Why Ns Will Probably Not Make It Onto Hl2

Raw_Evil · July 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">for the moment, anyway</div> I recall Flayra once stating that NS would be able to run on even the most low-end computers (~433MHz). From what I gather, HL2 will not run on anything less than a fairly new machine. This means that unless Flay has a change of heart, NS will likely stay on HL1 for the moment.

aegix · July 2003

If you consider a 700mhz processor and a DX6-gen graphics card 'fairly new' then I guess you're right. Cough.

Raw_Evil · July 2003

Say what? Is that all HL2 needs? I thought it was going to be more like Doom III (which I hear is the most intensive FPS ever made)

Edit: 700 MHz is still more than 433

Apos · July 2003

This really isnt a significant bump in system requirements these days: the amount of money needed to convert min specs of NS to well above the min specs of HL2 isn't too extreme.

-77$ for 1.13 Ghz Cpu (Intel) - any trade in/sale of old chip
-100 or less for a DX7/8 graphics card, and only 22 bucks for the lowest end card (a nice 50 bucks for a GeForce2 Pro 64MB)
-potentially another 256MB of system memory

That isn't exactly cheap cheap, but neither is it the kind of cash drop you'd need for a whole new computer or a high-end gaming system.

Apos · July 2003

And remember: that's what he was targeting when NS was first being developed. As time goes on, system requirements can safely go up. Of course, NS is already much more intensive than vanilla half-life...

And remember, it takes time to develop. I'd say that mid next year or later would be the best case scenario anyway for build time, design, and testing.

tankefugl · July 2003

The main reason NS won't make it into HL2 yet would perhaps be because HL2, and its SDK, isn't out yet?

Anyway, I don't believe it was said that a main goal was to make it available to low-end computers, it was more of a "product" coming from using a somewhat outdated engine.

Golath · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tankefugl @ Jul 24 2003, 02:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The main reason NS won't make it into HL2 yet would perhaps be because HL2, and its SDK, isn't out yet?

Anyway, I don't believe it was said that a main goal was to make it available to low-end computers, it was more of a "product" coming from using a somewhat outdated engine.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I agree, If it were made to run on low end systems it wouldent be one of the most cpu, graphical and ram intensive mods for HL (not to mention best damn looking).

alternate · July 2003

Well, I went ahead and screwed up, starting my own thread about this when there was already this one.
See mine here:
<a href='http://http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=39262&' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=39262</a>

I think aviability and accessability were the main reasons for using the HL engine and SDK.

Remo · July 2003

one of the main reasons NS is on HL is because it has the largest user base for any other online game, so i cant see it moving over to HL2 until all HL mods are dead or move to HL2.

Mr_Banks · July 2003

And what are the reasons to make it on HL2 engine? Better graphics? NS looks good right now, to me atleast. Physics? Where do you need it in NS? Bigger outdoors maps? In NS? Dont think so. Something i missed? In NS? Dont think so <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Gargamel · July 2003

wooooot? U sure about specs? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> I dont have to upgrade my Duron? my GF2? 8O
Or does this mean: Yes, you can play HL2, BUT with lag, with 320x240, 0 details, 1 bit color and 0 effects....
:/ I always hated software companies who talk about min specs, then recommended 4GHz Systems and the truth is you need 5GHz and GForce7 to play properly... :[

And about ns2.0 going hl2... would be GrEaT! But I dont know if you can push such a job to Flayra :/
I think its gonna be too much... Maybe stick to hl1 and see what the future upholds <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

tankefugl · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr Banks @ Jul 24 2003, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And what are the reasons to make it on HL2 engine? Better graphics? NS looks good right now, to me atleast. Physics? Where do you need it in NS? Bigger outdoors maps? In NS? Dont think so. Something i missed? In NS? Dont think so <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Sure, it looks good. It plays well. It feels right.

But I believe the NS-team is creative enough to find usages for the improvements found in the new engine.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Roobubba · July 2003

I was under the impression that "those" videos of HL2 we all saw were rendered in real time on a 700MHz system...?

Think about it: games console developers spend AGES optimising their game code to run on (frankly) slow systems. They may be designed for graphics, but are you telling me a Radeon 9800 or a GF4U isn't? It's been a long-standing tradition for games developers to release unoptimised PC games, because all they need to do is say "get a better system, they're available!" instead of forking out millions to optimise the code to run on lower spec systems.

FINALLY, we're seeing some well written game code that allows for some truly awesome graphic techniques to be run on standard gaming systems. Having an uber PC will allow you to make the graphics uber UBER seckseh.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think HL2 is being developed and optimised with PCs in mind, an important step in PC gaming history...

