Onos Vs. Ha
Tempus
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12540Members
Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12540Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is that all this game is anymore?</div> Yes, yes, I know, adjust to the new strats, give it time, etc.
But I'm sorry, that is all I see in this game's future. Due to the upgraded and accelerated nature of the marine's tech, nearly all of the alien's evolutions have been rendered obsolete. I mean, skulks have no chance against anything other than a basic marine, and after 5 minutes of game time, there is no such thing. Skulks can't take down res nodes (electricity), they can't even run through a room with turrets, they can only offer target practice to shotties, and HA's just laugh at them.
Lerks are another pathetic creature now. Sure, they can spore (until HA, which takes about 5 minutes), and they can umbra (as long as they are far away, because they survive under fire for about 2/3 of a second), but that is about it.
Fades? Oh, those sorry creatures. Without acid rocket at the 3rd hive, they might as well just not exist. Sure, they can blink in and take a few swipes at whatever with their 2-inch ranged claws, but just 2 shotgun blasts and they are done!
So we are left with Onos, which is really the only creature that has a chance to live more than 2 whole seconds in front of turrets and/or marine fire. Thus my conclusion that this game is just about Onos vs. HA.
Really, I'm not intending to bash the game at all. I've spent so many hours on 1.04, and waited with baited breath for 2.0. It just seems that in an effort to make the game more dynamic and accelerated, the developers didn't anticipate the other effects that would have.
In the meantime, I will keep an open mind. These are just my opinions, and I offer them constructively. Perhaps I will discover that I am wrong, and everything will be good. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But I'm sorry, that is all I see in this game's future. Due to the upgraded and accelerated nature of the marine's tech, nearly all of the alien's evolutions have been rendered obsolete. I mean, skulks have no chance against anything other than a basic marine, and after 5 minutes of game time, there is no such thing. Skulks can't take down res nodes (electricity), they can't even run through a room with turrets, they can only offer target practice to shotties, and HA's just laugh at them.
Lerks are another pathetic creature now. Sure, they can spore (until HA, which takes about 5 minutes), and they can umbra (as long as they are far away, because they survive under fire for about 2/3 of a second), but that is about it.
Fades? Oh, those sorry creatures. Without acid rocket at the 3rd hive, they might as well just not exist. Sure, they can blink in and take a few swipes at whatever with their 2-inch ranged claws, but just 2 shotgun blasts and they are done!
So we are left with Onos, which is really the only creature that has a chance to live more than 2 whole seconds in front of turrets and/or marine fire. Thus my conclusion that this game is just about Onos vs. HA.
Really, I'm not intending to bash the game at all. I've spent so many hours on 1.04, and waited with baited breath for 2.0. It just seems that in an effort to make the game more dynamic and accelerated, the developers didn't anticipate the other effects that would have.
In the meantime, I will keep an open mind. These are just my opinions, and I offer them constructively. Perhaps I will discover that I am wrong, and everything will be good. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Try playing for a bit longer! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
You seem to be having a CS flash back or something?
What the hell does that mean?
Lerks are definately not pathetic, have you ever tried (at 3 hives) primal screaming and using spikes? It takes out a rine really fast. Pretty fun to do it on caged when they dont turd-it farm.
Ever tried spiking marines that are beeing med spammed?
Say bye bye xx res
Try that with an other class <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But I'm sorry, that is all I see in this game's future. Due to the upgraded and accelerated nature of the marine's tech, nearly all of the alien's evolutions have been rendered obsolete. I mean, skulks have no chance against anything other than a basic marine, and after 5 minutes of game time, there is no such thing. Skulks can't take down res nodes (electricity), they can't even run through a room with turrets, they can only offer target practice to shotties, and HA's just laugh at them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Vanilla marines don't disapear. Sometimes half of the team may be an HA train, but definitly not all of it. Skulks can take on HA's, just not very well. If a few skuks run into a HA train, they are doomed. But a skulk war of attrition(IE:HAs trying to take hive) is somewhat of a different story. Your still getting bites in, and eventually an HA may topple over. If there is other alien types helping out, although mainly skulks fighting, it's not so hopeless.
Of course lone skulks offer shottie target practice. Shottie is a 10 res boost over the LMG. A lone shottie might be in trouble against 3 skulks though.
5 minutes till HA? It's possible, but extremely common in most games? Even if they do get HA, if it's only 5 minutes into the game, they are probably hurting for res and taking a bit of a gamble.
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Lerks are another pathetic creature now. Sure, they can spore (until HA, which takes about 5 minutes), and they can umbra (as long as they are far away, because they survive under fire for about 2/3 of a second), but that is about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, HA don't show up in droves at the 5 minute mark. That, and the fact that at 5 minutes most of the team would not be HA. I thought Lerks had more armor than in 1.04. Could be wrong though. Lerks are susposed to be used as a support unit anyways.
