Vets, Please Quit Comparing Things
taboofires
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Members
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Members
<div class="IPBDescription">on res costs alone</div> Saying something that costs X res should be killed by something that costs twice as much ignores the whole picture. Health/cost kharaa works the same way. There are so many more resources than those that come from collectors, so include those in figuring them out as well.
Some alien classes need only enough health to run away. Get a meat-shield if you're a non-com class. You do it with gorges, so why can't you do it with lerks? Have the skulk cover you while you do your thing and then back off. Lerks aren't about kills.
Comparing a gorge's killing power to that of a skulk is silly. Sure, they cost more, but they aren't there to fight. They build and support. They don't need to be tanks.
I've seen HMG cost compared to the cost of buildings and how fast they should kill them. That's silly too. The time it takes to kill a structure should be determined by the entire purpose of the structure. An OC should be able to delay marines long enough for the kharaa to react. If they can't do that, fix it. If they can delay the marines half-decently, even with HMGs, then it's fine.
Come on now guys. Don't drown in the numbers. Go with what's fun.
Some alien classes need only enough health to run away. Get a meat-shield if you're a non-com class. You do it with gorges, so why can't you do it with lerks? Have the skulk cover you while you do your thing and then back off. Lerks aren't about kills.
Comparing a gorge's killing power to that of a skulk is silly. Sure, they cost more, but they aren't there to fight. They build and support. They don't need to be tanks.
I've seen HMG cost compared to the cost of buildings and how fast they should kill them. That's silly too. The time it takes to kill a structure should be determined by the entire purpose of the structure. An OC should be able to delay marines long enough for the kharaa to react. If they can't do that, fix it. If they can delay the marines half-decently, even with HMGs, then it's fine.
Come on now guys. Don't drown in the numbers. Go with what's fun.
Comments
Thats a bit silly if its true :S
(that would be infered *cough cough*
Fades, oooooo dear, if they take a certain 2 upgrades that most players do they are toffee at the moment, id rather them more dificult to kill without carapace, but not imposible, thats just plain stupid imo.
And I play both teams equally and have no bias to either team, and as i really hate HMGs and despise GLs because of the slow down factor, id like to know if LMG is still as easy/slightly harder/near imposible to kill fades with, as it is damn far to easy in 1.04.
I say i have no bias, as from the sounds of it (as made out by the topic starter) it seems although aliens win alot in the playtesting, OMG the vets want to make them harder still...... rofl sounds completely bias, but thats going on the impression i get from the topic starter only :|
Some alien classes need only enough health to run away. Get a meat-shield if you're a non-com class. You do it with gorges, so why can't you do it with lerks? Have the skulk cover you while you do your thing and then back off. Lerks aren't about kills.
Comparing a gorge's killing power to that of a skulk is silly. Sure, they cost more, but they aren't there to fight. They build and support. They don't need to be tanks.
I've seen HMG cost compared to the cost of buildings and how fast they should kill them. That's silly too. The time it takes to kill a structure should be determined by the entire purpose of the structure. An OC should be able to delay marines long enough for the kharaa to react. If they can't do that, fix it. If they can delay the marines half-decently, even with HMGs, then it's fine.
Come on now guys. Don't drown in the numbers. Go with what's fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WOW, you sir have shown us the light! What were we thinking? Numbers....we dont need no stinking numbers. Its a proven fact the game balances itself out naturally if you just "go with what's fun"
I say scrap everything we have done so far and start anew.....with.....fun.... stuff. Then make a new forum for it, or really just rename S&I and add in every idea posted there into the game.
....hah
***LOCKED***
if i was a mod...
You guys are silly.
lol er.... restart discusion?
