New Resource System
LeMort
Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13896Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13896Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Is dissapointing at best</div> Is it just me or do you get the same res (when on aliens) with 1 res node that you do with 10? When I am playing I always get res extremely SLOOOWLY no matter how many res nozzles we have capped. In 1.04 when on aliens, when you capped res you got more res, in 2.0 when on aliens, you just have to run around killing a bunch of marines to get decent resources. It seems like capping res on aliens is a waste of time. As for the marines, Capping res IS worthwhile, as all their res goes to where it belongs. All in all, I think aliens are getting screwed. I understand the whole res for kills thing, but killing marines shouldn't be the only practical way to get resources.
Comments
Gentlemen...
We've had NS for 4 days now...
4 days is nothing compared to the countless hours we've played 1.04, and it's nothing towards the months spent on developing and playtesting ns 2.0
If you think it's unbalanced, well then you are trying thw wrong strategies and you are still living in a world called 1.04, or maybe we aren't all the amazing players we think we are <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Point is, none of us can say anything about the game being even yes/no, we can only do that after at least a couple of month's time when we've had as much experience as the vets/pt's have now.
With that I end my rant, and I do hope we can get rid of threads like this soon, even if they are just normal discussions where people say things that can be argumented with examples form the game itself.
My point:
Shut j00z traps j00z n00bzorz, cos j00z d00z n00t nooz w00t y00r t00king ab00t....
*ahem*
(my 1337speak sucks... I know... It was intentional <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
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That's my opinion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Same goes for the resmodel, we simply haven't played enough or tried enough methods
Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Therefore all structures and most gestations are cheaper.
This only makes the time difference between Lerking and Onosing larger, enough time for both teams capping and securing some resnodes with structures and upgrades.
I'm a very assaulting skulk player, so I tend to get loads of res quickly, usually evolve into gorge and build lots of structures for the rest of my team.
After, suicide into skulk, get 100 res, go onos, wait around defending our buildings until a sufficient strike force of aliens has amassed then take out the marines.
That's about it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
firstly; i agree the resourse system for aliens is rather annoying.. not only that, i think it is unfair to any new players to the game due to the res for kill implemented.. a new player wont get that many kills and thus have slow resourse.. being a gorg and building stuctures for the team (eg : upgrades), now takes not only alot of patience but alot of generosity too..
i have to mention, every game i have played of NS 2.0 has been too long, no matter what team i play the game drags on to the point of people leaving the server and the other team winning by default.. this is probably just a teathing problem. but when 70% of the aliens have redemption and go in for the kill only to be sent back to the hive to make the same run again; its killing game play..
other than those two factors of 2.0 .. i love it, the new graphics are great, when i first played it i spent the first game just watching skulks strafe up walls
anywayz i'll leave it at that..
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Bah, my third game on Friday, I went gorge immediately, permagorged, and was the first to onos by locking down Hera entrance with ocs and scs (they went towards maint first). So, pah! It's possible!
The only comparison I could give is this : I was used to the upgrades in warcraft 2 being what they were. When I played for the first time Starcraft, I found that upgrading weapons to lvl 2 took an eternity. Now, heh, I find it fast enough.
Just a matter of adaptation.
The difference between 1.04 and 2.0 alien res system is that you no longer get resources for doing nothing. (well, that and the gorge change)
You get 1 rp for every RT. 7 RT in a map, ~7 on a team ... you get 1 rp a tick.
I'll post this again when they're less critical of balance, but this is the OBVIOUS flaw I noticed: If the aliens are beginning to win, the res system lets them landslide a victory.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The same amount of res with 1 node as with 10....
LMAO!!!!
I know the comm gets the same res but it goes into one pool, I dont think it's fair
CRITICISM!!
OMG! OMG! LOCK!! LOCK!!
As long as this post stays a discussion rather than a whiney *****-session, it'll stay open.
The res system is certainly different in 2.0 -- so how do you adapt to it?
<b>Marines</b>
Res pool receives 1 res per click * number of marines * number of res nodes
<b>Aliens</b>
Personal Res increases by 1 res per click * number of res nodes
This is the only fair way to evenly distribute res among players and make sure that large alien teams can afford personal items and every marine gets two cars in his garage and a chicken in his pot.
Last night, a game was played where the marines quickly took out the alien res nodes and left them with none. The aliens did not get another resource the rest of the game, and nobody had enough res to build another node.
Game over, eh? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
The more interaction is a good thing but, there is still more interaction for a smart marine team. Have you noticed that with 25 res for each alien thats enough to go gorge and drop a res tower? Thats like 6-10 RT's at the start, if you don't get on the offensive very early you'll be seeing onos' alot faster than you want. Me and my friend rambo'd 5 res nodes for aliens, bringing them from 6 to 1, didn't see but 1 onos the whole game. The reason you see lame onos' in packs so early is because noone takes down enough alien RT's, not a good idea.
So the interaction between each side would still remain for the team that is smart enough to know what it takes to win. I want the value of RT's back ;( Don't get me wrong, more RT's definately helps but not as much as it should. It not easy for an inexperienced team to hold more than 2 RT's.
I heard it's just wasted...
Res for kills. Hive res. You should still be getting res, just very slowly... In 1.04, we have in fact come back from such situations, though it is VERY difficult.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thats like 6-10 RT's at the start, if you don't get on the offensive very early you'll be seeing onos' alot faster than you want.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think, when Greenseggsandham said there might be a few, uncaught problems due to the removal of res activation time... He may have meant this. Not sure myself. However, aggression works out well, we pulled a 6v2 res ratio very fast by using shotguns to smack their gorges and res towers around the other night.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't get me wrong, more RT's definately helps but not as much as it should.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it wasn't for how hard it is for pub aliens to break turret farms, I imagine this would be different. As it is, I find RTs quite important... Falling down to even 2 can really smack a marine team around, which is now unable to fully equip quickly and efficiently, or turret farm hives in a hurry after taking them down, etc...
Yet as a skulk I can usually hit 100 in 5-7 minutes.
<b>Marines</b>
Res pool receives 1 res per click * number of marines * number of res nodes
<b>Aliens</b>
Personal Res increases by 1 res per click * number of res nodes
This is the only fair way to evenly distribute res among players and make sure that large alien teams can afford personal items and every marine gets two cars in his garage and a chicken in his pot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations, you just described the 1.04 resource system.
Unfortunately, so much of that marines costs (ie, everything except marine personal equipment) are independent of team size that you get a very narrow range of teamsizes possible for balanced games. In 1.04, larger games had marines with such huge incomes that the marine commander couldn't spend it fast enough. Conversely, in small games (< 5v5) marines were unable to tech at all before the aliens teched up.
So far, it seems 2.0 has a more balanced resource system. The slower alien resource flow in larger games seems to be compensated somewhat by the inability of the marines to properly equip their marines with extra equipment, as well as the larger alien initial resource pool. In extremly small games (<5v5), the marines are still disadvantaged, but NS isn't supposed to be playable at smaller than 5v5 anyhow.
Yes, it's just you. With 10 nodes you get 10 times as much res as you would with 1. I don't think that's a hard concept.
As for an imbalance with alien res splitting while marines get to pool it.. I used to think so too in 1.04, but I think it's better in 2.0 now. In a big game you can more easily get and defend more nodes with more gorges, and in a small game you(usually) get less nodes but it splits more favorably.
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Ya <i>THINK?!</i>
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