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Fades? Oh, those sorry creatures. Without acid rocket at the 3rd hive, they might as well just not exist. Sure, they can blink in and take a few swipes at whatever with their 2-inch ranged claws, but just 2 shotgun blasts and they are done!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 shottie blasts? Maybe more like 3? Can't remember what their health/armor is. To me, it seems like there are plenty of players who are good with fade melee. Some players will probably say so in this thread. Fades still provide an alternative to the die really fast skulks.
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So we are left with Onos, which is really the only creature that has a chance to live more than 2 whole seconds in front of turrets and/or marine fire. Thus my conclusion that this game is just about Onos vs. HA.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except that you assume the game will usually become an HA and turret fest 5 minutes in. You also assume that other players don't know how to use the other classes good.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A team of HAs 4+ that knows how to use welders = dead alien pub team at any time, unless they've 3 hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Welder use really prolongs their life, but there is no gurantees. A 4+ HA team could have their luck run out eventually, even with proper welder use.
If you have 3 hives the skulks xenozide attack is very effective even against HA's. With a little Onos support you can easily finish them off.
There's allways a counter-attack against <b>if</b> you teched on the same level as the other team.
But i must admit its easier to run around as a bunch of Rines equipted with HA/HMG/Welder.
cya
Scylla
Also, Im sure you can look in other threads and find people saying that marines are weaker than aliens now, what with the 10 minute 'microwaveable' Onos Stomping and Devouring them. I used to be in this camp, then I took other peoples advice and decided to give 2.0 a few more games. Under a competent Commander, and with teamwork, Marines are VERY powerful. The same holds true for aliens ( the teamwork part, obviously not the commander part! ).
I like 2.0. I like it a lot.
-Cpl. Hicks
Nonetheless, the power of lerks is early, and a nasty one it is - and even midgame, they can serve as excellent support - spores to flush marines out, umbra to cover turret assaults, spike to snipe vulnerable targets.
Onos vs HA is the standard pubby game yes - because at the moment the onos and devour are new and fresh and exciting. As skills improve, you will see things change a bit. An alien team pretty much has to always have onos on it to survive, but if the entire team can afford to be onos, then that team has likely already won regardless.
Fades seem like an excellent and skillful class to play, but I must agree they are too weak for what you pay. They should be slightly cheaper (45 or 43) to compensate for their serious lack of ability in normal combat. On the other hand, they are the most efficient turret killers available short of a full onos assault. Lerk+fade == mincemeat of earlygame turret farms. Once the defenders have been gassed out, the fade can make very short work of turrets thanks to blink and metab.
The one thing that WONT change is the dominence of HA as the game breaker for marines. Jetpacks are not only nerfed, but simply far too useless at the moment. I understand all the changes made, save only that the jetpack ceasing to JET you upwards if you release jump in mid air and then hold it again is not only unintuitive, it is downright silly. I can't see a jetpack user really holding down the button the entire time for a spastic leap forwards before landing sporadically...
15 res, 35 research cost, weapon-weighted flight model, speed cap, fuel reduction, framrate bug fix, all fair enough. I think the jetpack has got the idea, man. But add to that the inability to actually FLY most of the time and you have a fairly large waste of res. Yes, I have won a game or two with JPs. But they are simply a disgusting inefficiency for the price considering that they serve as no real counter, deterrent or defensive or offensive weapon or utility whatsoever...
But just let them restore you to flying if you have the fuel and press the damn button, and they will serve their niche competantly once again I am sure, regardless of other balance changes.
Bravo. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for myself, I have adopted a new mantra: "Here's to 2.04. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->" This is the finest computer game I have ever played, which may say more about me than about the game, but that's the way I feel, and nothing about that feeling has changed now that I'm playing 2.0. Do I want things nerfed? Yes. Do I want things changed? Yes. Do I have any doubt whatsoever that the selfless developers who GAVE us such a great mod will again bring us a solution that lacks only the IV cord we all want to feed it into our veins? Hell NO. Good things are worth waiting for, and it's only a matter of time before 2.x's quality far exceeds both its current quality and whatever quality we all associated with 1.x.
In the meantime, I applaud threads like this that help the players get the most out of what we have so far. After all, a large part of the solution to today's problems is our ability to innovatively LEARN THE GAME, not just the developers innovative "corrections".
Be well.
Wyzcrak
Agreed. the very name NATURAL SELECTION implies change (duh, look it up if you really need to).
@all:
Debating balance issues so soon? Just go play already.
from me (aliens):
Skulks are fun. mmm, cloaking and zeno...
Gorges rock. mmm, super-spit. Die rambo!!!
Lerks own. umbra your Onos buddies, they are unstoppable. Scream and the spike someone, they die almost instantly. Spore, well hey, fun times.
Fade. ahhh, the fade. *blink* *smack smack* *blink* one marine dead, another res tick for me. ahhh. Fades don't even need 2 or 3 hives, blink and swipe are enough. Oh, and a regenerating adrenaline fade=flying heal-fest. wheee!