Can I have your babies? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Can I have your babies? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh lord, not this again. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Eggmac is a spawny git <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
(its not an insult btw, he knows exactly why i say this)
each alien has a certain amount of health based on its job-function and the level the alien is. tier one aliens such as a skulk or a lerk are fairly weak, due to themselves being <b>tier one</b>. tier two and tier three aliens are stronger, respectively, due to being <b>tier two and tier three</b> aliens. the tier one aliens are base units to be used for the quick attack and containment of marines. they can be used as extreme offensive units, but dieing occurs often. the dieing should not be taken too harshly because they are not meant to be completely offensive units, they are quick strike units, mainly to be used in a sort of blitzkreig style.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Comparing a gorge's killing power to that of a skulk is silly. Sure, they cost more, but they aren't there to fight. They build and support. They don't need to be tanks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i see where you are coming from with this, but the fact is, no one will guard a gorge continuously throughout a game; it leaves a man down that could be on the offensive, or in a defensive position which could aid in the containment of marines, or the advancement of the alien hold on the map. gorges will not always have an escort, nor will they never see a marine. there is that one slight chance that the gorge wont see a marine, but more often than not, he is found to be facing a marine with stronger weapons, and more maneuverability. having a gorge's attack power at a point to keep the marine at bay, or even kill him is a great asset to the gorge, otherwise all battles would be inherently lopsided.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've seen HMG cost compared to the cost of buildings and how fast they should kill them. That's silly too. The time it takes to kill a structure should be determined by the entire purpose of the structure. An OC should be able to delay marines long enough for the kharaa to react. If they can't do that, fix it. If they can delay the marines half-decently, even with HMGs, then it's fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you can not react fast enough to a building being attacked, you either arent paying attantion to the game, or you are focusing on something elsewhere. OC's arent meant to delay the marines, they are not a defensive structure(<b>offense</b> chamber)... they are instituted to kill marines. people use them as defensive structures, but if you ever played a RTS then youd know that towers can be a most deadly offense if used properly, the same goes for the NS towers. when used properly, they can aid in the purposeful movement forward of the kharaa hold on the map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Come on now guys. Don't drown in the numbers. Go with what's fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it wouldnt be fun if only one side dominates unquestionably. do you really enjoy the game when one team ALWAYS wins... and its NOT the team you are on? the reason the numbers are there is because everything is a computation. we all want the game to be fun, but we also cannot sacrifice the game itself for it to be fun. fun - the game = no game whatsoever. fun + the game + gameplay = whee. i know i thoroughly do not enjoy the losing of my team constantly on a public server; it gets frustrating, and in-so-being, it causes me to definitely NOT have this so-called "fun" that you speak so highly of.
balance creates an envirionment of comparable classes and weapons, bringing about battles that may sway either way, basing the wins or losses entirely on the teams who seek them.
one team doesnt get to have fun while the other team doesnt get that same opportunity.
Can i have YOUR babies!?
Look... just stop posting about 2.0 before you play it, all the vets + pt's know what they are talking about when it comes to gameplay for 2.0.
so stop flaming us because your making yourself look like an extreme baka ... (for those of you who know what that means)
Can a stock marine still kill a fade one on one?
thought i better add, im talking about equal skill level between the two, above average skill <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
noone here is a nub but you shoenub.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://nonoobs.com/public/Draco/CommGuide/4.html' target='_blank'>Clickeh</a>
Second line down its the number of bullets it takes to kill the alien, with an unupgraded marine, and no cara or nothing. Even more of a reason why you should charge a fade is because it takes 36 bullets, and cara cant make it go over the needent of 50 bullets, so get in so close so you dont miss a shot.
Hope that helps!
<a href='http://nonoobs.com/public/Draco/CommGuide/index.html' target='_blank'>(Orginal Link, the above link is under 'know your enemies')</a>
you'll see why when you play
Now, onto what I THINK he was trying to say, I've seen it on the beta forum too..... some people seem to think that JUST because Thing#1 costs 10Res, and thing #2 costs 30 res(Just examples) then Thing#1 should NOT be able to stop thing#2 at all, and bassicly thats just plain stupid...it would be no difrent from saying "Well it should be impossible to kill a Lerk when your a LMG/LA marine, cause that lerk cost xxxres wherreas that LA/LMG marine was free..."
Numbers arent everything. The best example is the HMG vs structure. Some guys are saying HMG's should mow down OCs Instantly cause the HMG costs alot more than the OC, then others say HMGs are to good against structures and should be toned down to give aliens a chance. Me? i cant say WHO is right and who is wrong, because I'm what? thats right, NOT a tester or veteran, but i CAN say that if your JUST basing it on the numbers(Res vs Res) then you know NOTHING about balancing a game.
(Andn no, this is not aimed at ANYONE, and infact I am not saying that ANYONE is basing it on the res vs res, they might just be basing it on their opinion, I'm just trying to reanslate the topic starters post)
Edit: Oh and to cover one of Savants latest posts, it SHOULD, on the other hand, work in reverse inthat a 30res Lerk should at least be able to stand a CHANCE against a marine.
Again(As a flame ward) i say, I'm not trying to say Savant is correct, for all I know Lerks OWN marines, I'm just saying...It's fine to say High res should stand a chance against low res/free but its dumb to say no res/low res should NOT be able to beat high res things at ALL...
<a href='http://nonoobs.com/public/Draco/CommGuide/4.html' target='_blank'>Clickeh</a>
Second line down its the number of bullets it takes to kill the alien, with an unupgraded marine, and no cara or nothing. Even more of a reason why you should charge a fade is because it takes 36 bullets, and cara cant make it go over the needent of 50 bullets, so get in so close so you dont miss a shot.
Hope that helps!
<a href='http://nonoobs.com/public/Draco/CommGuide/index.html' target='_blank'>(Orginal Link, the above link is under 'know your enemies')</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn, looks like comming as well as being a marine altogether will be one tough game! but one question to PT's when the 2.0 log says gorges cannot evovle does this mean that once your a gorge unless u /kill in consol ur a gorge for the whole game? u cant devolve to a skulk then re-evolve again?