Would Physics Really Add Anything To Ns?
Apos
Join Date: 2003-06-14 Member: 17369Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-06-14 Member: 17369Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">a neat feature.. but is there any point?</div> This is NOT about HL2, though obviously HL2 is what raises the issue. This is about the applicability to NS of having a full rigid-body physics system working to any degree on the server-side (i.e. the physical interactions "matter" to the game instead of just being client-side eye-candy).
It's pretty obvious that NS, being a multiplayer game, doesn't want to bog down network traffic with too many server syncronized physics objects, especially given how many unique structures the game already uses. Worse, this game really doesn't at least on first brush, seem to benefit from server-side physics the way a slower game like CS would. You can imagine how in CS that it would be useful to be able to knock over a table to use for cover. But in NS, most of the aliens attack with either melee or splash damage: barricades don't benefit marines all that much, because they primarily aren't worried about protection from bullets.
So I wanted to discuss two issues:
-are there any good ideas for how server-side physics could actually benefit gameplay as opposed to being a waste of resources? Can anyone think of ANYTHING that would really add in a major way to the gameplay of NS?
-is a server-side physics model really appropriate to NS at all (and hence any urgency in switching over to next-gen engines like HL2 for that reason)?
It's pretty obvious that NS, being a multiplayer game, doesn't want to bog down network traffic with too many server syncronized physics objects, especially given how many unique structures the game already uses. Worse, this game really doesn't at least on first brush, seem to benefit from server-side physics the way a slower game like CS would. You can imagine how in CS that it would be useful to be able to knock over a table to use for cover. But in NS, most of the aliens attack with either melee or splash damage: barricades don't benefit marines all that much, because they primarily aren't worried about protection from bullets.
So I wanted to discuss two issues:
-are there any good ideas for how server-side physics could actually benefit gameplay as opposed to being a waste of resources? Can anyone think of ANYTHING that would really add in a major way to the gameplay of NS?
-is a server-side physics model really appropriate to NS at all (and hence any urgency in switching over to next-gen engines like HL2 for that reason)?
Comments
Imagine an Onos running through the Marine base tossing the buildings around easily. Imagine the Hive falling from the ceiling and plopping on the floor when it dies. IMAGINE A MARINE GRAVITEH GUN~!!!!!
-is a server-side physics model really appropriate to NS at all (and hence any urgency in switching over to next-gen engines like HL2 for that reason)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I think ANY game benefits from realism, especially from physical realism. But I believe the Half life engine, being 5 years old, is very limited in the amount of real life physics that could be applied. Plus, Id think it would be a programing nightmare to try and implement something like real time physics to the half life engine, more trouble than it would be worth.
But to answer your questions openly, they would benefit the game in being awesome eye candy, and adding more stratigic value to maps with everyday stuff lying around. And, Physics are appropiate in any game <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Rigid body physics isn't going to give you a satisfying "plop" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> And would we really want an Onos to be able to knock over structures? It would be cool to see them tip and wobble and then tumble over, but that would sort of make it way too easy for an Onos to totally ruin a base. I was thinking, however, that aliens could "knock over" turrets, giving them another way of taking them out even if the are more accurate (i.e. a slulk launches itself at the turret, dies in midair, but it's body continues on to hit the turret, knocking it over or across the room. A marine has to set it back up again to make it work properly again (a process that works pretty quickly, but requires at least some effort), thus meaning that if you leave a turret farm undefended, skulks can slowly take it out or knock the turrets into less than ideal positions if there isn't a marine around to maintain things.)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But to answer your questions openly, they would benefit the game in being awesome eye candy, and adding more stratigic value to maps with everyday stuff lying around.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's sort of the problem: I can't think of any way having a bunch of physical stuff lying around would really benefit the game. Remember, doing this has to be justified as seriously playing into the main game: it has to play a useful and meaningful role in the strategy, not just be assumed to just because "hey, it's physics!" Otherwise, it's a waste, and might as well be client-side.
Yet, it'll be ping hellish..
To bad you would be getting electricuted while hiding from the bullets <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I suppose one time events like things falling could work okay, but if they are things that only happen once, it raises the point: why do it with real physics when you can do it with a scripted sequence/animation like the vents closing? Why would you need accurate one-time falling of debris if all you want is to block a tunnel? I mean, that really is no worse for "realism" in the end, and making it real wouldn't add anything to the actual GAME, which is the important point.
I set one up with a metaparticles SuperSpray emitter and a little custom coding in 3DS Max that rendered BEAUTIFULLY in real time, as far as behaving like a flamethrower is concerned. Maybe something for 2.1?
....<i>pleeeeeease</i>?
One thing I did think of was marine baricades for blocking hallways: they could be made so that aliens could knock them around a bit, but it would take a certain number of aliens to actually knock them down.