Roo

aegix · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Jul 24 2003, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was under the impression that "those" videos of HL2 we all saw were rendered in real time on a 700MHz system...? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I think it was something more along the lines of a 2ghz + Radeon 9800 Pro.

sekdar · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NoImagination @ Jul 24 2003, 05:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Volumetric explosions for one  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
and therefore the flamethrower flayra wanted to do.

do you really need any more justification than a flamethrower? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

J_D_W · July 2003

If it is not put onto hl2, i am 60% sure it will die out. Everyone will be moving across to hl2. It will be a new generation for gaming. Please study the mod code stuff thingy for HL2 before you make any final decisions.. :\

Alcapwn · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (J D W @ Jul 24 2003, 08:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If it is not put onto hl2, i am 60% sure it will die out. Everyone will be moving across to hl2. It will be a new generation for gaming. Please study the mod code stuff thingy for HL2 before you make any final decisions.. :\  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Meh.

Thats what people said about Ut2003. "Mods are gonna suck for Ut when Ut2003 is out!"

Guess what? Ive only seen 1 good mod out of 10 for ut2003 so far. Unreal Tournament (which came out Novemer 99) still pwns Ut2003. Last time i ched there were. Triple the amount of Ut players online than ut2003 (which came out October 2002)

Majin · July 2003

Games like HL2 and Doom III are aimed at better systems, it may be able to run on a 700Mhz system but to be able to play it with all the bells and whistles and enjoy the game the way it is ment to be enjoyed (WITH
GFX MAXED OUT) You are going to want to have something in the P4 1200Mhz range at least. with a Vid card of 64mbs bare min.

If game makers kept making games that could be played on P2 systems then your going to get games that could be ten times better than they are but arnt because the programers had to dumb everything down.

I hope that EVERY game by 2005 needs you to have a powerful computer of p4 2.0 CLASS AND UP TO BE ABLE TO PLAY IT!
It will force people to get rid of there grabage computers and help generate money for system devs.

Stoneburg · July 2003

Unlike UT, HL and Valve has realised the huge potential in mods. Just look at CS, say what you will about it, but it's keeping an ancient game engine alive and is still raking in cash for Valve. They will most likely try to help out mod designers as Flay as much as they can. Otherwise they'd be fools.

If NS is still around in 2 years it will probably be on its way over to HL2, if it hasn't been converted yet.

</speculation>

Dubbilex · July 2003

In this entire discussion, it's important to remmember that the HL2 engine is different from other comparable ones; The Half-Life 2 engine is something we like to call <i><b>scalable</b></i>. In layman's terms, thios means that the engine is a fully fluid thing-it will run fine on lower-end systems: it just won't have many of the visual effects (such as vertex-shaders, pixel shaders, and self-shadowing).

This 'scalability' has been a main objective to the dev team throughout the entire development cycle. Being so, Half-Life 2 will not LOOK as nice on a low-end system, but it very hopefully <b><i>will</i></b> play smoothly.

This said, I would like to bring up another point: detail. Current NS mappers are overworked the way it is-what with the incredible detail, lighting tweaks, balanced-ness and whatnot. When Half-life 2 comes around, mappers will have to work even <i>HARDER</i> to achieve the same level of immersion and general <i>coolness</i> that we currently enjoy in NS. And even IF they were to achieve this immersion, most of it would be lost to gamers with lower-end systems. Keeping with the 'low-end mentality' as Flayra likes to do, his interests conflict with the entire reason behind uppgrading to a better engine.

So we arrive at a l'il pickle, eh?

Of course I'm PRAYING for a HL2 release, but we'll just have to see how this plays out <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Mythr1l · July 2003

NS has so much potential but the HL engine limits what it can do somewhat, would love to see it on HL2 one day, but cant see it happening for a few years.

Apos · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Keeping with the 'low-end mentality' as Flayra likes to do, his interests conflict with the entire reason behind uppgrading to a better engine.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I'm not sure NS is really a low-end mentality at all. Compared to other HL mods, it actually has quite high specs.

Zek · July 2003

OK, a couple things.

1. NS is NOT a low-end game as far as HL mods go. I'm on an Athlon 2400+, 512 DDR RAM, and a Radeon 9500 Pro. Not top of the line by any means, but it completely owns just about any other HL mod out there. Running at 1024x768, I get anywhere from 30 to 60 FPS in NS; it never caps at 72. NS is the most graphics intensive HL mod out there as far as I know. If it moves to HL2, it's reasonable to assume that Flayra is not going to be obsessed with low-end compatability to the point that he ignores some of the better features of the engine. As was said, HL2 is going to be hopefully designed with all levels of computers in mind, so people should be able to disable options in "NS2" until it works well on their computer.

