<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 06:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 06:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Scinet+Jul 29 2003, 06:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scinet @ Jul 29 2003, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 05:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 2) Religion is not what makes religion stupid. Mindless fundamentalism is what makes a religious organization stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To be a bit more harsh, religion is what makes faith stupid. I have no problem with people who want to believe in God, Allah, Shiva, Some-Beastly-Thing-That-Looks-Like-Shrubbery, or the tiny elf spirits who dwell in donut land (the ones that poke the holes in the said comestibles). What irks me however is when that faith is used by an individual or a group of individuals to dominate others. That's when it gets downright nasty and objectionable. I don't mind people coming together to share and promote their faith, but I do feel strongly against religious organizations taking part in politics.
When it comes to censorship, religion should never be grounds for censoring a work of art. If it offends someone, that individual can make the choice not to go and see the offending item. Those who are not offended, should be able to enjoy it. Censorship is sometimes understandable (for example, no way in hell can you tell me that child pornography is art and therefore ok), but it should always be applied with reason and never backed with arguments that are based on "what God wants". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What he said.
I only hope theres a particularly warm part of hell reserved for those who use faith as a means of oppression. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> but if they really believe then they are going to heaven regardless, at least in Christianity
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 07:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I only hope theres a particularly warm part of hell reserved for those who use faith as a means of oppression. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All religion is a form of oppression of the self anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+Jul 29 2003, 07:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ Jul 29 2003, 07:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thank **** I live in Britain then. Although I do consider it officially blasphemous to portray a black man as god <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> I must say Morgan Freeman played Him well. And Jim Carrey had me in absolute hysterics. Watching that film I laughed harder than I have done for a long long time. Glad I watched it! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
<!--QuoteBegin--briguy992+Jul 29 2003, 09:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briguy992 @ Jul 29 2003, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> its a good movie... i wonder what types of computer games are banned from US.. was Postal?? postal 2 pwn so bad.... funny <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Postal 2 Return to sender. Now. Mature | PC
When a game is touted as the most controversial ever and it proudly wears an M rating on its sleeve like a bloody booger, you can be reasonably sure there isn't much of a game underneath the sleaze. Postal 2 -- Which at least tries to be different in its mission structure -- is meant to be rude and crude, but it's also meant to be funny. That can make up for a lack of gameplay if done right. Guess what? Postal 2 isn't funny.
Sure, Gary Coleman running around with a machine gun is sort of funny, but only in that way washed-up child actors with kidney problems being exploited can be. Starting the game off by kicking your own dog isn't funny -- it's just crass.
Including a coin-op arcade game called *** Hunter in the game world is not only not funny, it's disgusting and hateful. Whoever's responsible for that little piece of shame should be run out of the industry. In the case of Postal 2, the joke is on the game buyer.
- Tom Price
Pub: Whiptail Interactive Price: $49.99 Dev: Running with Scissors Players: 1 Rel: April 2003 Origin: U.S.A.
VILE 0/10
Better than: Working at the post office. Not as good as: Anything we've ever played. Not even: Gary Coleman can salvage this one.
^^ Posted in GMR Magazine. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ah, Postal 2 wasn't that bad. I didn't find it funny, and the gameplay was mediocre, but it wasn't as bad as some of the more upstanding games I've played.
Officially I'm a catholic, but personally I'm more of an atheist. If there's one belief I have it's that aliens created humans... no, really.
Also, I once heard a theory that if the universe is truly infinite and beyond human comprehension, than anything and everything is happening right now. Infinity. Yep, that's powerful stuff. So the next time you imagine or read or play a game, it's happening!
Acer: 1 John 3:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
I'm not saying that if you believe in Christ, you may not nescesarily go to heaven, but I can hardly see how someone who embraces the faith as a means of control can be considered a true believer.
<!--QuoteBegin-- Allurhive+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( Allurhive)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All religion is a form of oppression of the self anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hive, where in the bible does it say to do the things that it says because you need to hurt or deprive yourself 'just because'? Nowhere. What things are asked that do harm, but have no benefits? I'm seriously asking you to come up with a list.
it also says (im no bible scholar so i cant give you a verse) that all men that believes and trusts in Christ would be taken into heaven regardless what they have done on earth, and then it goes on and says that the only way to not go to heaven is to renounce him or sell your soul...
