Bots Are A Menace To All Mankind

WarpZone · July 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Please remove them from your servers.</div> I am speaking to you, Mr. or Mrs. Public Server Runner. Please, I beg you, take the bots off of your server. I know, I know, you want your server to look busy so you can trick people into joining. And yes, I understand that when people started joining your server, pressing Tab to check the names of the other players, and then immediately leaving, you had no choice but to remove [I'm a bot] tags from their names. But surely you realize that the complete lack of infantry portals and the three marines stuck in the vents or in the pit under that one hive are a dead giveaway?

And what's with this begging for sg factories all over the place? As soon as a commander (or any other marine, for that matter) sees those messages, he figures out what's going on and switches servers.

If you want to trick people into thinking your server is cool, I suggest you accomplish this using methods other than bots. Maybe spell the name of your server simmilar to a popular one. Or start a thread in the NS forums and make up anecdotes about all the great games you're pretending you played on your server. But please, for the love of god, if you want to trick players into joining your server, PLEASE do so without bots. Not only will it make me and other players like me happy, and allow at least a slim possibility of teamwork, but you will also get more repeat business, and people won't be logging off as soon as they figure it out.

Byeka · July 2003

So you automatically assume that's the reason ppl use bots? I suggest you have proof before you complain.

WarpZone · July 2003

Well, I mean, I <b>assume</b> that's why. I can't really think of any other use for them. Unless somebody said to themselves "You know, NS is kinda fun, but it would be even better if half of the players kept getting lost and refusing to follow orders and begged for seige factories when you're already trying to tell them to build one 20 feet from where they're begging."

I suppose it's possible that the server operator is the bot-writer, and he's testing his creations. But that only accounts for one or two servers, and I'm discarding dozens trying to find a decent game.

And anyway, it really doesn't matter <i>what</i> reason admins have for using bots, all they do is make the game worse. They don't actually <i>ruin</i> the game like they used to, but they're still pointless and annoying. I'd rather have a small group of living, thinking players I know I can count on than have half of my team running around in circles begging for ammo and seiges.

At least with a human player, there's a CHANCE if you type "don't attack" they won't try to knife the res tower. But bots can't learn, don't think, and won't listen. The ONLY thing about bots that is any fun at all is getting easy kills when you encounter an enemy bot, and I don't think it makes up for the ammount of fun bots remove from a game.

venomus · July 2003

LOL yeah I know what you mean <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> It's kinda annoying to be expecting a good game while you wait to connect, then after playing for a few mins you wonder why everyone is so quiet, and keeps staring the walls. Then you press tab and check the pings, and realise you've just wasted 5 mins on a bunch of idiot automatons <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> .

But I think maybe they don't realise how truly useless most NS bots still are. After all there are decent CS and TFC bots out there. And NS is a lot more demanding than those games so you'll probably have to wait a while before they come up with worthy NS bots (if ever).

[WHO]Them · July 2003

I don't think you realize just how mind numbingly frustrating it is to fill a server warpzone.

I've run gaming servers for just over 3 years now. And even in the peak of my clan's popularity in Counter-Strike we still had a whole server that was empty 24/7 whilst maintaining 2 that were constantly full.

There was nothing wrong or sub-par with the third server. In fact it was probably better hardware than the other two. And was on the same connection as our most popular server (some crazy .edu pipe that I can't even guess the speed on).

It stayed empty yet publically available 24 hours a day for 3 whole months. I ran all sorts of tests on it and sure enough everything worked fine. But for some reason it just never got a following. Keep in mind that there was a lesser server on that same connection running 20 players just fine and was almost always full.

The truth is that 98% of all players on pubs are the most demanding little whiners you can imagine sometimes and don't care one bit about supporting the servers they frequent.

So I say to you, if you don't like a server, then just hush up and move on.

WarpZone · July 2003

Well, when I want to play NS, I search for a server that's not full and not empty. This leaves me with a few 19/20s and some 6/20s. Before bots existed for NS, I found play on the 6/20s the most entertaining. But now anytime you see a 6/20, it usually means that there's one player playing on the alien team, two marines wating to spawn, three marines wandering around the spawn and no IPs anywhere on the map.

And who cares (pardon the pun) if you have three servers and one of them is empty all the time? Either drop that server or use it for some nice private pre-planned games.

