<!--QuoteBegin--Duck_King+May 26 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duck_King @ May 26 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Close the thread, Razmataz is the winner. Couldn't have said it better myself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> indeed, the thread should have been locked after his response.
Pfft, I didn't say that. It makes it easier but by no means can you bunnyhop instantly with it. Even with an aid like that, it still takes quite a bit of practice to get down the basics, and even more to master.
Oh and trying to get in the last jab and getting the thread closed is real cool.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+May 25 2003, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ May 25 2003, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont understand why people thinking removing those options from the game will make people think more. IMO it makes people think LESS and makes the game more relaxed.
Now that you wont be able to manuver when you jump, and the fact that you wont be able to fly with a jetpack like you can now, is going to make the marine game even more of "shock the monkey" than it is right now. When will people learn....when you slow down the players and their movements, you slow down your speed of mind, and thought process as well. Less concentration is needed because you dont need to concentrate on where you are going next....rather, you can relax and remember that when you fall, you are a free meal....
Example...what class is harder to play? HWguy, or medic? The medic...why? Because of the manuvers that he can do...bhopping, conc jumping, nade jumping etc.
Example 2....what version of CS was harder to play? Current, or pre-bhop....Pre-bhop...why? Because of the manuvers that you were able to do. Players could effectivly move more quickly around the map making the game more interesting and actually making you think quickly and be on your toes. Now without bhopping, the game has come to people spamming flash nades at their spawns and spraying pr0n everywhere.
So what is going to be more fun? V1.04, or V1.1? V1.04...why? Because nothing compares to having an hmg and 4 skulks trying to kill you all while avoiding firing O chambers and webbing. Now its just gonna be.......Up.....Down.....game over man! No thought process, no speed of mind, no quick reaction time neccessary, no need to think on your toes...just let the physics system kill you.
I think everyone needs to remember where the roots of half-life are...fun, first person, quick paced action fighting. Not "waa, this doesnt fit the environment" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> theres a difference between reflexive and tactical thought, before it was jump ... oh crap a skulk how can i dodge it, now it is how can i jump so that i wont have to worry about a skulk but still be combat-effective, which needs more thought? which just needs reflexes?
I'm new, but I think that helps my judgment in this:
When I am a marine, and I have a JP and even LMG... I have at least a 3-1 kill/death ration usually. When I am a skulk, and they have a JP... I'm just frustrated and soon, dead.
That's not to say ultimately play balance isn't their (in 1.04), but why should one team require skill to stop a tactic that any dork can do?
I already tend to play on the alien team more because I enjoy being all creepy and running on walls and stuff.... But whenever I play marines, my favorite part of the game is the moment the commander announces jetpacks are done researching ('cause I get to hovar without flaping!). If that's being nerfed and it doesn't have the control it currently does (heck, I'm already terrible at controling my jp around corners and stuff), I suppose I'll play alien exclusively now. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--p4l+Jun 19 2003, 04:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (p4l @ Jun 19 2003, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> why should one team require skill to stop a tactic that any dork can do? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> JPing is not something that doesn't require skill. You can't simply join the game for the first time ever, grab a JP and instantly get a 3/1 kill ratio. It takes time to master the JP and a degree if skill IS required.
I'm not saying that JPers are easy to kill as a skulk, but if the person using the jetpack has nfi how to use it properly, he's dead.
Well, while I'm certain my entry-level JP'ing isn't near top notch, it *is* enough to net me that 3-1 kill to death ration. I've had this game for 4 days now, and ever since I tried marines the 2nd day, the JP was my dearest friend. It kept me alive vs. superior players, players who DOMINATED me when I didn't have one.
While JP'ing well I'm sure does require skill, I picked one up my 2nd day and was picking off skulks and the occasional fade once I got HMG. I mean, if I can do that so easily there is a problem with it...
What I'm trying to say is that that unbelievably cheap JP gave this noob an advantage in kills over more skilled alien players. If two people of the same skill level, one a carapace 2-hive skulk, the other a JP/LMG marine meet up... my money is simply on the JP'er, because all my experience (albeit brief, I do mean *ALL*) points at it. If on my 2nd day I could grab that jetpack and immediately be on equal, if not better footing than players who had been playing for some time... and when they aren't on a technologically inferior level (IE, one hive and mineral deprived or something), there must be at least an entry-level balance issue. Like I said before, maybe once two teams of equal, and great, skill level meet things are balanced, but from a less pro (and more common) perspective, that JP is just devious.
