<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jul 16 2003, 04:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jul 16 2003, 04:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Starchy+Jul 16 2003, 04:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Starchy @ Jul 16 2003, 04:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It does make me laugh when some complete **** kills 3 people and doesn't shut the hell up about him beiing ""elite"" <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> : <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because you've still not got your first kill in NS yet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> **** I told you that in confidence esuna!!!
Now they all know how un-"elite" I am <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
awwww <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> We still love you ;x
I don't like the speak of l337. Whenever I go on a server, I use proper English language, capital letters and everything!
SMS messaging gets right on my ****. Sure it may take up less characters for a text message, but it looks totally stupid. My friend does it all the time, and I told him to stop doing it all the time, because it looks so gimmicky. It reminds me of those AWFUL shops like 'Trading 4 U' and 'Quik Fit.' And past it song writers like Rod Stewart and Blonde (Blondy - however it's spelt) seem to think it's cool and hip, releasing songs and albums along the lines of, 'I'll b there 4 u!'
WHEN WILL IT STOP!
And these stupid abbreviations DO affect people's writing skills. My friend wrote his Personal Statement for his UCAS application this year (I don't know if you have this in the states, but here you have to a few paragraphs on why you are good for this course and stuff, and it has to be absolutely perfect), and he'd actually used 4, U, B, instead of for, you, be respectively. He'd even not bothered using capitals for beginning of sentences!
I am totally against l337 speak for these reasons, though I do sometimes use it as a joke, so long as it makes sense.
"I am totally l337" or something, that I can deal with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
but where is the real practical harm caused ouside of the generation gap from kids saying "b" instead of be, and w00t instead of "yay"
even in written english, it shouldnt matter because a language is to pass along ideas. are we limiting the audience to whom the ideas may be passed? (yeah i said whom) do we care if certain old people dont knwo what a w00t is? shouldnt they be able to gather from context clues that it is an exclamation of joy? do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***?
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Jul 16 2003, 10:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jul 16 2003, 10:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but where is the real practical harm caused ouside of the generation gap from kids saying "b" instead of be, and w00t instead of "yay"
even in written english, it shouldnt matter because a language is to pass along ideas. are we limiting the audience to whom the ideas may be passed? (yeah i said whom) do we care if certain old people dont knwo what a w00t is? shouldnt they be able to gather from context clues that it is an exclamation of joy? do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When i see a sentence like "2nite do u want 2 go 2 the mall 2 b with jamie. c u l8er" i know for a FACT i can't be bothered to read it. It just doesn't seem like the effort. Kids being brought up and feeling that this desecration of the language is acceptable are slowly isolating us people that actually write the language as it should do. Which, i might add, is pretty much everyone over 20.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jul 16 2003, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jul 16 2003, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When i see a sentence like "2nite do u want 2 go 2 the mall 2 b with jamie. c u l8er" i know for a FACT i can't be bothered to read it. It just doesn't seem like the effort. Kids being brought up and feeling that this desecration of the language is acceptable are slowly isolating us people that actually write the language as it should do. Which, i might add, is pretty much everyone over 20. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I concur.
its complex grammatical rules turned the general public away from latin and even people in rome spoke greek instead. it was simply too much effort that was uneccessary for everyday life. surely, latin was kept for scientific uses for hundreds of years, but it was lost from the populace quite early on. many languages are simply bastardizations of latin, remove some verb endings and change some nown endings, then mess with dialectical pernounciation and youve got spanish, italian and french. (spanish and french are spoken in a hundred countries)
you cant tell me a language loses its sovereign merit simply because it is a degredation of another language. so long as these "SMS kiddies" communicate in an understandable way, and have the ability to switch to the aristocratic language of "high english" upon command, there is no harm being done.
this is the future in the making. you guys sound like Red Foreman when his son Eric says far out and groovy.
edit: i hope its legal to ahve a "discussion" in this forum <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Jul 16 2003, 03:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jul 16 2003, 03:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> UCAS give flying f***s! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jul 16 2003, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jul 16 2003, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Jul 16 2003, 10:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jul 16 2003, 10:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but where is the real practical harm caused ouside of the generation gap from kids saying "b" instead of be, and w00t instead of "yay"
even in written english, it shouldnt matter because a language is to pass along ideas. are we limiting the audience to whom the ideas may be passed? (yeah i said whom) do we care if certain old people dont knwo what a w00t is? shouldnt they be able to gather from context clues that it is an exclamation of joy? do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When i see a sentence like "2nite do u want 2 go 2 the mall 2 b with jamie. c u l8er" i know for a FACT i can't be bothered to read it. It just doesn't seem like the effort. Kids being brought up and feeling that this desecration of the language is acceptable are slowly isolating us people that actually write the language as it should do. Which, i might add, is pretty much everyone over 20.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Any problem then? They'll just grow up and start to realize how dumb they're sounding, then gradually start writing properly again.
