Hl engine = piece of crap ?
Hilfe
Join Date: 2002-07-16 Member: 957Members
Join Date: 2002-07-16 Member: 957Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Yeah you heard it !</div>Hi, well my "hello" post is in the official "hello" thread, so i'll not ... herm well lets forget it.
Okay, some ppl might remember me, if they are sitting in the irc chat. The other day, i gently asked why NS has been made for HL. -> under heavy fire of troll.
Yes, because i'm not in love with HL engine/valve/sierra. So, why not made this mod for Quake3 ? Yatta yatta, you'll awnswer the casuals things like: "the mod community" "the way to code fast" blabla. But you must admit that, Quake3 got a way better engine than the weak HL. Imagine how could be the gfx / sound 3d effect with Quake3 engine ? But well, no i'm just dreaming.
Now, because its your fault when NS is out, i will search my HL box somewhere in my house if i haven't burned it already by the time.
Instead of that, i'm pure NS fan, the only thing annoying me is HL crap. So go NS team, your choice was maybe wrong from point of view, but i know noone cares of the graphic engine, because anyway i'll wet my pants the first time i'll play it.
And now release your flame ignorant flamers trolls or lets speak gently about HL engine, its advantages and/or disadvantages.
Okay, some ppl might remember me, if they are sitting in the irc chat. The other day, i gently asked why NS has been made for HL. -> under heavy fire of troll.
Yes, because i'm not in love with HL engine/valve/sierra. So, why not made this mod for Quake3 ? Yatta yatta, you'll awnswer the casuals things like: "the mod community" "the way to code fast" blabla. But you must admit that, Quake3 got a way better engine than the weak HL. Imagine how could be the gfx / sound 3d effect with Quake3 engine ? But well, no i'm just dreaming.
Now, because its your fault when NS is out, i will search my HL box somewhere in my house if i haven't burned it already by the time.
Instead of that, i'm pure NS fan, the only thing annoying me is HL crap. So go NS team, your choice was maybe wrong from point of view, but i know noone cares of the graphic engine, because anyway i'll wet my pants the first time i'll play it.
And now release your flame ignorant flamers trolls or lets speak gently about HL engine, its advantages and/or disadvantages.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Despite its relative age, the HL engine is not a piece of crap. In fact, Valve is constantly discovering new ways to optimize the code and make it more suited to more recent software evolutions, like playing games on a NT-based platform. And while we may not exactly like the "evil three" of Valve, Gearbox and Sierra, it helps to remember that Raven and iD are not exactly angels either.
Plus, Flayra has expressed a desire to play NS on his "boatanchor" laptop, which only really supports software rendering. While my laptop is less of a boatanchor, it has the same rendering issue and I would love to be able to play NS on it, on the road. Q3 does not even have a software rendering mode.
I would prefer to leave NS on the HL engine though. Why? Because HL is still selling, I still see it whenever I go to EB, Quake 3 however, I do not find. Possibly the popularity of the game partly influenced their choice of game engines?
Yes, the HL engine is not the best out there. Yes, maybe the Q3 engine is prettier. But Valve has some of the best mod support of any company, and 4 years after release the Halflife engine is still getting unbelievable amounts of play online through mods like CounterStrike and (soon) Natural Selection. You won't find many serious FPS gamers who *don't* have Halflife, even if it's not installed at the moment. Q3? UT? The probability isn't as good. I don't own either.
You say you brought this up in IRC, and people gave you reasons for making NS for HL. Why, praytell, are you bringing it up again in the forums? People have already told you the answer, and I'm sure I said nothing you haven't already heard. So apparently you don't listen well.
Finally, it's really a moot point, anyway. NS has been in production almost TWO YEARS and Flayra is not going to scrap it and start fresh just because *you* don't like the HL engine.
*****
I don't mind discussing the pros and cons of the HL engine. But keep NS out of it - that conversation is pointless. Can this get moved to off-topic?
first, in my opinion, calling 50 % of the community trolls is a <i>really</i> bad way of starting, but well, that's up to you.
On topic, I'm sorry, but what are the great advantages of Q3? Granted, it's a little easier to make maps look good, but don't forget that the Q3 engine was built specifically for relatively small levels with high gamespeed. It is possible to use it for other purposes - MoHAA has shown this - but in that case, the map will eat hardware like EBnar cake.
Also, there <i>are</i>, as you admit yourself, a lot of advantages to HL like the very well documented SDK, the C++ code instead of scripting languages, the huge possible audiencde, the offered help of Valve themselves ... the list goes on.
I don't want to make a religion out of the HL engine, but until Doom3 and U2 hit the shelves, it's simply the most versatile engine available to modders.
But now the blockbuster (i hate this name) is a mod for HL. I'm sure i'll dont care when i'll play NS when i'll see the poor HL engine gfx but well i can't stop myself thinking about NS on Quake3.
NSq3! <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
But please your next SFi mod please leave HL !
(edit) yes some ppl gave me good reasons but most of them was just flaming on the IRC chat.
No, i'm not asking at the end of the fist beta release to change engine ... i'm not stupid like that. I'm just starting a debat about HL engine.
Yes, Quake3 engine at the start has been made for little "skirmish". So i was thinking, its what NS need, no ?
(/edit)
p.s. try not to be so lame in future
The reason NS will support software rendering is not so I can play it, but so that more people can play NS. It wasn't a small decision to make.
If I was starting NS all over again, I would still pick the Half-life engine. It has the most versatility, is written in C/C++, has the widest install base (by far), and has Valve at the helm, constantly adding new technologies like Steam, spectator tech, integrated voice, etc.
