Veterans

Arawn · June 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">What a crock...</div>I would like to start off by saying that I am not in a clan, have only been in a clan once, and will never be in a clan again. Ok, I can understand Flayra's reasoning with giving 1.1 to the veterans to test, the NS community is just one big blob of people, and the only group branching off from this larger community, that is small enough for the job, are the clans. Fine, I can deal with that, but what the hell is going on with this "veterans" group. The way I understand it, the only reason they're where they're at is because they felt like joining a clan, which for the most part is like being in a gang, only for wusses. I'm not supporting urban street gangs or anything, but if you're going to bunch up and start your little "clique" then do it for real, at least then I'll have the satisfaction of knowing you'll be arrested eventually. Contrary to popular belief, just because you are in a high ranking clan, or even in a clan at all, does not mean you're suddenly better than everyone. I'm not saying I'm the best or even that I'm endowed with any kind of special skill in playing, but I know public players that would probably be capable of owning a majority of clanners, the majority of NS players are public, REMEMBER THAT. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sensing from the way Flayra talks about clanners that he thinks they are the best players, and pretty much the only ones that matter, well pardon the hell out of me for not making a career out of playing a **** game. Which happens to be really lame by the way...living your life for a game like Counterstrike (and maybe NS in the future??!) Also, by definition, a veteran is not a skilled player, it is someone who has alot of experience in doing something, in which case I'M a veteran, because I've played since NS was public. Did it ever occur to people that maybe the majority of NS is public, not clan? In which case couldn't you be considerate enough to base it around public play, instead of a minority of people who have some big personal stake in the game so they do anything and everything possible to exploit every aspect of the game to win? Sorry, but even though I would like them to be, the average public NS players usually aren't intelligent enough to pull off some of these strategies, and it's hard to make them work together, but the way I see it, it's one extreme or the other..play with people who just really don't care and/or try, or people who base a good chunk of their life on a game. I'll take public thank you. You really aren't that great. And knowing that a stupid response trying to prove me wrong will inevitably surface, save it. Most of you do think you're better than the other people, or at least that the matches you have are more refined and, well, you can get some good games off of a public server too. When I first started playing, I felt like I was connected with the people making the game, but now they've slowly drifted away and I end up getting information from clanners blabbing in various places about how they were having a one-on-one-uber-personal-almost-phone-sex-like conversation with Flayra, and that they have unearthed some juicy secret about NS or anything that has anything to do with NS. I'm not jumping through hoops to stay in the devteam's inner circle, that's just sad. Oh, man, seriously, no matter how right you think you are, unless you've got some proof to actually PROVE (yes, prove, key word) me wrong, DO NOT POST. I know alot of people don't want to hear this, and in most peoples minds might be grounds for removal, but this message IS serious and needs a response, so chill.

TickTock · June 2003

Wow, that's some really insightful Kharaa strategy. I'm sure a lot of alien players can benefit from your advice...

Question: Why do we have to prove you wrong when you haven't proved yourself right?

Wolv · June 2003

Could you please add some paragraphs to that big blob of text? Couldn't bring myself to read more then a few lines.

Brave_Ulysses · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wolv @ Jun 13 2003, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Could you please add some paragraphs to that big blob of text? Couldn't bring myself to read more then a few lines.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Me too. My eyes glazed over. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

DarkFrost · June 2003

Ok i didnt read the whole thing, as even now i can still see the lines on my white wall when i look at it.

BUT Clan play and Public play are completely different. WE grace the public with our presence on the servers, we play on locked servers for a reason. Also, who really cares if some public guy is better on a public set server, come play us on tourney mode and watch as he (more likely than not) mows his buddies down with his HMG.

Also playing in a clan means you get high skilled games EVERY game you play, there is no team stacking (excepting when there is one clan better), and TBH when we play on public servers we dont do the usual get JP HMG in 4 and a half minutes, if we do play on publics we play to have a change of pace, you think you have seen a rush?

The vets should be respected as they are a select few who for whatever reason Flayra (or someone on the team anyway) has chosen to help test the new releases of the mod. That is a good thing imo. and you are right, veteran doesnt say "most skilled" it means they have the know how to work out exploits and generally annoy hell out of flayra and his attempts to get the game exploit free <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> (they may not be THE most skilled, but will probably be a damn site more skilled than any pubber.