The reason I like the jp so much is because I can get out of a dangerous situation quickly. I see a lot of games where the commander is handing out HA to everyone and I'm always the one staying far away from the HA asking if JP's have been researched. Some people like the large amount of damage an HA can take, but I'd rather be able to quickly maneuver my way out of an alien onslaught than be unable to retreat fast when needed with HA. If I'm busy building a structure and I hear aliens coming to kill me, it's so much easier to tap my jump key and get out of a skulk's biting range quickly than it is to stop what I'm doing and look around for the alien that's coming to get me and have no escape. Not only that, but when faced with a hallway or door blocked with OT's, a HA has no choice but to sit there wasting ammo to destroy it and let the whole alien team know you're coming - with a JP you just fly over the thing and sneak off to wherever your destination is while taking little damage from the OT's.
Comments
Err, what exactly is the point you're talking about?
indeed, the thread should have been locked after his response.
PS: Mod, please weld/Nuke this thread.
Oh and trying to get in the last jab and getting the thread closed is real cool.
Now that you wont be able to manuver when you jump, and the fact that you wont be able to fly with a jetpack like you can now, is going to make the marine game even more of "shock the monkey" than it is right now. When will people learn....when you slow down the players and their movements, you slow down your speed of mind, and thought process as well. Less concentration is needed because you dont need to concentrate on where you are going next....rather, you can relax and remember that when you fall, you are a free meal....
Example...what class is harder to play? HWguy, or medic? The medic...why? Because of the manuvers that he can do...bhopping, conc jumping, nade jumping etc.
Example 2....what version of CS was harder to play? Current, or pre-bhop....Pre-bhop...why? Because of the manuvers that you were able to do. Players could effectivly move more quickly around the map making the game more interesting and actually making you think quickly and be on your toes. Now without bhopping, the game has come to people spamming flash nades at their spawns and spraying pr0n everywhere.
So what is going to be more fun? V1.04, or V1.1? V1.04...why? Because nothing compares to having an hmg and 4 skulks trying to kill you all while avoiding firing O chambers and webbing. Now its just gonna be.......Up.....Down.....game over man! No thought process, no speed of mind, no quick reaction time neccessary, no need to think on your toes...just let the physics system kill you.
I think everyone needs to remember where the roots of half-life are...fun, first person, quick paced action fighting. Not "waa, this doesnt fit the environment" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
theres a difference between reflexive and tactical thought, before it was jump ... oh crap a skulk how can i dodge it, now it is how can i jump so that i wont have to worry about a skulk but still be combat-effective, which needs more thought? which just needs reflexes?
When I am a marine, and I have a JP and even LMG... I have at least a 3-1 kill/death ration usually.
When I am a skulk, and they have a JP... I'm just frustrated and soon, dead.
That's not to say ultimately play balance isn't their (in 1.04), but why should one team require skill to stop a tactic that any dork can do?
JPing is not something that doesn't require skill. You can't simply join the game for the first time ever, grab a JP and instantly get a 3/1 kill ratio. It takes time to master the JP and a degree if skill IS required.
I'm not saying that JPers are easy to kill as a skulk, but if the person using the jetpack has nfi how to use it properly, he's dead.
While JP'ing well I'm sure does require skill, I picked one up my 2nd day and was picking off skulks and the occasional fade once I got HMG. I mean, if I can do that so easily there is a problem with it...
What I'm trying to say is that that unbelievably cheap JP gave this noob an advantage in kills over more skilled alien players. If two people of the same skill level, one a carapace 2-hive skulk, the other a JP/LMG marine meet up... my money is simply on the JP'er, because all my experience (albeit brief, I do mean *ALL*) points at it. If on my 2nd day I could grab that jetpack and immediately be on equal, if not better footing than players who had been playing for some time... and when they aren't on a technologically inferior level (IE, one hive and mineral deprived or something), there must be at least an entry-level balance issue. Like I said before, maybe once two teams of equal, and great, skill level meet things are balanced, but from a less pro (and more common) perspective, that JP is just devious.