<!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Jul 16 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jul 16 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any problem then? They'll just grow up and start to realize how dumb they're sounding, then gradually start writing properly again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah thats why you dont hear your parents saying groovy and "far out man" and why we wont be saying "fo' shizzle ma' nizzle" to mean "truely"
the mroe outrageous slang dies off as you incorporate into the adult culture, so it takes two or three generations to really make change. in fact a lot of our standard words nowadays were invented in the twenties. (i really wish i had an example right here..)
"Cool" was invented some years ago, and is now normal language for anyone any age. even your grandma knows it doesnt refer to temperature.
i dont believe SMS speak will become standard, but my original point is; who cares if it does?
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Jul 16 2003, 12:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jul 16 2003, 12:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so long as these "SMS kiddies" communicate in an understandable way <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And herein lies the problem...
I could understand using shorthand in an IM because it's quick and efficient, but using it in handwriting? Geez.
Once I was at a cousin's house and I was looking at his AIM conversations. These 12-year-olds spell 'you' as 'yooh' and 'fine' as 'fione'. It seems like they're raping the English language because they can.
It's kind of sad to see the line between casual communication and formal communication being blurred and erased. Not to say it's necessarily a bad thing, but how seriously will you take someone if they write or type or goodness forbid talk as if they were using an IM service?
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jul 17 2003, 12:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jul 17 2003, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When i see a sentence like "2nite do u want 2 go 2 the mall 2 b with jamie. c u l8er" i know for a FACT i can't be bothered to read it. It just doesn't seem like the effort. Kids being brought up and feeling that this desecration of the language is acceptable are slowly isolating us people that actually write the language as it should do. Which, i might add, is pretty much everyone over 20. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's not 13e7 (ha! take THAT, swearfilter!). That's "I-type-too-slowly-to-type-properly", and it annoys the hell out of me, while 13e7 doesn't.
I use it to make jokes. Like writing my obligatory pseudocode for lab pracs at uni in l3e7 (because I hate pseudocode).
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
<!--QuoteBegin--HWGuy in a Can+Jul 16 2003, 07:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HWGuy in a Can @ Jul 16 2003, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Once I was at a cousin's house and I was looking at his AIM conversations. These 12-year-olds spell 'you' as 'yooh' and 'fine' as 'fione'. It seems like they're raping the English language because they can. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well the fione one is simply a common typeo, as the i and o keys are very close to each other. Just as the p often replaces o because they are very close. How can you get angry at someone simply because they are not the best typists in the world? Perhaps they simply have not been typeing for very long, or have awful hand-eye coordination.
Kids these days don't read books as much often as the older generation did back in the day, that is why kids are getting more stupid, at least thats what I think.
The reason I don't like it when people are bad typists is because it makes me think they're extremely stupid.
That's what's horrible about the internet. A reasonably smart person can sound like a <b>complete moron</b> if they're not very good at typing or want to type shorthand so it takes up less of their time. That can be overcome easily by not being lazy, but still.
Compare these two things:
"Hello, are we going to take your friend with us to the concert?"
"Hey r we going 2 tak ur friend w/us 2 teh conert??"
i have nothing against leet speak, abbreviations or SMS speak, so long as they are only used when appropriate, ie leet in games and abbreviations in irc when you cant type fast enough to keep up with the conversation, and SMS speak on phones where you have a letter limit that you dont want to go over because it will cost you another 10p.
so long as they stay there, thats fine. i do not like it when people use sms speak in essays (on on ucas applications) as it is just sad.
ok, ok, i sometimes use leet speak in real life, but only very occasionally and only when i am joking.
for example, the other day i was designing an access db and, for a input box to request the round number, for a laugh i put in "OMG J00 N00B J00 MU57 3NT3R 4 R0UND NUMB3R!!1!11ONEONE!1" but it didnt like it so i put it as something more sensible.