[WHO]Them · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WarpZone @ Jul 7 2003, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> And who cares (pardon the pun) if you have three servers and one of them is empty all the time? Either drop that server or use it for some nice private pre-planned games.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I see that you missed the point of the story entirely.

WarpZone · July 2003

Maybe we're looking at the whole server thing differently. To me, it doesn't matter what server I'm playing on. I just want to play a fun game of NS. That means the metamods running that day, the maps in the rotation, and most importantly, the other players, are what makes a difference. Not the name of the server.

I'll grant you, heavily-adminned servers are usually better than non-adminned. And the best servers try out all the new plugins, keeping only the ones they think make the game more fun. But I have never encountered any server that gives me a perfect game every time. So when I play NS, I look around, hop from server to server, and when I start having a good time, that's my server for that session.

Since bots came out, it's been harder and harder to find a good server. That's all I'm saying with my initial post.

I have to admit, you're right. I'm really not sure what you were trying to say in your post. It sounds like you're saying you want your servers to be full all the time, and that you find doing so to be difficult, since in the past no matter what you did, you always had one empty server and two full ones, for your CS clan.

You talk about players "supporting" individual servers. That sounds like you're talking about a much more tightly-knit community than most casual public servers have. Although, that makes sense, given you're looking at the issue from a clan perspective.

I'm not sure if I made this clear in my initial post, but I was talking about public servers.

Also, I'd like to apologize for the sarcastic tone in my first post. I was kinda frustrated from trying to find a decent server when I typed that. The truth is: I have no idea why some admins (a growing number of them) decide to use bots. I can't immagine why anyone would want to fill their server with really lousy, sometimes helpless players that fight poorly and cannot be reasoned with. I intended this post as a wake-up call to public server admins: <b>Your bots are scaring away all the actual players.</b>

That's just my opinion, of course.

If any of you players out there actually <i>prefer</i> a public server with bots, feel free to talk about it here. I'd sure like to know <i>why.</i> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

[WHO]Them · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WarpZone @ Jul 8 2003, 01:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I have to admit, you're right. I'm really not sure what you were trying to say in your post. It sounds like you're saying you want your servers to be full all the time, and that you find doing so to be difficult, since in the past no matter what you did, you always had one empty server and two full ones, for your CS clan.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
what I'm saying is NOT that it's hard to keep a server full.... It's nearly impossible to just get one started. that's why people run bots. I've played with bots myself and found them to be highly effective in getting a couple regulars to start joining my servers in the past.

WarpZone · July 2003

Hmmm. I see.

Well, I don't think bots are an attraction in NS, I think they're a deterrant. And apparently, venomus agrees with me. I don't know how many players agree with me on this, but if people <i>actually are</i> staying and playing in bot-filled servers, well, apparently venomus and I are wrong, then.

Have you had experience with NS servers? Or just CS? It's already been said that CS and TFC had better, more effective bots than NS.

I would like to point out that some of these are servers where, just a few weeks ago, I could join a game with 4-6 people and have a decent time. Now they're clogged with players of sub-newbie inteligence and a ping of exactly 5. And often, no actual players.

This is purely anecdotal, though. I haven't done a survey or anything. Come to think of it, you're server operators, so you should already have the numbers. So I guess, go ahead and do whatever you think is best.

I just don't like bots. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Eclipser · July 2003

People just don't like being on empty servers. Take TFZ 1 and TFZ 2 for example. TFZ1 is almost always full, but TFZ2 is almost always completely empty. Admins will occasionally drop in TFZ1 and say "Don't forget we have another server!"

How many people leave the full server to go to the empty TFZ2 server? None.

No one wants to sit around in an empty server on the off chance that someone might join them, and few people want to join a server with one person to play a 1v1 (One marine constantly popping in and out of the CC to build stuff and one alien who spends almost the entire game as a gorge).

You say that you search for servers that are not full and are not empty. I use these same criteria, and the majority of players probably do as well. If people don't want to join an empty server, how is that empty server ever going to get some players?

With some well-configured bots, a person will see a server with 6 people and join it. Yeah, bots can be boring, but it's at least some entertainment while waiting for more players. As more humans join, the bots will start to quit, leaving just the humans to play against each other.

