Release the manual before the game

CrystalSnake · July 2002

I think you should release the NS manual before you release the actual game.
This would hopefully reduce the number of players who jump into the game completely unprepared.

Surge · July 2002

Good idea, I think. Especially for me. I gotta learn where all the stuff is in Commander mode (like what categories everything's under), so I can be it in case no one else wants to be it on the server I'm at.

coil · July 2002

I kinda like it, but I'm not entirely sure I agree. It *would* be good to get a jumpstart on knowing how to play... however, I know the devs have surprises they don't want spoiled before release. With that in mind, I couldn't advocate releasing the manual any more than, say, a day or two before the mod itself. And then you wonder if it's worth it.

CMEast · July 2002

So if the manual and game come out together you will be forced to play the game without reading it?
At the moment the only people who are gonna be playing it are us, the more hardcore sort. This means that we will try and do things properly and so read the manual when it comes out.
If this was CS or TFC and came with halflife then things would be different as a newb could jump in the game with no clue at all but unless someone accidently clicks on a download link for this game, somehow doesnt realises and when its done accidently leans on the enter key without noticing thus installing it on default everything and then accidently double clicks the shortcut on the .... well, you get my point. cos you have to download it you cant join in by accident.

BTW, this means that anyone who hasnt read the manual is a llama and will be showered in rtfm's and kickbans

Freemantle · July 2002

You have to weigh this. What is more important?

That people playing NS know what they are doing and their first expeirience playing NS is a good one and they forever become part of the community?

OR

They jump in, and have no idea what they are doing. Any surprises hidden by the fact tht they have no clue of ANYTHING that is going on. They just wander around, shoot and die. They become disgusted with the mod and never play it again.

What do you think is better?

realityisdead · July 2002

I'm not going to take sides, as it would be really cool to leave some of the stuff as a surprise... but I think you've got a really good point, Freemantle.

humbaba · July 2002

I personally am for releasign the manual ahead of time. I don't know though. Surprises are nice. Like christmas . . .mmmmmm.

mark_nec · July 2002

i think that you should make a manual to lay down the basics, dont mention the surprises in it,that way people would have a general idea of what they were doing and still have even more to learn as they play the game.

TychoCelchuuu · July 2002

i say release it a day or two ahead, and give it ALOT of pr, have the entire world's population read it.

Hida_Tsuzua · July 2002

Well what you could do is to make the full manual. Then remove any "sercets" in it, then release the Lite version before hand. Then when NS v1 comes out, put up the 100% Full version.

Surge · July 2002

Hmmm... maybe they could leave out the spoilers? Like, just tell you the controls, how to play, game types, etc. They could leave out weapon and class descriptions or something...?

Gencide · July 2002

I'd like to see a manual be release a couple days before the intial download as well. I think the majority of us people on the board will want to refine our skills before jumping in like fools.

I know for one thing I am happy to see a tutorial map being made. That rocks.

virus · July 2002

I like your idea, Tsuzua.
But im not sure if the general HL-PLayer will read the manual a second time after he already read the "light" version, just to be sure that he wont miss any of the more detailed acpects of the game.
I think most players are kinda lazy so it may help if you mark the added parts in "full" manual, or atleast the things that are essential for gameplay & understanding.

And i could aswell imagine that there may be trouble with two different Manuals if other sites link them and do not update em correctly/in time. There should be something like a big sign on the "pre"manual to prevent confusion (ie. when/where to get new manual).

XyberBob · July 2002

You're post sounds like a statement, which there could possible be no other answer - "Release the manual before the game", I am sure that Flayra and his team know perfectly well what they are doing and will release the manual when they feel the time is right.

Towers · July 2002

I think who ever said about a Lite version to be released before the game is spot on.
I know someone said but people won#t read the full on version but then saying that people won't read it anyway when they have the game. If the manual doesn't come out til the game does I will hop right into the game and not read the manual.. i'm sure others will do this to.

DOOManiac · July 2002

If you are a person who has never played Warcraft or Starcraft, I highly recommend you try one of those (I recommend Warcraft III, best rts ever). That'll get you the basic idea on commanding, just keep in mind your peon's don't always blindly obey in ns ;)

Zub zub!

HBNayr · July 2002

Still, I like the idea of releasing the manual for download one or two days in advance. Generate hype, and whet our appetites for the main course. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

But that's just my vote. Until I otherthrow this petty democracy and instill myself as Supreme Dictator.

-Ryan!

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse #####. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
-- James D. Nicoll

Kobra · July 2002

If not, it will always give the community a bit of news to satisfy they high demands of new info to read while waiting for the game to hit the public. I understand however if the devs dont want to give away any suprises.

coil · July 2002

Kobra, like the sig... but in 3 days it's gonna be too big. ): New limit is 400x75 pixels.

XyberBob · July 2002

Poor Kobra <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Crim0nKing · July 2002

Who's gonna read text instead of playing the game...honestly...

coil · July 2002

I think the idea is that if the manual is released early, people will read it in anticipation of the game. It serves as early advertising (the team can hype the manual release, followed by the game a day or two later) and also results in more people who have at least a vague idea of what they're doing before they jump in on release day.