As z.x. bogglesteinsky said, i think each of these have a place, it's just when they collide. To be perfectly honest, i never use SMS speak, not even in SMS'. I'm just good at saying what i want to in a short space. As for IRC / ICQ / MSN / Forums /whatever other internet chat mediums, there's no reason or excuse to use SMS speak, it's just bad practice and extremely lazy, you have all the time in the world to sit here and type coherantly, and as far as the forum's concerned, if you make a mistake, you can always edit it later.
I mean really, it's not <i>that</i> hard now, is it?
However, i am kinda biased, i can type relatively quickly and make few errors, and any most typos i pick up as i go along automatically.
Well, this is an interesting topic and even though I tried to resist posting, I find myself, instead, typing away.
First off, I entered the computer communication world in the mid to late 80s on my $250 2400 baud modem. Sometime in the early 90s, kids started showing up using SMS speak (of course, it wasn't called "SMS" at that time). This was, obviously, not to be tolerated, and said individuals were taken aside and lashed. It was explained to them that anyone smart enough to use a computer should be able to type full sentences. Unfortunately, in the mid 90s, the internet became commercialized, the flood gates were opened, and everyone that could order a Dell or a Gateway computer showed up with a mouth full of jumbled letters and numbers.
Anyway, as to some of the arguments already posted in this thread:
1) It should be allowed because it's not how you say something but what you say.
This couldn't be further from the truth. When one dines at an expensive restaraunt, the way the food is presented is almost as important as the way it tastes. Almost all great leaders we've had throughout history have one thing in common; they were great orators. Language can provoke emotion in its (and no, there is no apostrophe when it is showing ownership) listeners and readers. If someone discovered a sure fire way of using chemical reactions in a costly manner to produce light-speed processors and submitted a report written in elite speak, I'd throw said report into the trash as would the majority of the scholastic world.
2) It's alright to simplify a language.
While I'm at it, I'll disagree with this statement as well. As I said above, language provokes emotion. Limiting its creative use by 'dumbing down' the language will destroy such things as literature and the ability to stir up a crowd. That's like saying we should abandon all colors of paint other than gray because the un-artistic can't be bothered to paint their living room any other color.
3) It's okay to use if you're a bad typer.
From Reservoir Dogs: "I have two words for you: learn to ****ing type."
4) It's fine to use as a joke.
I agree with this one. The existence of elite speak or SMS has given me the ability to type a single sentence and immediately announce that I am being sarcastic, humorous, and a dumb **** all at once. I use it on occasion for these very purposes and for that, I suppose I owe it a bit of gratitude.
All in all, SMS and elite speak are unreadable at worst and mildly amusing at best. At least they aren't as bad as e-thug speak; that just causes me to weep.
In case there are people that didn't understand my post above, I have rewritten it in SMS/elite/e-thug speak below.
Aight, hears da deal. I gotz into dis nerd **** back in da olskewl dayz. den dese fools started frontin wit dis lingo dat didn't make no damn sence. So we told em dat it was wack and put a cap in there ****. but den it gotz all messed up when commersals (sp?) started showin up in our hood and den every1 started acted like crazy fools.
Anywayz, hears some pointz I gotz ta make
1 - Itz how you say it
WTH? Dat's dum. Tupac preeched to us through his lyricz. he'd have been all dum and shiz if he'd have used da leet speek. When you getz a burger you wants ur friez lookin all good.
2 - Dat language is too damn tuff
Dat's dum two. I mean, peeps can't be expressin demselves correctly witout all dem english werds.
3 - I suck **** at typing, yo!
I gotz two werds 4 u: u's a dum ****
4 - It's coo 2 b all humorin wit it
Ya, I be on the agree seen wit dis one. its funny when fools talk dis way
I cant belief all dis dum talk. Im outta here, PEACE!
I am repeating myself now, due to another thread started elsewhere, but....
