Official "i Love 2.0 Balance Thread!"

Majin · August 2003

I think that 2.0 is fully balanced, its the players who arnt yet!
Its been out for 4 days, try giving it a month before you make balance threads!

Forlorn · August 2003

Hmm... I dunno if it's completely balanced, some exploits that need to be ironed out.

However, I can faithfully say this:

Balance is very close. In addition, the game is mad fun. That is what is really important.

Look at CS for example. The game is one of the most unbalanced out there. Yet 100,000 people play it, because they have so much fun with it.

Majin · August 2003

yeah but CS is a POS
NS is near perfect and so very fun... if only the sexy new background music didn't break up on maps like HERA!

kwitcherbitchin · August 2003

um, i'm guessing you people saying 2.0 is balanced haven't played in any clan matches yet.

with two evenly skilled clans, aliens will win almost every time. there isn't much marines can do at the moment short of spawn camping or a 2 hive lockdown with large turret farms.

SuB · August 2003

2.0 Balance > 1.04 Balance

That's good enough for me... I'm more excited about the future of NS than I am about the present (in a way), so I don't really care if it's got some in-balances...

I would however hold off on specific balance considerations for a few months until I feel I'm playing on servers where everyone understands the new found dynamics.

MrKNifey · August 2003

It only seems unbalanced because marines are confused with the new release, and as was already stated, aliens are much more straightforward than marines. The minute marines organize into groups, they kill everything...period....even themselves <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>. I've seen it myself. The balance is fine, it's just people aren't playing their corresponding side correctly.

wlibaers · August 2003

Well, who cares about balance now? Too early, and lots of new toys to play with before worrying about balance. Get good at alien solo play and small teams, then we can worry about balance. If it's balanced or not doesn't matter during a time when many people haven't even figured out that fades can blink into vents, spores don't work on HA,... When playing marine I even killed a gorge that was fighting me with bilebomb <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> (I'm pretty sure that guy now thinks bilebomb is a crappy weapon).

To be honest, I don't really know how it works either. I get the basics, but some stuff... Like the resource system (the one time I quoted the changlog about the resource system, someone pointed out there was a change making that part of the latest and greatest changelog invalid), relative effectiveness of regen and cara,...

Terakai2000 · August 2003

2.0 is pretty well balanced imho. I played games where marines came back after aliens rushed 3 hives and both teams had equal res. and also a game where in the first hour the aliens had one hive due to a tought two hive lock down and because aliens had a res advantage they were able to push back and win.

I agree that commanders have to get more experience with 2.0 and adapt to the new alien strategies. I think most marines are catching onto countering sensories with obs and scanning; however, I don't think marines are used to the more capable gorges esp. with movements as a first hive. I'm still seeing marines chasing after gorges and getting pwned by the spit.

Also I think aliens are quicker at adapting to 2.0 because their resource system is so different that if they didn't quickly adapt to a more team based buildling strategy then all would be lost. Marines, on the other hand, have basically the same groundwork as before so new strategies and coutners do not seem to spring out as fast.

Guys just give it time, it may be frustrating now but believe in the PTs and Vets that its going to balance out better when people get a feel of it all.

Mitternacht · August 2003

All i have to say is that marines should have to be nearly half dead before being able to eat them, thus why onos would want scent of fear instead of cloaking making it more difficult to eat someone..cause its still way to..yeah <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> ...well the person could be like at 3/4 health left or something..but being able to instantly eat someone and redem away is still way to unfair..as they can instantly do it again 30 seconds later..but if they are hurt they who gives a fock <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

or..the rine has to be parasited <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> (not really a good idea..) in order to be eatten <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> hrmm a onos with a skulk comrad <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> yeah..i think you get the picture

MeLeNkO · August 2003

the new version is perfectly balanced but thats my opneion

Mitternacht · August 2003

i mean im saying its alright and all..but the onos devour causes loads of alien stacking <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> and i used to see it for rines..and i was always alien in 1.04.. btw, first time i comm'ed on 2.0 ..I WON! BAHAHAHA BEAT THAT was only my second hour playing too! anyways, i think its fair and all..but it should be a little more difficult for a onos to get food..

Tonzak · August 2003

I thought all balance discussion was being immediately locked because "no one can really know the balance yet." It seems like what they meant is "you can say the balance is good, just not that it's bad."

boobs! · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 3 2003, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Aug 4 2003, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Bango. As opposed to our fewer than 30 straight playtesters. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Quality over quantity <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
:o OMG dai

s3rv 0ps 4 lyf3

Corrado · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 4 2003, 01:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Skillzilla_ @ Aug 4 2003, 01:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Pubs think it's balanced, Clanners say it's horribly unbalanced. I'm a clanner... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Interesting point of view. Might I introduce you to our 160 veterans...? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Talking to 2 of the members of fwd last night, they believe that the game is unbalanced, and they felt that not enough clan games occured. If there are no clan games, how can the game be balanced for clan play? Well, no games means great imbalance, and it means that alien teams can come back and win after a failed 5 gorge 2 skulk rush...that is seriously messed up, and an issue that needs to be looked into.