Onos. I only like them with celerity. Otherwise too slow, i get mowed down.
All the new upgrades: So many useful options. soooo sweet. Scent of Fear=godlike. Alien motion tracking, whoda thunk it?
Yeah I wish there was more to it.....need more strategies, see it should be like paper rock scissors. And the good players would cheat by peaking and see what the enemy has and counter it, alot like StarCraft (which this game was often compared to, for the RTS part anyway). There's only 3 choices, normal foot marine < everything, HA, and JP (practically useless now, atleast for attacking, these are still good for running and hiding end game). So the real only solution is HA's, which aren't that fun anymore ;(
Now onos' are pretty easy to prevent, if everyone rushes alien RT's at the start they can't afford more RTs very fast, just keep killing alien RT's, more important than ever now. No RTs = No Onos, me and my friend ramo'd a buncha RT's one game, only saw 1 onos in a 20 min game.
I took down Cargo hive by myself with a shotty and JP, granted I had some med spam but only one or two.. but still it was a good memory of old times <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You just have to get the feel of the new JP and it works just as good as the old!
As for anti-onos weapons... I don't know..... maybe... something I'll have to try for sure
Now, obviously if I ran in alone I'd be mowed down in the blink of an eye. I just stuck behind him and let him by my bullet catcher until I could get around their ankles.
The other Aliens aside from Onos need to be smart in their battle, or else they won't stand much of a chance against a fully upgraded Marine.
After that round i decided to go marines just for fun, but we actually had a very good comm and some decent players for a pub server. I still didn't think we had a chance, since i've never seen marines win on mineshaft. 'Till today that is...
Yes it was a case of HA marine trains, but we had to do alot before we got to HA. First we put mines outside our base so that any early skulk rushers would just blow up, which work well, then we moved otu and ended up securing one hive and 6 res nodes! All we had to do was move in two squads, each with one shotgunner who guarded while the other 2 or 3 built.
After all that we tech up to lv2 wep/armor and got hmg/gl going. We took out any alien res nodes we could find until HA was ready. Then the fun began. By the way, at this point there had been no onos yet, we honestly shut down ALL the aliens attempts to get res, and these were pretty decent aliens, they weren't nubs or anything like that. We moved into sewer and got a little outpost going while the hmg guys kept the skulks off us. After the GL HA's (one was me) moved in and took out any OCs present. Then it was just a matter of blasting the hive away. We put up a seige but didn't end up using it till the hive was down <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
At this point we saw our first onos but as luck would have ti he ran into me and a shotty HA who was with me. He killed the shotty but as he ran away to heal he got blown up by my nades (luck shot i might add <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->). Thus we shut down their last hope, and the alien's f4ed as we moved into their final hive...sad really. We had some great teamwork and a mix of all marine weapons.
So really the game isn't all HA vs Onos. If you take out all the alien res nodes you'd probably only see one or two onos the whole game! Especially in big games with 8 on 8. Trust me, once all marine teams work together and don't rambo, watch out for each other and learn when to use turrets/phase, you'll probably never see an onos, and thus all your HA marines won't become a snack for the armor cows <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Huh? Thru a metamod plugin? Why are they doing this?
It's not disabled by the admins. It's a bug in the metamod, I think I read it in the faq.
OMG, have u tried blink + lvl 3 adrenaline?
its like psycho speed,and infinite too (basicalling like having a faster version of "fly")
its so easy to run in,swipe,and just blink out...u just need THE skills
And to comment on the <b><i>thread topic</i></b>, I'd like to say that the original poster's were mostly correct from my viewpoint. Tell me this: How many 2.0 games that didn't end with an early-ish rush hae you seen where the marines didn't tech HA? That's right-little to none. In fact, it is obscenely rare for any other strat than the welder train to be used in 2.0 (so far at least). With the nerf of the Jetpack, the strategery of NS has seemed to dwindle...there is little variation in the endgames I've seen so far.
Here's hoping that folks will begin to innovate! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally, I like 2.0 just the way it is. With a bad/good team the games can go either way. Same goes for anything else, really. It just all depends on how you take an action plan, and then make it happen. If the plan goes horribly wrong, your team is screwed. Just the way I view it. Sometimes it has to do with the map aswell. But that is only if the team makes it that way. Comes down to communication, and teamplay most of the time.
HA! I can be 'leet! I've killed an HA as a gorge.
I had just finished putting up a res tower in a tight little area when two HA's came in. Luckily I'd put the sensory tower up first. One was playing guard, the other started knifing the tower. I snuck up between them and started heal spraying and strafing around. The one knifing the tower got stuck in there while the second one didn't seem to be able to draw a bead on me. Next thing I knew, the one stuck in the RT fell down dead.
Then I died.
But it was still cool.