I'm fine with a bit of short hand, i.e. "inc hive", instead of "there are 3 skulks a fade and a lerk approaching our hive, they will be here any second." I'm also ok with having a laugh a joke and saying stuff like "rox0r" "pwn!" "tbh" or "w00t!". What bothers me is bad use of the english language and lack of grammar and the fact that people don't know when it's use is inappropriate. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
My main pet peeve however, is there, their, they're, you, you're, very basic english, people shouldn't need to think about it. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
you're = you are your = belonging to
there = a place their = a person they're = they are
<!--QuoteBegin--Butt monkey salad+Jul 15 2003, 09:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Butt monkey salad @ Jul 15 2003, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I like how on the AAO forums, the word "n00b", for example, is always automatically replaced with "inexperienced player" when u submit a post. Not sure about the word l337 though. I too would rather have it replaced with something simple like "aiming-professionist" or something of the like.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1 3 3 7 gets replaced by "elite"
Don't use nub in replacement of noob or newbie...it's just incredibly stupid. Not only is it not pronounced like noob, nub is a word itself already, look it up:
<i>nub</i> n. <b>1.</b> A protuberance or knob. <b>2.</b> A small lump or piece. <b>3.</b> <i>(informal)</i> the gist or point: the nub of a story. [variant of knob from middle low german knubbe, knot on a tree, variant of knobbe. See also knob]
Now remember, the next time you see someone say nub, instead of taking the extra effort to type noob or newbie, inform them of their idiocy and ignorance! Nub cannot be pronounced like noob, no matter how much you want it to be. It breaks the pronounciation rules and stuff.
Listening to: Addicted, by Simple Plan ...I'm addicted to beating morons.
<!--QuoteBegin--UltimaGecko+Jul 17 2003, 09:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Jul 17 2003, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now remember, the next time you see someone say nub, instead of taking the extra effort to type noob or newbie, inform them of their idiocy and ignorance! Nub cannot be pronounced like noob, no matter how much you want it to be. It breaks the pronounciation rules and stuff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nub isn't intended to sound like "Noob" or "Newb". It's intended to sound like "Nub". Besides, the whole nub thing is supposed to be semi-humourous, we know it has a "Real" meaning, but we don't much care <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
L337 speak has got to be one of the more frustrating things I have come across... The only thing that annoys me more is the horrible bastardization (mebbe spelled right?) of English that I see in AIM every day.
Especially with the girls, who appear to have some odd infatuation with using it. God only knows why, but they think it is cute (as opposed to a sign of stupidity, ignorance, general laziness, et cetera).
In school, I've seen couples passing notes written almost entirely in AIM speak. Talking about their BF, or what have you. It is truly sickening to watch. On a phone, I can dig using abbreviations... but on AIM, learn to type! You have 107+ keys, use them (but... not in L337 :: me twitches:: ).
Now, some things I have to put up with. I use L337 with my friends in AIM, whenever I am trying to be sarcastic, and it works... But I don't write whole pages of the stuff. Anyway, L337 isn't as annoying as AIM speak (Similar to SMS...?).
One thing about grammar, though. Somebody said earlier about Latin being a pain in the neck, and thus Greek was spoken instead; this makes sense. Latin is an utter pain in the *ss to learn. Right now, I am taking it in school, and have found that it is really helpful in understanding/improving my English grammar. I really like its precision, and its ability to say things without having too much ambiguity (mebbe also spelled wrong). Misspelling is acceptable, I guess, as long as it is done to make a point, or is an honest typo. misspelling on purpose is ridiculous. "Mebbe" is my way of spelling maybe when I want it to have a certain inflection behind it, which is otherwise hard to express while typing.
That's about all for now, but there is one question I would like to ask...
When one is using parantheses (I am positive that is spelled wrong) at the end of a sentence, do you punctuate inside it and not put a period afterwards, or not:
I went to the park (My mom used to take me there.)
Punctuate at the end. EDIT: WITHOUT the dot inside the brackets.
I am pretty competent in english spelling just because I'm italian and many words from english derived from latin, just like parentesi which in english is parenthesis <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. In fact I see many people with english as mother tongue misspell many words that I can spell correctly, just because they are latin derived :|
Hey, punctuate too is derived from latin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->, italian is punto, which is dot. Punteggiare= punctuate.
I punctuate. I am punctuated. I will punctuate. I will be punctuated. I was punctuating. I was being punctuated. I punctuated. I was punctuated. I had punctuated. I had been punctuated. I will have punctuated. I will have been punctuated.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
I like it, but only when I wanna say something that no one cares about. Other than that, I'll say to myself when I nail 3 skulks in one clip "Look at my l337 skillz!".
Thats about it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Just because you've still not got your first kill in NS yet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
**** I told you that in confidence esuna!!!
Now they all know how un-"elite" I am <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
How will I live?!?
We still love you ;x
Not everyone is as good as me xD
i Pwn j00 4ll h4x0rz im t3h winAr!!!1!1one!