Of course. The question is that if they are carrying out those atrocities, did they really believe and trust in Jesus in the first place?
Edit: as for if you can lose your salvation once you have it, it's pretty clear when it says that we are "sealed with him until the day of judgement" that once you do honestly and truly ask him into your heart, you're saved, period. It's an idea called eternal security, google it if you want more info.
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jul 29 2003, 08:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jul 29 2003, 08:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 07:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I only hope theres a particularly warm part of hell reserved for those who use faith as a means of oppression. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> All religion is a form of oppression of the self anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really because you get to choose your faith.
If you change "relgion ruins everything" to "goverment ruins everything" ill agree with the rest of yah.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course. The question is that if they are carrying out those atrocities, did they really believe and trust in Jesus in the first place? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action?
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 29 2003, 10:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 29 2003, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course. The question is that if they are carrying out those atrocities, did they really believe and trust in Jesus in the first place? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I call the modern ones communist.
<!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 29 2003, 10:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 29 2003, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course. The question is that if they are carrying out those atrocities, did they really believe and trust in Jesus in the first place? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, a grey area. I know I can't really answer with any degree of certainty, but I refer you to the edit on my previous post.
My personal belief is that when Christ is accepted, that person is saved. Period. So, that person in the example would be saved, if the acceptance was genuine. That's about as far as my knowledge of the subject goes.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 09:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 09:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course. The question is that if they are carrying out those atrocities, did they really believe and trust in Jesus in the first place?
Edit: as for if you can lose your salvation once you have it, it's pretty clear when it says that we are "sealed with him until the day of judgement" that once you do honestly and truly ask him into your heart, you're saved, period. It's an idea called eternal security, google it if you want more info. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ah yes the almight google, it holds the answers to all of our questions
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Jesus' main point was the re-establishment of the law of Moses. One of the most important laws is: Thou shalt not murder. There is no reason to believe that a gross violation of this law will be forgiven.
<!--QuoteBegin--James H4xwell+Jul 29 2003, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (James H4xwell @ Jul 29 2003, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--BioHaz+Jul 29 2003, 04:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BioHaz @ Jul 29 2003, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jul 29 2003, 01:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jul 29 2003, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--That Annoying Kid+Jul 29 2003, 03:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (That Annoying Kid @ Jul 29 2003, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--[WoLF]+Jul 29 2003, 01:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([WoLF] @ Jul 29 2003, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--xioutlawix+Jul 29 2003, 08:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Jul 29 2003, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Killymagee+Jul 29 2003, 02:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Killymagee @ Jul 29 2003, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--343_guilty_spark+Jul 29 2003, 07:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (343_guilty_spark @ Jul 29 2003, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Religion ruins everything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And that is why they should ban Religion. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> motion passed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> motion passed in even more agreement <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And this would be enforced by? Death? Torture? You'd have to kill me before you could make me renounce my faith. And i'd take some of you with me by God. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd enforce it by physical castration, and then maybe some further death and torture just for grins and giggles. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am sick and tired of this. HOW COME EVERY TIME SOMONE SAYS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT RELIGION THEN 10 PEOPLE FLOCK ON OVER AND GO "HAHA YEP RELIGION IS STUPID", WHEN ABOUT 99% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BELIEVE IN IT? WHAT IF WE WERE ALL TO MAKE FUN OF YOU AND SAY "OMG U GUYS ARE SO STUPID FOR SAYING RELIGION IS DUMB?" WELL I BET YOU WOULD FEEL PRETTY STUPID, BUT WE DONT DO THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE A RELIGION. EVEN DEVIL WORSHIP IS A RELIGION. YOU GUYS ARE MORONS. I DO NOT CARE IF THIS POST GETS DELETED/ME SUSPENDED/BANNED. I LOVE THESE FORUMS BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ANYTHING LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111112123@1!
EVERYOEN WHO HAS A RELIGION IS NOT SOME LITTLE WIMP. TRY TO ENFORCE SOMETHING ON ME BY PHYSICAL MEANS AND LAUGH IN MY FACE. I SWEAR TO MY GOD THAT YOU WILL NOT LEAVE ALIVE EVEN IF IT IS A SIN. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hahaha
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 07:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--moultano+Jul 29 2003, 10:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jul 29 2003, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Jul 29 2003, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course. The question is that if they are carrying out those atrocities, did they really believe and trust in Jesus in the first place? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, a grey area. I know I can't really answer with any degree of certainty, but I refer you to the edit on my previous post.