Please note that I'm not saying that bots are great to play with in a 10v10 game. I'm saying that bots can be used to attract people into a server that would otherwise be empty, and that the bots can be phased out as real humans emter the server.

That_Annoying_Kid · July 2003

some servers use a bot that just sits there to make it so that it isn't discluded when you have your filters set to only server w/ players, and also whicbots although cpu intensive can be very fun to play against, 3 WB and a human should be more than a match for 4 pubers, I recall the topic of bots on server being brought up here more than once, and last time my response was "it's there server, they probabaly have a reason for the bots and they can do what they wan't, you don't like it? don't play there"

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

devicenull · July 2003

I'd prefer the server I play on run 1 (one) bot, this way.. if I join when it is empty except for the bot, I can practice comming, or have a chance to shoot at stuff while I wait for a human player to join.. then the bot can be removed...

Do you know how boring it is to have to sit on a empty map? What about sitting on it for 5-20 minutes?

[WHO]Them · July 2003

believe me. People that run their own servers are quite familiar with playing on an empty map for up to 2 hours straight. It just comes with the territory.

And yes WarpZone, I do have NS experience, just not a very relevant story for NS since I only ran one server for it and thusly have nothing to guage the difficulty of attracting players against. Although I did run bots and found the server to become more and more filled almost immediately after their addition.

MasterShake · July 2003

A good tactic for keeping players is to run an adminmod script that automatically switches to a popular map when your player count goes down to zero. Say, change to siege006. If you set it up so you have a max_bots at 2, then you'll be back up to 16 human players real fast.

WarpZone · July 2003

I suppose I can't deny that a server with 6 bots is more likely to be played on by me than a server with zero players, and that it's more fun, too. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> Dang.

Sandman · July 2003

You know WarpZone, maybe some of us are just sick and tired of playing against 12 years old's who's cheats folder is bigger then thier windows folder or those **** off 15 year old's who's colorful use of words makes it impossable to enjoy a game or even those newbie admins who's only goal is to try out some new commands (to them anyway) on you.

After playing HL mods for over 4 years now, I personally find playing against bots a much more enjoyable chalange. Why?
1) Bots don't cheat. At least, not in a meens that gives them the upper hand.
2) Bots don't care how good you play. (great to learn with)
3) Bots are always ready to play when you are.
4) Bots don't go AFK in the middle of a game to go watch a siene from a movie.
5) Bots don't try to hack your server if things don't go thier way.
6) Bots can be kicked at any time without the colorful remarks made in said server op's chat room, IM, forum or email.
7) Bots won't F4 if they start losing. They will fight to the bitter end.
8) Bots can be used to attract new players. No one want's to play in an empty server.

So what I have to say to you WarpZone, or for that matter, anyone else that shares your ideas, if you don't like the bots then you don't have to play with them as to there are plenty of other servers out there. My servers name has the word "bots" in it so new players are aware that bots are playing on my server before they even join it. And if they still don't see that, then maybe they need eye glasses.

bLuISh · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I am speaking to you, Mr. or Mrs. Public Server Runner. Please, I beg you, take the bots off of your server. I know, I know, you want your server to look busy so you can trick people into joining. And yes, I understand that when people started joining your server, pressing Tab to check the names of the other players, and then immediately leaving, you had no choice but to remove [I'm a bot] tags from their names. But surely you realize that the complete lack of infantry portals and the three marines stuck in the vents or in the pit under that one hive are a dead giveaway?

And what's with this begging for sg factories all over the place? As soon as a commander (or any other marine, for that matter) sees those messages, he figures out what's going on and switches servers.

If you want to trick people into thinking your server is cool, I suggest you accomplish this using methods other than bots. Maybe spell the name of your server simmilar to a popular one. Or start a thread in the NS forums and make up anecdotes about all the great games you're pretending you played on your server. But please, for the love of god, if you want to trick players into joining your server, PLEASE do so without bots. Not only will it make me and other players like me happy, and allow at least a slim possibility of teamwork, but you will also get more repeat business, and people won't be logging off as soon as they figure it out.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

um..WTH? i host wit bots.. with no intention of "tricking" people. Me and my friends just play vs bots for fun,and sometimes others join too. i dont kno why ur complainin..maybe u got owned by bots? besides, about 1/10 servers "I" join has bots. so WTH r u smoking about every1 having bots?

Bots Are A Menace To All Mankind

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