SMS messaging gets right on my ****. Sure it may take up less characters for a text message, but it looks totally stupid. My friend does it all the time, and I told him to stop doing it all the time, because it looks so gimmicky. It reminds me of those AWFUL shops like 'Trading 4 U' and 'Quik Fit.' And past it song writers like Rod Stewart and Blonde (Blondy - however it's spelt) seem to think it's cool and hip, releasing songs and albums along the lines of, 'I'll b there 4 u!'
WHEN WILL IT STOP!
And these stupid abbreviations DO affect people's writing skills. My friend wrote his Personal Statement for his UCAS application this year (I don't know if you have this in the states, but here you have to a few paragraphs on why you are good for this course and stuff, and it has to be absolutely perfect), and he'd actually used 4, U, B, instead of for, you, be respectively. He'd even not bothered using capitals for beginning of sentences!
I am totally against l337 speak for these reasons, though I do sometimes use it as a joke, so long as it makes sense.
"I am totally l337" or something, that I can deal with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
even in written english, it shouldnt matter because a language is to pass along ideas. are we limiting the audience to whom the ideas may be passed? (yeah i said whom) do we care if certain old people dont knwo what a w00t is? shouldnt they be able to gather from context clues that it is an exclamation of joy? do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***?
even in written english, it shouldnt matter because a language is to pass along ideas. are we limiting the audience to whom the ideas may be passed? (yeah i said whom) do we care if certain old people dont knwo what a w00t is? shouldnt they be able to gather from context clues that it is an exclamation of joy? do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
When i see a sentence like "2nite do u want 2 go 2 the mall 2 b with jamie. c u l8er" i know for a FACT i can't be bothered to read it. It just doesn't seem like the effort. Kids being brought up and feeling that this desecration of the language is acceptable are slowly isolating us people that actually write the language as it should do. Which, i might add, is pretty much everyone over 20.
I concur.
its complex grammatical rules turned the general public away from latin and even people in rome spoke greek instead. it was simply too much effort that was uneccessary for everyday life. surely, latin was kept for scientific uses for hundreds of years, but it was lost from the populace quite early on. many languages are simply bastardizations of latin, remove some verb endings and change some nown endings, then mess with dialectical pernounciation and youve got spanish, italian and french. (spanish and french are spoken in a hundred countries)
you cant tell me a language loses its sovereign merit simply because it is a degredation of another language. so long as these "SMS kiddies" communicate in an understandable way, and have the ability to switch to the aristocratic language of "high english" upon command, there is no harm being done.
this is the future in the making. you guys sound like Red Foreman when his son Eric says far out and groovy.
edit: i hope its legal to ahve a "discussion" in this forum <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
UCAS give flying f***s! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
even in written english, it shouldnt matter because a language is to pass along ideas. are we limiting the audience to whom the ideas may be passed? (yeah i said whom) do we care if certain old people dont knwo what a w00t is? shouldnt they be able to gather from context clues that it is an exclamation of joy? do i have any need to use a capitol letter? did i spell capital right? does anyone give a flying f***? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When i see a sentence like "2nite do u want 2 go 2 the mall 2 b with jamie. c u l8er" i know for a FACT i can't be bothered to read it. It just doesn't seem like the effort. Kids being brought up and feeling that this desecration of the language is acceptable are slowly isolating us people that actually write the language as it should do. Which, i might add, is pretty much everyone over 20.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any problem then? They'll just grow up and start to realize how dumb they're sounding, then gradually start writing properly again.
yeah thats why you dont hear your parents saying groovy and "far out man" and why we wont be saying "fo' shizzle ma' nizzle" to mean "truely"
the mroe outrageous slang dies off as you incorporate into the adult culture, so it takes two or three generations to really make change. in fact a lot of our standard words nowadays were invented in the twenties. (i really wish i had an example right here..)
"Cool" was invented some years ago, and is now normal language for anyone any age. even your grandma knows it doesnt refer to temperature.
i dont believe SMS speak will become standard, but my original point is; who cares if it does?
And herein lies the problem...
Once I was at a cousin's house and I was looking at his AIM conversations. These 12-year-olds spell 'you' as 'yooh' and 'fine' as 'fione'. It seems like they're raping the English language because they can.
It's kind of sad to see the line between casual communication and formal communication being blurred and erased. Not to say it's necessarily a bad thing, but how seriously will you take someone if they write or type or goodness forbid talk as if they were using an IM service?