My personal belief is that when Christ is accepted, that person is saved. Period. So, that person in the example would be saved, if the acceptance was genuine. That's about as far as my knowledge of the subject goes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was once under the impression that the percentage of Christians who were Crusaders was almost non-existent. I'm particularly perplexed by the general population of those people. Wasn't the Average Joe at that time simply an illiterate peasant? They can't read the Bible, so they put their trust in their superiors to interpret what God wants them to do, and their superiors simply take advantage of them to further their personal vendetta.
There isn't any doubt in my mind that people today die without ever having heard the Gospel. God has a way of judging those people. I'm guessing those peasants would be classed as "not having heard the Gospel" either.
In my opinion, I think our North American society is doing the same thing those Crusaders did. Instead of waging jihads though, we act like sloths. <b>*DEADLY SIN*</b>
I haven't seen the movie yet, (currently watching Amelie <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ), but I watched the opening for it:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>We must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil which we must fear most... the indifference of good men</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Religion is still no excuse for idiocy. Some things are just plain stupid, that's all there is to it. This decision is one of them. Any religious authority (please note: I said <i>religious authority</i>, not religion) that believes that the content in Bruce Almighty would undermine the faith of their flock is obviously going about reinforcing faith the wrong way.
It's the same as those idiot religious peoples wanting to ban Harry Potter because "it enourages witchcraft". If your reaction to dealing with any percieved threat (in religion, or otherwise) is censorship, then you are not doing your job properly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any religious authority (please note: I said religious authority, not religion) that believes that the content in Bruce Almighty would undermine the faith of their flock is obviously going about reinforcing faith the wrong way. [...] If your reaction to dealing with any percieved threat (in religion, or otherwise) is censorship, then you are not doing your job properly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is some merit to this opinion. However, to be logically consistent it requires you to argue in favour of abolishing ALL forms of censorship. Pornography and graphic violence would have to be tolerated in prime-time TV (and this forum, btw), for, after all, citizens should be mature enough to deal with it, and parents should protect their children. If the government perceives this as a threat, it's not doing its job properly.
Are you prepared to embrace this conclusion of your argument? If not, the question WHICH ideas are unbecoming for innocent minds remains a matter of opinion. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never really intended for this to become a thread about religion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You must be new to Internet forums.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+Jul 30 2003, 12:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Jul 30 2003, 12:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any religious authority (please note: I said religious authority, not religion) that believes that the content in Bruce Almighty would undermine the faith of their flock is obviously going about reinforcing faith the wrong way. [...] If your reaction to dealing with any percieved threat (in religion, or otherwise) is censorship, then you are not doing your job properly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is some merit to this opinion. However, to be logically consistent it requires you to argue in favour of abolishing ALL forms of censorship. Pornography and graphic violence would have to be tolerated in prime-time TV (and this forum, btw), for, after all, citizens should be mature enough to deal with it, and parents should protect their children. If the government perceives this as a threat, it's not doing its job properly.
Are you prepared to embrace this conclusion of your argument? If not, the question WHICH ideas are unbecoming for innocent minds remains a matter of opinion. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never really intended for this to become a thread about religion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You must be new to Internet forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh how bittersweet truth tastes...
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+Jul 30 2003, 05:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Jul 30 2003, 05:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Jesus' main point was the re-establishment of the law of Moses. One of the most important laws is: Thou shalt not murder. There is no reason to believe that a gross violation of this law will be forgiven. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, and that is blapshemeing against the holy spirit. every other sin (yes, even mass murder) can and will be forgiven. you may have heard about the moors muderes who were a man and a woman who killed many people on the yorkshire moors (in the 70's i think) They were both caught and convicted and the woman, hindley repented her sins and has become a christian.
saying that you dont believe in God is just as much a statement of faith as saying you do. if you show me one piece of evidence that God does not exist, i will show you hundreds that say he does. because i am a nice person, i will start off.
Isaac Newton had a friend (we'll call him fred) round for dinner once, and fred noticed a complicated (for those days) model of the solar system on Isaac's desk, and he asked isaac who made it.
"noone"
"what do you mean no-one?