2. NS will not move onto HL2 at release or anything; it won't even have been out on HL for a year at that point. Hopefully Flayra will be working on it when he gets the SDK, but don't expect it to ever come out until NS is "complete" to an acceptable degree and Flayra is able to divert his attention fully to a new mod. This, of course, all goes under the assumption that Flayra is planning on an NS2.

3. Assuming that this "NS2" is going to be nothing more than NS with nicer graphics is foolish. Certainly it would be pointless to recreate the mod from scratch if that's all that's going to be done. The actual advantages of the Source engine over the very outdated HL engine are countless, and I think it's safe to say that NS2 will be a very different game than its predecessor if it's released. Does anyone have a link to Flayra's teasers in an interview about the direction of NS, which sounded pretty much impossble for the HL engine?

Anyway, I'm not going to say any more when we have no confirmation that Flayra is going to be working on Natural Selection for HL2. Of course all us fans would love nothing more than to see that, but there's little point talking about it now. The entire mod community is dying to get their hands on the Source SDK, and until it's released we can't really say anything for sure.

dr_d · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Jul 24 2003, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I was under the impression that "those" videos of HL2 we all saw were rendered in real time on a 700MHz system...?

Think about it: games console developers spend AGES optimising their game code to run on (frankly) slow systems. They may be designed for graphics, but are you telling me a Radeon 9800 or a GF4U isn't? It's been a long-standing tradition for games developers to release unoptimised PC games, because all they need to do is say "get a better system, they're available!" instead of forking out millions to optimise the code to run on lower spec systems.

FINALLY, we're seeing some well written game code that allows for some truly awesome graphic techniques to be run on standard gaming systems. Having an uber PC will allow you to make the graphics uber UBER seckseh.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think HL2 is being developed and optimised with PCs in mind, an important step in PC gaming history...

Roo </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yep, and this is exactly why HL2 will be a PC ONLY release when it comes out because Valve didn't decide to make it a cash cow and instead focus on making it perfect for the PC before they attempted making it for a console.

I guess there's a balance to everything in this world, Valve is the light side of the force in the gaming market and EA is darth motherFing vader.

lordbluewolf · July 2003

I'm gonna have to say the Force.

dr_d · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NoImagination @ Jul 24 2003, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If EA is the "darth motherFing vader", what is Microsoft?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Excuse me but Microsoft actually makes decent games, and they don't pump out complete garbage that they claim is a complete game.

Mechwarrior 4 was fun as hell (all I can think of right now)

I can name like 10 horrible EA releases for the PC off the top of my head.

TickTock · July 2003

Naw, M$ deserves some credit for 2000 and XP. Both quite good platforms.

edit: Of course they should also be bludgeoned after ME.

Beast · July 2003

Meh, My computer has owned (after tweaking) every game I have thrown at it, Unreal 2 included. I managed to get a very nice balance between quality and performance - to the point where the quality was still very good, but the performance was also good.

As for ns....I currently run it in 4x fsaa and 4x ansitropic filtering, It still wants to go higher than 75fps (but my monitor limits it to 75)...
Im sure my current computer will run hl2 very well, and to make sure, I will be getting a rebuild next year (hopefully including a geforce fx 5900 + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>)

So as for a conversion from hl to hl2 for ns...wellll....If they can preserve the atmosphere of the skulk or enhance it I will be happy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Frogg2 · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 24 2003, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 3. Assuming that this "NS2" is going to be nothing more than NS with nicer graphics is foolish. Certainly it would be pointless to recreate the mod from scratch if that's all that's going to be done. The actual advantages of the Source engine over the very outdated HL engine are countless, and I think it's safe to say that NS2 will be a very different game than its predecessor if it's released. Does anyone have a link to Flayra's teasers in an interview about the direction of NS, which sounded pretty much impossble for the HL engine?
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Keep in mind NS2.0 is coming out the 31st if NS were to be ported to the Source Engine it would most likely be called NS3.0

Kenichi · July 2003

or it would be called Natural Selection 2

right now its just Natural selection 1 version 2.0

2 could still be used in the future to denote a brand new game.

sekdar · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Jul 24 2003, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Excuse me but Microsoft actually makes decent games, and they don't pump out complete garbage that they claim is a complete game.

Mechwarrior 4 was fun as hell (all I can think of right now)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

have you played mw2 or 3? microsoft totally killed the series with #4. destroyed the balance and fun factor and tried to make it more action-y. Loki mechs with 3 heavy autocannons are the only things <b>ever</b> used for fighting in that game it is so 'balanced'

thats my opinion <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (h20 @ Jul 24 2003, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> so far Unreal Tournament (which came out Novemer 99) still pwns Ut2003</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

agreed, but only because 2k3 was IDENTICAL to the original except for cosmetic changes.

Why Ns Will Probably Not Make It Onto Hl2

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