That's not 13e7 (ha! take THAT, swearfilter!). That's "I-type-too-slowly-to-type-properly", and it annoys the hell out of me, while 13e7 doesn't.
I use it to make jokes. Like writing my obligatory pseudocode for lab pracs at uni in l3e7 (because I hate pseudocode).
Well the fione one is simply a common typeo, as the i and o keys are very close to each other. Just as the p often replaces o because they are very close. How can you get angry at someone simply because they are not the best typists in the world? Perhaps they simply have not been typeing for very long, or have awful hand-eye coordination.
That's what's horrible about the internet. A reasonably smart person can sound like a <b>complete moron</b> if they're not very good at typing or want to type shorthand so it takes up less of their time. That can be overcome easily by not being lazy, but still.
Compare these two things:
"Hello, are we going to take your friend with us to the concert?"
"Hey r we going 2 tak ur friend w/us 2 teh conert??"
...and which one sounds more intelligent?
i have nothing against leet speak, abbreviations or SMS speak, so long as they are only used when appropriate, ie leet in games and abbreviations in irc when you cant type fast enough to keep up with the conversation, and SMS speak on phones where you have a letter limit that you dont want to go over because it will cost you another 10p.
so long as they stay there, thats fine. i do not like it when people use sms speak in essays (on on ucas applications) as it is just sad.
ok, ok, i sometimes use leet speak in real life, but only very occasionally and only when i am joking.
for example, the other day i was designing an access db and, for a input box to request the round number, for a laugh i put in "OMG J00 N00B J00 MU57 3NT3R 4 R0UND NUMB3R!!1!11ONEONE!1" but it didnt like it so i put it as something more sensible.
I mean really, it's not <i>that</i> hard now, is it?
However, i am kinda biased, i can type relatively quickly and make few errors, and any most typos i pick up as i go along automatically.
First off, I entered the computer communication world in the mid to late 80s on my $250 2400 baud modem. Sometime in the early 90s, kids started showing up using SMS speak (of course, it wasn't called "SMS" at that time). This was, obviously, not to be tolerated, and said individuals were taken aside and lashed. It was explained to them that anyone smart enough to use a computer should be able to type full sentences. Unfortunately, in the mid 90s, the internet became commercialized, the flood gates were opened, and everyone that could order a Dell or a Gateway computer showed up with a mouth full of jumbled letters and numbers.
Anyway, as to some of the arguments already posted in this thread:
1) It should be allowed because it's not how you say something but what you say.
This couldn't be further from the truth. When one dines at an expensive restaraunt, the way the food is presented is almost as important as the way it tastes. Almost all great leaders we've had throughout history have one thing in common; they were great orators. Language can provoke emotion in its (and no, there is no apostrophe when it is showing ownership) listeners and readers. If someone discovered a sure fire way of using chemical reactions in a costly manner to produce light-speed processors and submitted a report written in elite speak, I'd throw said report into the trash as would the majority of the scholastic world.
2) It's alright to simplify a language.
While I'm at it, I'll disagree with this statement as well. As I said above, language provokes emotion. Limiting its creative use by 'dumbing down' the language will destroy such things as literature and the ability to stir up a crowd. That's like saying we should abandon all colors of paint other than gray because the un-artistic can't be bothered to paint their living room any other color.
3) It's okay to use if you're a bad typer.
From Reservoir Dogs: "I have two words for you: learn to ****ing type."
4) It's fine to use as a joke.
I agree with this one. The existence of elite speak or SMS has given me the ability to type a single sentence and immediately announce that I am being sarcastic, humorous, and a dumb **** all at once. I use it on occasion for these very purposes and for that, I suppose I owe it a bit of gratitude.
All in all, SMS and elite speak are unreadable at worst and mildly amusing at best. At least they aren't as bad as e-thug speak; that just causes me to weep.
Aight, hears da deal. I gotz into dis nerd **** back in da olskewl dayz. den dese fools started frontin wit dis lingo dat didn't make no damn sence. So we told em dat it was wack and put a cap in there ****. but den it gotz all messed up when commersals (sp?) started showin up in our hood and den every1 started acted like crazy fools.
Anywayz, hears some pointz I gotz ta make
1 - Itz how you say it
WTH? Dat's dum. Tupac preeched to us through his lyricz. he'd have been all dum and shiz if he'd have used da leet speek. When you getz a burger you wants ur friez lookin all good.