"i mean noone. it just appeared one morning while i was eating some toast with marmalade"
"you mean to tell me that this intricate, complicated model just appeared out of no where? It just couldn't happen."
"And you mean to tell me that this infinitely more complex universe just 'appeared out of nowher' as well? how is it that you can accept this idea, yet you cant believe that a relatively simple model like this did?"
OK, so it doesnt actually prove God exists, that is impossible (to prove). It does, however give a very strong argument.
If there is one thing i ask you to do, is to go out into the country side, find somehwere with a stuning veiw, and ask yourself. is this all just a big cosmic fluke? are we just random mutaions with no purpose whatsoever? If that is the case, you may as well just go home to the people you love, murder them, break down their body into the base chemicals and sell them for £2, cos that is what they are worth.
having read that, how do you feel. angry? Denail? "no way, my gf/bf/mum/wife/daughter is worth way more than £2"
Why?
back on topic, i felt that film (i've seen it twice) although it could be taken in the wrong way saying that it is blasphemous, it did raise some very very good points about the christian faith and God, the most important one being "How can you make someone love you if you cant affect free will". the other one i found interesting was when ms anniston said "you know everything happens for a reason" and carrey replied "you know thats of mo help to me"
I personally don't have any problem with the belief systems some people have. I just want to add something to the fire. Think back in human history, all past religions are now considered mythologies. A mythology is 3 things, it's a story (duh), its communal by nature, and it addresses significant concerns of a society. That is exactly what christianity is. It starts off with the story, The Bible. The Story is then passed on to each generation, making it communal. And finally it tries to teach people virtues and morals, teaching people to respect eachother thus addressing significant concerns.
If you were to read the "myths" of past religions you would find stories that teach some of the same morals, and some of the same virtues that the bible tries to teach. What we are looking at is the development of a mythology. In the future when society colapses, yet again, the new societies will judge christianity, catholocism, and all other established religions as mythologies. And they will be worshiping Joe Blow and his life in Manhattan. It's just the way things work. I don't know, I like to look at religion as something for someone who feels they need a guidebook to living a happy life.
I don't really know if I agree with that movie being banned for religious reasons. But seeing as how it's so sucktacular, I agree with the banning in general. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wasn't the Average Joe at that time simply an illiterate peasant? They can't read the Bible, so they put their trust in their superiors to interpret what God wants them to do, and their superiors simply take advantage of them to further their personal vendetta.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your average peasant at this time strongly believed in Christ and particularly God. The Templars are debatable, many of them would have been Christian, but many would have just gone off and killed people because the Pope said they could get away with anything. Most peasants accepted that too. They massacred a lot of people, and sadly, did it all in the name of God.
if you havent, i think its amazing how peopl can give a full comment on sometihn they know nothing about
if you have, i think you should read it again, especially the gospel of Mark. does that seem like a story?
the gospels were written by people who were there (matthew and John) or who inteviewed people who where (mark and luke). There is more evidence supporting the truth of the bible than there is of any other historical document for the same time. Jesus doesnt appear just in the bible, and there is more evidence to support his existence than that of Julius Ceasar. There is one last thing. Many thousands of people have died because of thier beileif (we call them matyrs, you call them idiots). Whatever they beleived in was real enough to them.
Suppose i said that i saw a UFO last night. suppose also that where i live, it is illegal to talk about ufos, and the punishment is death. suppose also that lots of other people came forward reporting that they too had seen a ufo. at our trial, we are given one last chance to deny the ufo else we will be killed, yet we still say we saw a ufo.
if there is one thing you can get from this example, it is that you cannot deny that we beleive we saw a ufo. it was a real experience for every one of us and we are prepared to die for it. Mass hallucination? you mean everybody, unconnected having exactly the same hallucination at the same time? i dont think so. you cannot help but say that we saw a ufo.
people have died painful slow deaths for chistianity, and you say it was a story?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, and that is blapshemeing against the holy spirit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Could you offer a quote from the Scripture to support your interpretation?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but Jesus said that "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matt 5:18, with regards to the law as revealed to Moses). This indicates to me that violations of the law are supposed to be punished on Earth as they are in Heaven. The just punishment for murder is death (Exodus 21:12). Why would God demand that murderers are put to death if this is a sin that can be forgiven?