Public play is balanced, clan play is not.

DarkFrost · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SuB] @ Aug 4 2003, 08:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2.0 Balance > 1.04 Balance

That's good enough for me... I'm more excited about the future of NS than I am about the present (in a way), so I don't really care if it's got some in-balances...

I would however hold off on specific balance considerations for a few months until I feel I'm playing on servers where everyone understands the new found dynamics.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
rofl, 2.0 balance is oposite of 1.04 balance <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
Instead of marine lvl2 tech being over powered, its the alien hive 2 tech that is, HOWEVER unlike 1.04 where lerks could effectively counter JP HMG, Ive spoken to some vets and there in the time scale marines simply cannot counter the alien 2 hive assault.
You like very strong aliens huh <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

As for the topic starters comment, I believe they know the balance is not perfect, however the DEV team deserves a holiday, dont u think?

matso · August 2003

Personally, I can't decide which side is overpowered ... shotty carrying marines smacking down anything-alien in a few secs, or lerk-supported heavy aliens...

Guess it comes down to teamwork and skill.

How sad.

Littlejerry · August 2003

I have seen both teams dominate, and both teams just get their **** kicked. I have seen both teams come back from nearly losing and take the game.

Its all about teamates, communication, and adjusting to the situation.

Mythr1l · August 2003

<span style='color:white'>Swear filter dodging *and* personal attacks in one post? Keep it up, and watch how fast my boot connects with your behind.</span>

torment_j · August 2003

<span style='color:white'>I have two boots. You're certainly welcome to the second one, if you keep this up.</span>

Mythr1l · August 2003

<b>** Play nice or leave. Last warning. **</b>

Tonzak · August 2003

I still have not seen an answer as to why the same reasoning used to silence all criticism is not being applied to posts of praise. The reasoning applies to criticism and praise just the same: "No one can say anything about 2.0 right now because you have to play it more first."

And why do we have to play it more first? Because 2.0 was tested for four months, it is already perfect, we just have to discover this! And why can't we just post our balance concerns and have our ignorance cleared up by the informative posts of vets and playtesters? I don't know.

Personally, I'd like to see some clans who have had a chance to scrim 2.0 to death by now (I know there are several) play against the playtesters and vets. When the playtesters and vets pwn with their secret 2.0 strategies and show us how it's balance, we'll ALL benefit and we'll ALL be able to enjoy 2.0 RIGHT NOW instead of having to REINVENT THE WHEEL THAT THE PLAYTESTERS MUST ALREADY POSESS FOR 2.0 TO BE RELEASED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

nikt29 · August 2003

Tonzak has right, give us match "good clan" VS "development super VET team"

TheWizard · August 2003

I love the fact that I can join two different servers with the same number of players and get two different gaming experiences.

Why? Because it is actually balanced. No one tactic is supreme (as of yet) so either team can take the prize. All it takes is for more teamwork on one side to make the difference.

Minstrel_Knight · August 2003

Make that 23 alien victories to 3 marine ones. Take that as you will.

If I recall correctly two of the marine wins were from shotgun rushes. The third was where they only had one onos who either miraculously managed to die with redemption or didn't have redemption.

wlibaers · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (nikt29 @ Aug 4 2003, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Tonzak has right, give us match "good clan" VS "development super VET team"  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Demo's from one vet team against another vet team would be more interesting I think. For the really powerful tactice to appear both teams should be experienced. A very good clan, but newbies to NS, would probably get ripped to pieces by those who have been training it for months, and the game would be likely to end before the realy interesting tactics become necessary.

Ahnteis · August 2003

/me wubs 2.0

DarkFrost · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tonzak @ Aug 4 2003, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Personally, I'd like to see some clans who have had a chance to scrim 2.0 to death by now (I know there are several) play against the playtesters and vets. When the playtesters and vets pwn with their secret 2.0 strategies and show us how it's balance, we'll ALL benefit and we'll ALL be able to enjoy 2.0 RIGHT NOW instead of having to REINVENT THE WHEEL THAT THE PLAYTESTERS MUST ALREADY POSESS FOR 2.0 TO BE RELEASED IN THE FIRST PLACE. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well, we played FWD (a vet clan, arguably the best clan in europe), we drew 2 each, and guess what, 4 consecutive Alien wins....

That what u wanted to know?

*edit* also, i am led to believe the CURRENT NS2.0 was only tested for 4 days, and that was for bugs *edit*

keelem · August 2003

I havn't played many games yet, but out of the 4 or 5 games that I've commed, marines have won.

Clint · August 2003

The game is fine. It just comes down to the following:

* Teamwork
* Skill
* Communication

Get over it people, 2.0 is fine. Adapt, and then say something.

Aolphobia · August 2003

Just wanted to say that this is the most balanced NS version yet. I have no complaints at all. Both sides are superbly done. Excellent job and keep up the great work!

Official "i Love 2.0 Balance Thread!"

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