Skulk Vs. Lmg Marine
TickTock
Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 608Members
Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 608Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The ambassadors of NS</div> In the beta forums, there seems to be a belief that the skulk is weaker than the marines, but the aliens are winning more games, so perhaps the skulk should be left alone. I caution against that line of thinking.
The skulk gets vastly more play time than any of the other alien evolutions. That's a simple fact, just as the LMG marine gets vastly more play time than any of the other equipped marines. Because players start as these, and they must play as these atleast for awhile, it feels more imperative that these 2 should be balanced than any other classes. New players coming into the game should be able to see and play as the skulk or LMG and feel like they make an impact, if only minor. I don't want new people to try the skulk in NS, see that it really can't cope well with marines at all, and get **** at NS just to end up leaving.
I think that because LMG and skulk represent the core gameplay for all players, that it might be more important to balance those than anything else in the entire game.
The skulk gets vastly more play time than any of the other alien evolutions. That's a simple fact, just as the LMG marine gets vastly more play time than any of the other equipped marines. Because players start as these, and they must play as these atleast for awhile, it feels more imperative that these 2 should be balanced than any other classes. New players coming into the game should be able to see and play as the skulk or LMG and feel like they make an impact, if only minor. I don't want new people to try the skulk in NS, see that it really can't cope well with marines at all, and get **** at NS just to end up leaving.
I think that because LMG and skulk represent the core gameplay for all players, that it might be more important to balance those than anything else in the entire game.
Comments
The skulk gets vastly more play time than any of the other alien evolutions. That's a simple fact, just as the LMG marine gets vastly more play time than any of the other equipped marines. Because players start as these, and they must play as these atleast for awhile, it feels more imperative that these 2 should be balanced than any other classes. New players coming into the game should be able to see and play as the skulk or LMG and feel like they make an impact, if only minor. I don't want new people to try the skulk in NS, see that it really can't cope well with marines at all, and get **** at NS just to end up leaving.
I think that because LMG and skulk represent the core gameplay for all players, that it might be more important to balance those than anything else in the entire game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
with the new costs for alien evolutions the skulk might actually see *less* playtime. I believe you can lerk up almost instantly at the beginning of a game. However, I don't keep up with the new beta threads so I might be wrong there.
However, I really see where you're coming from about the marines owning skulks could be bad for newbies. I don't really know how to solve that problem, as it exists in 1.04 as well. Newbie skulks=cannon fodder.
You see more play at higher life forms in 1.1 than you do in 1.04. I wouldn't go so far as saying that you get more with other life forms than you do with the skulk.
The skulk gets vastly more play time than any of the other alien evolutions. That's a simple fact, just as the LMG marine gets vastly more play time than any of the other equipped marines. Because players start as these, and they must play as these atleast for awhile, it feels more imperative that these 2 should be balanced than any other classes. New players coming into the game should be able to see and play as the skulk or LMG and feel like they make an impact, if only minor. I don't want new people to try the skulk in NS, see that it really can't cope well with marines at all, and get **** at NS just to end up leaving.
I think that because LMG and skulk represent the core gameplay for all players, that it might be more important to balance those than anything else in the entire game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with the new costs for alien evolutions the skulk might actually see *less* playtime. I believe you can lerk up almost instantly at the beginning of a game. However, I don't keep up with the new beta threads so I might be wrong there.
However, I really see where you're coming from about the marines owning skulks could be bad for newbies. I don't really know how to solve that problem, as it exists in 1.04 as well. Newbie skulks=cannon fodder. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough*remove push effect for skulks*cough*
Well, considering that it takes longer for marines to get hmgs/hvy armour and that the commander has to give it to them, marines SHOULD be slightly more powerful than skulks imho. Think about it, once aliens have enougth res to go fade, for example, then the marines will NEED to be that bit more powerful than skulks.
Just my opinion.
*puts on flame retardent clothing*
I won't speculate on the balance of strats or the time involved in acquiring certain tech either, since I don't know, but that is also not my point. Basically my point is that the vanilla skulk and vanilla LMG marine serve as NS' introduction to new players. If those aren't balanced, it casts an unfavorable light on the rest of the game for those just learning.
I don't see how people get angry at the skulk bite push because usually if you are facing skilled marines they will jump like crazy looking for you to shoot. well, that should mean you keep on the move as well.... just my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulk vs Marine all depends on where you are. Long hallway? forget about it skulky, good chance the marine will win. Ambush? most likely the skulk will win. I got one word though, Celerity <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you are talking about 1.04 where every1 sticks to their DMS, if you have celerity you already have leap. Imo adren is quite fun for skulks gives you 4 leaps instead of 2 and a half
Now I know that the teams are different, but I think balancing things like this would be the easiest way. Skulk kills rambo marine because he can ambush easily. Group of marines wins group of Skulks because it's harder to ambush then and marines have range-advantage.
Now I know that the teams are different, but I think balancing things like this would be the easiest way. Skulk kills rambo marine because he can ambush easily. Group of marines wins group of Skulks because it's harder to ambush then and marines have range-advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the goal but IMHO it falls short of this.
o At range: stock marine > stock skulk - this is currently true
o In Melee range: stock skulk > stock marine - this is currently false without : Unless the marine is jumping at the time of the bite.
Once the marine is bitten in mid air he flys accross the screen nullifying any melee advantage the skulk has. To use the current catch phase, "this is counter intuitive". Why should a skulks main weapon leave him at a disadvantage in a situation where he should have the advantage? The whole skulk game is about getting close enough, without dying, to bite the marines. The bite-push, in it's present form, totally works against the skulk play model. I think a lot of people don't quite understand the problem.
Honestly, I believe that non-carapace skulks and non-upgraded marines are perfectly on par with each other. When the aliens get carapace, though, and the marines don't have weapon upgrades, the balance shifts away and the aliens are superior. The same goes with marines (try using no-carapace in late-game as a skulk and you'll see what level 3 ammunition upgrades can do <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
In the end, the entire balance issue comes down to the speed of the respective builder/leader on each team. If the aliens get their acts together and lay three DC's down in the first few minutes, they will enjoy a long period of superiority over the marines. If the marine comm is fast, however, the weapon upgrades allow the aliens to pretty much fall down the 'sliding curve' deal tht is so oft-referred to.
With the current skulk-bite, this tenuous balance is upheld. However, Isuspect that when 1.1 hits, the fixed skulk bite will force balance changes to reduce the bitegun damage, and marines will have to keep more on their toes to avoid being eaten before they can say "f4!" I think when we see 1.1, this discussion will finally have an answer:
Neither.
lieve that in that case, a good skulker will be far superior to a mediocre marine, and likewise. The repair of the bitegun will bring more of a skill element and less of a luck element to the game for good. The game once again will be returned to individual player skill and ability.
Bad news for us noobs...
As for right now, however, marines simply pwn everything. Damn you, 1.04! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->