Comments
To be a bit more harsh, religion is what makes faith stupid. I have no problem with people who want to believe in God, Allah, Shiva, Some-Beastly-Thing-That-Looks-Like-Shrubbery, or the tiny elf spirits who dwell in donut land (the ones that poke the holes in the said comestibles). What irks me however is when that faith is used by an individual or a group of individuals to dominate others. That's when it gets downright nasty and objectionable. I don't mind people coming together to share and promote their faith, but I do feel strongly against religious organizations taking part in politics.
When it comes to censorship, religion should never be grounds for censoring a work of art. If it offends someone, that individual can make the choice not to go and see the offending item. Those who are not offended, should be able to enjoy it. Censorship is sometimes understandable (for example, no way in hell can you tell me that child pornography is art and therefore ok), but it should always be applied with reason and never backed with arguments that are based on "what God wants". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What he said.
I only hope theres a particularly warm part of hell reserved for those who use faith as a means of oppression. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
but if they really believe then they are going to heaven regardless, at least in Christianity
All religion is a form of oppression of the self anyway.
lol
Postal 2
Return to sender. Now.
Mature | PC
When a game is touted as the most controversial ever and it proudly wears an M rating on its sleeve like a bloody booger, you can be reasonably sure there isn't much of a game underneath the sleaze. Postal 2 -- Which at least tries to be different in its mission structure -- is meant to be rude and crude, but it's also meant to be funny. That can make up for a lack of gameplay if done right. Guess what? Postal 2 isn't funny.
Sure, Gary Coleman running around with a machine gun is sort of funny, but only in that way washed-up child actors with kidney problems being exploited can be. Starting the game off by kicking your own dog isn't funny -- it's just crass.
Including a coin-op arcade game called *** Hunter in the game world is not only not funny, it's disgusting and hateful. Whoever's responsible for that little piece of shame should be run out of the industry. In the case of Postal 2, the joke is on the game buyer.
- Tom Price
Pub: Whiptail Interactive
Price: $49.99
Dev: Running with Scissors
Players: 1
Rel: April 2003
Origin: U.S.A.
VILE
0/10
Better than: Working at the post office.
Not as good as: Anything we've ever played.
Not even: Gary Coleman can salvage this one.
^^ Posted in GMR Magazine. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Officially I'm a catholic, but personally I'm more of an atheist. If there's one belief I have it's that aliens created humans... no, really.
Also, I once heard a theory that if the universe is truly infinite and beyond human comprehension, than anything and everything is happening right now. Infinity. Yep, that's powerful stuff. So the next time you imagine or read or play a game, it's happening!
Please don't ban me for insanity.
It isn't even that great a movie.
And that is why they should ban Religion. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, religion is fine. Its the FANATICS that ruin everything.
<a href='http://www.rushman.org/seven/zeal.html' target='_blank'>Zeal</a>
I'm not saying that if you believe in Christ, you may not nescesarily go to heaven, but I can hardly see how someone who embraces the faith as a means of control can be considered a true believer.
<!--QuoteBegin-- Allurhive+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ( Allurhive)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All religion is a form of oppression of the self anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hive, where in the bible does it say to do the things that it says because you need to hurt or deprive yourself 'just because'? Nowhere. What things are asked that do harm, but have no benefits? I'm seriously asking you to come up with a list.
I'll wait.
Edit: as for if you can lose your salvation once you have it, it's pretty clear when it says that we are "sealed with him until the day of judgement" that once you do honestly and truly ask him into your heart, you're saved, period. It's an idea called eternal security, google it if you want more info.
All religion is a form of oppression of the self anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really because you get to choose your faith.
If you change "relgion ruins everything" to "goverment ruins everything" ill agree with the rest of yah.
I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action?
I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I call the modern ones communist.
I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, a grey area. I know I can't really answer with any degree of certainty, but I refer you to the edit on my previous post.
My personal belief is that when Christ is accepted, that person is saved. Period. So, that person in the example would be saved, if the acceptance was genuine. That's about as far as my knowledge of the subject goes.
Edit: as for if you can lose your salvation once you have it, it's pretty clear when it says that we are "sealed with him until the day of judgement" that once you do honestly and truly ask him into your heart, you're saved, period. It's an idea called eternal security, google it if you want more info. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ah yes the almight google, it holds the answers to all of our questions
Jesus' main point was the re-establishment of the law of Moses. One of the most important laws is: Thou shalt not murder. There is no reason to believe that a gross violation of this law will be forgiven.