CMEast · July 2002

Yeah, I think you guys are right actually... and why? Because I stupidly presumed people would do the sensible thing and actually read a damn manual for once.
C'mon this is a team based game and if you dont know how to play you will adversely affect your team. Are you a team player? Then RTFM!
Also, this is an RTS with completely new elements in no other game and if you wanna be good at an RTS and know all there is to know you have to research... i.e. RTFM!!
And of course, this is an adrenaline fueled DM as well and even the tiniest advantage over your opponent will lead to your glory and their ignominius defeat at your hands... and the easiest way to get an advantage is to know what your doing... so RTFM!!!

For gods sake, its not that difficult and could make the difference between you being branded a llama and a hero from the start of the game.
These people have put hundreds of hours worth of their time in, theyve done it without pay, without any expectation of gratitude or adulation. They are getting nothing except job satisfaction from this and the least you can do is read the manual.

In fact there have been numerous topics on the subjects of manuals, tutorials etc and they have always ended with 'This is a complicated game so anything that can be done to make it easier should be done'.
Presumably when you all agreed that something should be done you didnt mean by you. As you dont want to read the manual (in fact, why even bother with a tutorial or newbie servers, just jump straight in) maybe the developers should delay it a bit longer till they can work out how to download the info directly into your brain matrix-stylee... or maybe they should make it so every single thing is done with space and all you have to do is push it at the right time!

Im sorry but this really winds me up and people bragging <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
If the manual doesn't come out til the game does I will hop right into the game and not read the manual
</td></tr></table>
doesnt help. Why should the developers ruin the surprises theyve planned for ages now? They want peoples jaws to drop in surprise as well as awe, they want people to see stuff they never expected or guessed theyd see. They dont want people to join and say 'I knew about all this already'. Let them have some fun with us.
Also should we presume that the average NS player wont read the manual. If its complex then they should, if they dont then they are just thick, if they are thick then they are llamas and shouldnt play the game. Why does everything always have to boil down to the lowest common denominator.
Even CS, a rather simple game that you _can_ just jump into still has loads to read about. I guarentee you that the best players have read articles, posted on forums and thoroughly researched everything they could think of to improve their game.
Here your being handed the whole lot on a plate and your not happy.

Grrrr <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

Unknown · July 2002

I'm just going to print the manual and read it as I am playing on a LAN game with my 200x NEWB father. (Lets put it this way. It took him well over an hour to kill an enemy 10 times. Also the enemy NEVER shot at him.)

EDIT: Thats only if the manual does not come out b4 the MOD does.

DOOManiac · July 2002

hehe. i remember one time i let my dad try to play Urban Terror.. after 5 minutes he figured out how to shoot, and he ended up TK'ing his entire team right after spawn w/ all his grenades, and got kicked from the server. hah.

the_stalker · July 2002

they did that with dod so it sounds good to me, dang the para maps with being the only ones that have the great fg42 <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

Sono · July 2002

I'm for releasing the manual one or two days before.
I for myself thought about that. I want to know what to do. So I read the manual, but if I have the game and the manual, I have a hard time reading it as I could also play at that time.
Be sure to put the manual on the hp, so I can read it while downloading.

Kadreal · July 2002

Let's face it, how many of you actually read the manual BEFORE playing a game you just bought? and no i'm not talking about during instalation, i'm talking the whole thing. Not many.

Personaly i don't read jack, i just hop in and play, however if the manual was out before the game was, Duh we'll read it, we're crazed for information, but we're even more crazed to play the game. I Vote for a lite version just to brush us up on basics.

CollateralDamage · July 2002

That's a great idea!

Whether I read a manual actually depends on whether I could play the game instead. For example, when I buy a game during a vacation where I have no access to a computer I read the manual instead. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

So releasing it early would mean impatient guys like me get a chance to read it before playing and behave less newbish in the first game.

As far as surprises go... I know I'm in the minority there, but I don't like to be surprised as far as gameplay goes. Graphical gimmicks, ok, but I want to *know* how the game I'm playing works, I want to be prepared. Surprises get in the way of that.

Hey, why not even put the manual online while it is being written? Like these strange online novels. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Surge · July 2002

I always read the manual. Reading is great, guys. They're like books... you know... those... things you....... read....?

CMEast · July 2002

Lite Manual - Shoot the nme, do what the commander says (unless your an alien).
C'mon, everyone on here knows whatll be in the lite version because weve been following the game. We already have a good idea of what we are supposed to do, all we need now is specifics which wont be in a lite manual.

If I told you about this mod youd never heard of but I thought was really cool would you really say "oo, a light manual... Ill definitely read that even though the game isnt out yet!!!"
No, youd get a vague idea of the game (probably about the same level of detail as the phl review or whats on ns.org's main few pages) then download it. You wouldnt read a manual in case it was rubbish because 'reading is just so hard' that you musnt ever read anything you dont need too.

Youve spent hours on these forums, whats 30mins reading a manual then?

Oh, and to answer all your 'as if anyone actually reads manuals' I read the Baldurs Gate 2 manual cover to cover twice before I played it. I dont have a single game where I dont at least read the readme... Ive even read the manual to MS Minesweeper... did you know if you push l+r click together you can uncover more than one square at a time. No, probably not which is why Id kick you ##### at it. Now I know that isnt something to brag about but it works the same in all games. Someone who takes that little bit longer to read the manual always does better.

My mate bought secret of mana for the snes, he got so far and then got stuck so lent it to me, turns out the reason why he was stuck is because he didnt know half of the things you could do in the game... and why? cos he didnt read the manual and thats the first thing I did. Because i read it he found out about the 3 player mode and we completed the game together which was great fun... morale to this story? RTFM

<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'> more grrrs <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

Release the manual before the game

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