If you want a graphically amazing game with few players and essentially a zero possibility of getting into retail or becoming widespread, you can go with the Quake engine, UT engine, or whatever the flavor of the month is. If you want a game that will reach many people, look nice (not necessarily the best out there, but NS does not look dated IMHO), get into all those cyber-cafes around the world, and maybe get into retail, then Half-life is the best choice. I know which I prefer.
Like the others said, the HL community is more mod supportive. Look at all the great mods out there. Look at Counter-strike. Look at Day of Defeat. Look at the future Natural-Selection. Look at Firearms. 4 very popular mods that gather a few thousand servers no to mention the tens of thousands of people playing them.
I happen to love FPSes, but I do not own Quake 3 and havn't played UT for over a year. Valve does tons to make its engine better.
Nope.
Natural Selection maps tend to be helluva widespread, and the gameplay of the marines is actually supposed to be pretty slow.
From the NS.org FAQ:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Are you guys looking for a publisher or distributor?</b>
We will release Natural Selection for free, but if you also want to put Natural Selection in a box for us or otherwise give us enough money to keep making games we want to make, we'd love to hear from you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're making it for the love of the game. But of course no one minds being payed to do something they love.
Yup that's why i bring this HL engine discussion, because in the IRC chat i was getting awnswer like that. "You don't think like, you just sh*t, so shaddup".
Did i said, NS look amateurs ? No. Did i said this mod is just another deadleaving one, CS is teh win? No. I'm just saying that, HL engine is too old, and i dont like it. Plus i hate the combo Sierra/valve/gearbox.
But, now if i understood correctly, your goal Flayra is making a mod based on HL just because maybe you can reach the status of CS and get your mod retailed ?
(edit)
instead of Q3based mod (or whatever engine) and making the mod looks nicer (ns looks already nice but its still HL engine)
(/edit)
Light my way.
BTW Flayra: Are you going to make a retail game after NS gets up and running well? That is what I would expect if NS is as popular as it looks like it is going to be.
BTW: Sierra/Valve has supported Half-Life very well. They release a patch every other month. That is pretty good when you realize that Sierra has not released a patch for Homeworld: Cataclysm (The game that ###### me off so much) for over a year. Cataclysm has many many bugs.
Wrong... he's making it because he loves gaming and wants to create something for the gaming community. Of course he wants it to be a successful mod; he wants to reach and appeal to a large number of people. NS combines RTS, teamplay, and deathmatch all in one - there isn't a game on the market or mod on the web right now that does that.
If it retailed, that'd be fabulous. Hell, I'd probably buy it as a "you rock" to Flayra. But if it never retails, I'm betting Flay's still gonna be real happy with it. It's a great mod.
Make this thread go away. eesh.
I second this motion.
Everything was said, two seconds more and we'll have our very first flamewar.
HL engine > Q3A, HL = bunny hop and I can't see aliens on the freaking Q3A engine...think about it.
No reason to flame this dude either, I think it's a pretty good topic...
You said that most of Half-Life's success is due to CS...I know a lot of people (including me) would be playing other HL MODs if CS didn't exist. And CS r0x anyway so it deserves success :-D
Quality Mods:
CS
DOD
FIREARMS
S&I
Also, Flayra has managed to code....
A particle system
volumetric flame
Wall climbing
The only thing I don't think you can code on the Half-Life engine is Geo-Mod. Besides, we've waited long enough, just release the damn game!
Q3A ->
*Urban Terror
*Q3 fortress (yes the flame gfx just sux but the whole gameplay is exellent)
*Navy Seals
and not mods but retail games:
*moh:aa
*RtCW
Ah yes one the main reason i dislike HL engine is the flamethrower, omg c'mon ... RtCW flame gfx ist just plain awnsome, can you make it in HL ? No <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo--> Is there a pic of flame gfx in NS somewhere ?
And the reason they chose Half-Life is most likely because lots of people play HL, it's stable, and it's easier to code than other games... yeah. Other stuff. If they chose Q3, it'd be harder to code. It might look better, but it would be quite difficult to code for, and not many people would play it, because not many people play Q3, even if there's a good mod for it.
<a href="http://valve.speakeasy.net/survey/" target="_blank">Speakeasy Gaming Hardware Survey</a>
As you can see, approximately 50% (of a <b>million</b> respondents, out of 6 million Valve customers) don't have sufficient hardware to run the more bleeding-edge engines that iD, Epic, and Raven have put out in the past few years. That means that in the dog-eat-dog world of mods, you double your player population. This is a key aspect if you want your mod to even end up on people's desktops.
<!--EDIT|humbaba|July 16 2002,14:00-->
Okay, some ppl might remember me, if they are sitting in the irc chat. The other day, i gently asked why NS has been made for HL. -> under heavy fire of troll.
Yes, because i'm not in love with HL engine/valve/sierra. So, why not made this mod for Quake3 ? Yatta yatta, you'll awnswer the casuals things like: "the mod community" "the way to code fast" blabla. But you must admit that, Quake3 got a way better engine than the weak HL. Imagine how could be the gfx / sound 3d effect with Quake3 engine ? But well, no i'm just dreaming.
Now, because its your fault when NS is out, i will search my HL box somewhere in my house if i haven't burned it already by the time.
Instead of that, i'm pure NS fan, the only thing annoying me is HL crap. So go NS team, your choice was maybe wrong from point of view, but i know noone cares of the graphic engine, because anyway i'll wet my pants the first time i'll play it.
And now release your flame ignorant flamers trolls or lets speak gently about HL engine, its advantages and/or disadvantages.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NEVER! DONT DO IT! aarrgghh, it must be for hl engine now that its been for this for like 2 years! and yea, quake3 but all the servers lag way to bad. oh yea, and bunny hopping isnt cheating if you didnt know <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->