And that is why they should ban Religion. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
motion passed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
motion passed in even more agreement <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this would be enforced by? Death? Torture? You'd have to kill me before you could make me renounce my faith. And i'd take some of you with me by God. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd enforce it by physical castration, and then maybe some further death and torture just for grins and giggles. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sick and tired of this. HOW COME EVERY TIME SOMONE SAYS SOMETHING BAD ABOUT RELIGION THEN 10 PEOPLE FLOCK ON OVER AND GO "HAHA YEP RELIGION IS STUPID", WHEN ABOUT 99% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BELIEVE IN IT? WHAT IF WE WERE ALL TO MAKE FUN OF YOU AND SAY "OMG U GUYS ARE SO STUPID FOR SAYING RELIGION IS DUMB?" WELL I BET YOU WOULD FEEL PRETTY STUPID, BUT WE DONT DO THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE A RELIGION. EVEN DEVIL WORSHIP IS A RELIGION. YOU GUYS ARE MORONS. I DO NOT CARE IF THIS POST GETS DELETED/ME SUSPENDED/BANNED. I LOVE THESE FORUMS BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ANYTHING LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111112123@1!
EVERYOEN WHO HAS A RELIGION IS NOT SOME LITTLE WIMP. TRY TO ENFORCE SOMETHING ON ME BY PHYSICAL MEANS AND LAUGH IN MY FACE. I SWEAR TO MY GOD THAT YOU WILL NOT LEAVE ALIVE EVEN IF IT IS A SIN. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hahaha
Thanks for that mate, gave me a good laugh.
I'm actually a little curious about this. What happens to a person so deviod of any form of reason that they truly and honestly believe themselves to be doing right by these atrocities? Does mental illness of this level prevent you from entering heaven, or does their intent absolve them of the consequences of their action? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, a grey area. I know I can't really answer with any degree of certainty, but I refer you to the edit on my previous post.
My personal belief is that when Christ is accepted, that person is saved. Period. So, that person in the example would be saved, if the acceptance was genuine. That's about as far as my knowledge of the subject goes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was once under the impression that the percentage of Christians who were Crusaders was almost non-existent. I'm particularly perplexed by the general population of those people. Wasn't the Average Joe at that time simply an illiterate peasant? They can't read the Bible, so they put their trust in their superiors to interpret what God wants them to do, and their superiors simply take advantage of them to further their personal vendetta.
There isn't any doubt in my mind that people today die without ever having heard the Gospel. God has a way of judging those people. I'm guessing those peasants would be classed as "not having heard the Gospel" either.
In my opinion, I think our North American society is doing the same thing those Crusaders did. Instead of waging jihads though, we act like sloths. <b>*DEADLY SIN*</b>
I haven't seen the movie yet, (currently watching Amelie <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ), but I watched the opening for it:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>We must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil which we must fear most... the indifference of good men</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the same as those idiot religious peoples wanting to ban Harry Potter because "it enourages witchcraft". If your reaction to dealing with any percieved threat (in religion, or otherwise) is censorship, then you are not doing your job properly.
Topic jacked.
There is some merit to this opinion. However, to be logically consistent it requires you to argue in favour of abolishing ALL forms of censorship. Pornography and graphic violence would have to be tolerated in prime-time TV (and this forum, btw), for, after all, citizens should be mature enough to deal with it, and parents should protect their children. If the government perceives this as a threat, it's not doing its job properly.
Are you prepared to embrace this conclusion of your argument? If not, the question WHICH ideas are unbecoming for innocent minds remains a matter of opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never really intended for this to become a thread about religion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must be new to Internet forums.
There is some merit to this opinion. However, to be logically consistent it requires you to argue in favour of abolishing ALL forms of censorship. Pornography and graphic violence would have to be tolerated in prime-time TV (and this forum, btw), for, after all, citizens should be mature enough to deal with it, and parents should protect their children. If the government perceives this as a threat, it's not doing its job properly.
Are you prepared to embrace this conclusion of your argument? If not, the question WHICH ideas are unbecoming for innocent minds remains a matter of opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I never really intended for this to become a thread about religion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must be new to Internet forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh how bittersweet truth tastes...