2 - Dat language is too damn tuff
Dat's dum two. I mean, peeps can't be expressin demselves correctly witout all dem english werds.
3 - I suck **** at typing, yo!
I gotz two werds 4 u: u's a dum ****
4 - It's coo 2 b all humorin wit it
Ya, I be on the agree seen wit dis one. its funny when fools talk dis way
I cant belief all dis dum talk. Im outta here, PEACE!
I'm fine with a bit of short hand, i.e. "inc hive", instead of "there are 3 skulks a fade and a lerk approaching our hive, they will be here any second." I'm also ok with having a laugh a joke and saying stuff like "rox0r" "pwn!" "tbh" or "w00t!". What bothers me is bad use of the english language and lack of grammar and the fact that people don't know when it's use is inappropriate. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
My main pet peeve however, is there, their, they're, you, you're, very basic english, people shouldn't need to think about it. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
you're = you are
your = belonging to
there = a place
their = a person
they're = they are
to = somewhere you're going
too = also
two = 2
hmm, I feel a sig coming on...
1 3 3 7 gets replaced by "elite"
"elite"
"elite"
Don't use nub in replacement of noob or newbie...it's just incredibly stupid. Not only is it not pronounced like noob, nub is a word itself already, look it up:
<i>nub</i> n. <b>1.</b> A protuberance or knob. <b>2.</b> A small lump or piece. <b>3.</b> <i>(informal)</i> the gist or point: the nub of a story. [variant of knob from middle low german knubbe, knot on a tree, variant of knobbe. See also knob]
Now remember, the next time you see someone say nub, instead of taking the extra effort to type noob or newbie, inform them of their idiocy and ignorance! Nub cannot be pronounced like noob, no matter how much you want it to be. It breaks the pronounciation rules and stuff.
Listening to: Addicted, by Simple Plan
...I'm addicted to beating morons.
Nub isn't intended to sound like "Noob" or "Newb". It's intended to sound like "Nub". Besides, the whole nub thing is supposed to be semi-humourous, we know it has a "Real" meaning, but we don't much care <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nubcaek.
L337 speak has got to be one of the more frustrating things I have come across... The only thing that annoys me more is the horrible bastardization (mebbe spelled right?) of English that I see in AIM every day.
Especially with the girls, who appear to have some odd infatuation with using it. God only knows why, but they think it is cute (as opposed to a sign of stupidity, ignorance, general laziness, et cetera).
In school, I've seen couples passing notes written almost entirely in AIM speak. Talking about their BF, or what have you. It is truly sickening to watch. On a phone, I can dig using abbreviations... but on AIM, learn to type! You have 107+ keys, use them (but... not in L337 :: me twitches:: ).
Now, some things I have to put up with. I use L337 with my friends in AIM, whenever I am trying to be sarcastic, and it works... But I don't write whole pages of the stuff. Anyway, L337 isn't as annoying as AIM speak (Similar to SMS...?).
One thing about grammar, though. Somebody said earlier about Latin being a pain in the neck, and thus Greek was spoken instead; this makes sense. Latin is an utter pain in the *ss to learn. Right now, I am taking it in school, and have found that it is really helpful in understanding/improving my English grammar. I really like its precision, and its ability to say things without having too much ambiguity (mebbe also spelled wrong).
Misspelling is acceptable, I guess, as long as it is done to make a point, or is an honest typo. misspelling on purpose is ridiculous. "Mebbe" is my way of spelling maybe when I want it to have a certain inflection behind it, which is otherwise hard to express while typing.
That's about all for now, but there is one question I would like to ask...
When one is using parantheses (I am positive that is spelled wrong) at the end of a sentence, do you punctuate inside it and not put a period afterwards, or not:
I went to the park (My mom used to take me there.)
Or do punctuate at the end of it:
... me there.).
?
EDIT: WITHOUT the dot inside the brackets.
I am pretty competent in english spelling just because I'm italian and many words from english derived from latin, just like parentesi which in english is parenthesis <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. In fact I see many people with english as mother tongue misspell many words that I can spell correctly, just because they are latin derived :|
Hey, punctuate too is derived from latin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->, italian is punto, which is dot. Punteggiare= punctuate.
I am punctuated.
I will punctuate.
I will be punctuated.
I was punctuating.
I was being punctuated.
I punctuated.
I was punctuated.
I had punctuated.
I had been punctuated.
I will have punctuated.
I will have been punctuated.
Did I get all those tenses right?
Thats about it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->