exceptions), it's quite different. One good comm and some marines who realise running off on their own is bad (and they learn that VERY quickly), and marines win the game even though that "elite" skulk/fade/onos often picks off a more careless one.
Comments
thanks for sharing.
wlibaers, what you're seeing is basically a repeat of NS's infancy. Noone wants to work together. Give it time, and the pubs will slowly gain more cohesion
"Give it time."
What I find ppl wont do is:
As soon as the round starts go gorge, 1 gorge caps the Nozzle and the other puts up a pair of OCs or 1 OC and 1 Sensory.
Every game, I run, get to a Nod and gorge to put it up, I find that I am one of the only ones who will do this on most pubs.
Skulks wont guard you anymore, I got lucky the last few times and asked someone to be my protection and as long as I kept them healed they kept working for me!
I agree with alot of what you have posted but I laso find that its fading away with time.
GIVE NS 2.0 TWO MORE WEEKS! Then you won't see people acting like CS players or 1.04 player as much.
It takes time to learn such a complex game as NS 2.0!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->mATTHEW KELLY: too long; didnt read. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go get some Ritalin, maybe then you will be able to make it through a paragraph.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
You do realise that is EXACTLY how 1.04 was, right?
NS 2.0 probably was intended to attract many new players. I hope they figure out how to work together or go gack to CS <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Another post with CS bashing. Anyone mind to share their reasonings for hating CS? It seems like most of you just seem to jump on the bandwagon of hatred. CS doesn't make people stupid - people do.
Back to the point, I have played a few good teamwork games in NS on alien teams. Once you get just one person who wants teamwork, things magically pull together.
I see more teamwork problems on the marine team. WHY DO PEOPLE SIT THERE FOR 5 MINUTES IN FRONT OF THE ARMORY??? AARRRGHHH!!!
You do realise that is EXACTLY how 1.04 was, right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, it isn't. There were no res-for-kills in 1.04. The concept of individual res is great, and I love it, but as a frequent gorge who stays out of the action as much as possible, I think team sharing of KILL RESOURCES is a possible fix to a few problems (people complaining of higher lifeforms too early, gorges having no resources to build anything, etc). RFK is the main source of alien income in 2.0 it seems. Maybe distributing it would help balance a little?
EDIT: Silly me, I never bothered to finish my dang thought.... what a retard
I won't say its imbalanced, because its just a matter of knowing how to combat sensory, but the fact is that the majority of people who hop in the comm chair do not know how, and so we have entire map control by aliens pretty much because of a few well placed sensory chambers. Maybe lowering the radius in which they cloak things would help. Or just time. But right now playing marine on pubs is frustrating more than anything because it degenerates into sensory whoring, and its not fun playing around with people who dont know what they are doing in that situation.
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Yes Indeed, CS is an extremely good game.
There are many idiots playing ns too. Its number however is much smaller than compared to cs because NS has a drastically smaller community.
And your comment about "dumb" server mods. Hah. Let's take a look at many "dumb" NS modifications. Also, the WC3 mod is pure genious, and incredibly fun. Seems like you're on the bandwagon of hatred.
NS 2.0 probably was intended to attract many new players. I hope they figure out how to work together or go gack to CS <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Another post with CS bashing. Anyone mind to share their reasonings for hating CS? It seems like most of you just seem to jump on the bandwagon of hatred. CS doesn't make people stupid - people do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right about that. The problem is not CS but those playing it. Just like in many servers now. In theory, you could have a good game of CS. Go on some random CS server and meet reality. (well, you might find a place where it's fun to play, but the odds are a bit low)
I don't hate CS. It just happens to be a convenient way to refer to the biggest collection of multiplayer gaming fools on the net.
Why? Because I'm the best damn fade player I know, and I've repeatedly taken out squads of 4 marines (Once, I took out 4 marines who had HMGs, shotuns, etc.) in less then a few seconds. 1 res node, or stopping the marines and depleting their cash?
Why? Because I'm the best damn fade player I know, and I've repeatedly taken out squads of 4 marines (Once, I took out 4 marines who had HMGs, shotuns, etc.) in less then a few seconds. 1 res node, or stopping the marines and depleting their cash? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes but if you went gorge and dropped a RES tower, thats one less RT that another gorge has to drop, freeing up that gorge to drop the needed defense around that RT. Then more RTs can be capped and before long you would have Res comming out the bling blang and could go fade a half dozen times in a row!
Getting res for kills is great so make sure that instead of being a greedy Onos, you give up that 100 res and help out your team by making a part of the map impassible for the marines till the HA/SGs roll around. then you will get your res back faster and you will be able to go Onos again.
Its not always about Who can go Onos, but helping your team control the map, giving you players a strangle hold on the marines, promoting Many onoses!
1: securing res.
2: killing the enemy and capturing enemy res.
while they may overlap slightly, thats the way i see it after a week.
the divide can be recognised as when there are no more free res towers.
(in tight games; im not talking about newb servers here) its no good saving for fade when there are free res towers that need securing.
you need the maximum income if you want to afford (and this is the important part) <b>more than one wave of fades</b>.
its no good putting all your res into one fade/oni to not have any back up res system, at which point you slowly die.
i think new players just need to accept this! and all will be not as bad!
(yes, fade rushing will have a place im sure, but right now, we need the majority of players more dedicated to res capture).
Maybe only a percentage of res could be transferred, like 75% so 25% of the res is wasted when transferring to another player.
If you play on a server with competent players on both teams, aliens will 9 times out of 10 come out on top.
This is the marine win/loss ratio that Flayra quoted, so I feel justified in using it myself. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And those who say: "OMG 2.0 IS BALANCED U NUBS THEY PT'D IT FOR 4 MONTH0rZ!!1ONE", you are wrong. The CURRENT version of 2.0 was only pt'ed for 4 days (so I hear, forgive me if i'm wrong), so it is fully possible that a few imbalances could creep out.
It was just unfortunate that the tweaks in the final version caused such major inbalances <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
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I used to love cs but I became infected with the intolerance and short temper the games nature seems to breed. I am guilty of being abnoxious on cs far to often, but alas im cured now (I matured a little) but its very easy to start throwing insults and being rude in an environment where you cant see the people your talking too.
When you die on cs, you pay for it, instead of playing in the round and carrying on, your reduced to spectating and being dead.
Thats the thing about cs, you actually PAY for dying in the fact that your game ends for a minute or two and your deprived of playing for a short time, thus the game generates a lot of hate and anger among players because you lost some fun because SOMEONE ELSE shot you.
The ns community is smaller but its also nicer, cs is a simple pickup and play game and although it can be very very tactical at high levels it still requires a lot less thought, and most importantly teamwork than ns.
In NS you NEED your team to survive, in cs its just a way of earning a little more cash so you can buy guns to increase your score.
I love cs, especially at clan level, but its deffinitely bad for my mental health with the amount of stress it can cause people.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Another post with CS bashing. Anyone mind to share their reasonings for hating CS? It seems like most of you just seem to jump on the bandwagon of hatred. CS doesn't make people stupid - people do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for this, where do you think these idiots come from? Starcraft? No, they come from the most popular online game in the world, which they can easily use to play NS.