Jesus' main point was the re-establishment of the law of Moses. One of the most important laws is: Thou shalt not murder. There is no reason to believe that a gross violation of this law will be forgiven. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, and that is blapshemeing against the holy spirit. every other sin (yes, even mass murder) can and will be forgiven. you may have heard about the moors muderes who were a man and a woman who killed many people on the yorkshire moors (in the 70's i think) They were both caught and convicted and the woman, hindley repented her sins and has become a christian.
saying that you dont believe in God is just as much a statement of faith as saying you do. if you show me one piece of evidence that God does not exist, i will show you hundreds that say he does. because i am a nice person, i will start off.
Isaac Newton had a friend (we'll call him fred) round for dinner once, and fred noticed a complicated (for those days) model of the solar system on Isaac's desk, and he asked isaac who made it.
"noone"
"what do you mean no-one?
"i mean noone. it just appeared one morning while i was eating some toast with marmalade"
"you mean to tell me that this intricate, complicated model just appeared out of no where? It just couldn't happen."
"And you mean to tell me that this infinitely more complex universe just 'appeared out of nowher' as well? how is it that you can accept this idea, yet you cant believe that a relatively simple model like this did?"
OK, so it doesnt actually prove God exists, that is impossible (to prove). It does, however give a very strong argument.
If there is one thing i ask you to do, is to go out into the country side, find somehwere with a stuning veiw, and ask yourself. is this all just a big cosmic fluke? are we just random mutaions with no purpose whatsoever? If that is the case, you may as well just go home to the people you love, murder them, break down their body into the base chemicals and sell them for £2, cos that is what they are worth.
having read that, how do you feel. angry? Denail? "no way, my gf/bf/mum/wife/daughter is worth way more than £2"
Why?
back on topic, i felt that film (i've seen it twice) although it could be taken in the wrong way saying that it is blasphemous, it did raise some very very good points about the christian faith and God, the most important one being "How can you make someone love you if you cant affect free will". the other one i found interesting was when ms anniston said "you know everything happens for a reason" and carrey replied "you know thats of mo help to me"
If you were to read the "myths" of past religions you would find stories that teach some of the same morals, and some of the same virtues that the bible tries to teach. What we are looking at is the development of a mythology. In the future when society colapses, yet again, the new societies will judge christianity, catholocism, and all other established religions as mythologies. And they will be worshiping Joe Blow and his life in Manhattan. It's just the way things work. I don't know, I like to look at religion as something for someone who feels they need a guidebook to living a happy life.
I don't really know if I agree with that movie being banned for religious reasons. But seeing as how it's so sucktacular, I agree with the banning in general. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Your average peasant at this time strongly believed in Christ and particularly God. The Templars are debatable, many of them would have been Christian, but many would have just gone off and killed people because the Pope said they could get away with anything. Most peasants accepted that too. They massacred a lot of people, and sadly, did it all in the name of God.
if you havent, i think its amazing how peopl can give a full comment on sometihn they know nothing about
if you have, i think you should read it again, especially the gospel of Mark. does that seem like a story?
the gospels were written by people who were there (matthew and John) or who inteviewed people who where (mark and luke). There is more evidence supporting the truth of the bible than there is of any other historical document for the same time. Jesus doesnt appear just in the bible, and there is more evidence to support his existence than that of Julius Ceasar. There is one last thing. Many thousands of people have died because of thier beileif (we call them matyrs, you call them idiots). Whatever they beleived in was real enough to them.
Suppose i said that i saw a UFO last night. suppose also that where i live, it is illegal to talk about ufos, and the punishment is death. suppose also that lots of other people came forward reporting that they too had seen a ufo. at our trial, we are given one last chance to deny the ufo else we will be killed, yet we still say we saw a ufo.
if there is one thing you can get from this example, it is that you cannot deny that we beleive we saw a ufo. it was a real experience for every one of us and we are prepared to die for it. Mass hallucination? you mean everybody, unconnected having exactly the same hallucination at the same time? i dont think so. you cannot help but say that we saw a ufo.
people have died painful slow deaths for chistianity, and you say it was a story?
Could you offer a quote from the Scripture to support your interpretation?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but Jesus said that "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matt 5:18, with regards to the law as revealed to Moses). This indicates to me that violations of the law are supposed to be punished on Earth as they are in Heaven. The just punishment for murder is death (Exodus 21:12). Why would God demand that murderers are put to death if this is a sin that can be forgiven?