You are out of line with what you have posted here today, everyones allowed their opinion, but u look like u just picked a random forum to "****"(<--word that means female dog, strange one to block but nvrm :o) in.

So yes you are wrong about most of your comments. Even down to your blatant assumption that clan server setup is the same as public server setup.

I would also like to ask:
Were you drunk when you wrote this, or are you always this charming?

/sarcasm off

Skillzilla1 · June 2003

Calling clan play worthless... you musta been in a really **** clan.

Kazyras · June 2003

Just another loquacious guy who has never, ever played beyond the semi-newbie level but pretends to know what he's talking about anyway.

Nothing to see here people, ignore and move on.

Arcticwind · June 2003

hmmmm... i see.... nothing?
=X

Stoneburg · June 2003

The forum equivalent of a Babbler-rush.

Amorphous · June 2003

Wow, nice ramble! To bad no one actually bothered to read it past the fourth line!

TotalNooB · June 2003

You got to the fourth line? wow.

THis post has got me thinking. Maybe I should join a clan. Or make one. We could be called n00b-patrol and beat our enemies into submission by running at them down long corridors and asking what a hive is.

ThinG · June 2003

*sidenote: paragraphs actually ARE your friend
*no I didn't read it all

IMHO:

Well, I'm not going against Flayra's almighty judgement, but I do think that there should be other ppl than only the so called "top" players.
I mean, a little bit more diversity in the playtesting scene would be better imo

But I'm not to complain, it's a helluva job, and when you are done playtesting you have to play 1.04 like the rest of us sorry **** <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

So, "top" players good luck with playtesting, the rest of the world will thankfully benefit from your work.

Cheers

[/edit]

At least get this thread PHASED <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

sTrYkEr · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ok, I can understand Flayra's reasoning with giving 1.1 to the veterans to test, the NS community is just one big blob of people, and the only group branching off from this larger community, that is small enough for the job, are the clans. Fine, I can deal with that, but what the hell is going on with this "veterans" group. The way I understand it, the only reason they're where they're at is because they felt like joining a clan, which for the most part is like being in a gang, only for wusses. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Way i understand it is we were choosen to test out the balance and competitive aspects of 1.1 in MATCH / SCRIM atmosphere so the balance and known abuses in 1.1 can be adressed. To make NS the best competitive game in existence is the goal of the "veterans program". That would explain why as clans we were choosen versus pickin individual so called "veterans".
As for the clans that were choosen for the veterans program they all are known "top10" clans in the usa and this weekend will expand to include european clans.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sensing from the way Flayra talks about clanners that he thinks they are the best players, and pretty much the only ones that matter, well pardon the hell out of me for not making a career out of playing a **** game. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Flayras already made it clear to everyone in the program that were not above or better than anyone in the ns community we are subject to removal on a dime and some enitre clans have been removed. Your accusations are false and uncalled for.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'M a veteran, because I've played since NS was public. Did it ever occur to people that maybe the majority of NS is public, not clan? In which case couldn't you be considerate enough to base it around public play, instead of a minority of people who have some big personal stake in the game so they do anything and everything possible to exploit every aspect of the game to win? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Like i said the "veteran program is open to clans not "veteran" individuals to balance the competitive aspect of 1.1. By bringing balance to 1.1 it will improve pub play dramaticly and make it more enjoyable experiece for all. If there was a "veterans program" earlier there probly wouldnt be 3 minute jetpack rushes followed by hmgs at the 5 minute mark and alien spawn lockdowns as in 1.04.

but hey im just a lowly vet in a group of 100s i could be wrong but this will pay off for the entire community in the long run. <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

ps this is the wrong section for this debate <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Insane · June 2003

What you need to remember, is that Flayra wants an equally good public and clan game. The the game as it stands now is fairly exploitable, with such things as jetpacks. This is especially evident in clan games, which is why Flay feels he needs a group of people like the veterans to help him balance it. That's why he chose the most skilled clans rather than players.

That doesn't mean that the public game is being neglected, however. The Playtester group is largely taking care of that and the veterans are always able to help out as well, they don't always have to be playing in a match/scrim environment.

As for people thinking they are "above" the others because they are veterans, that's more of an issue of individuals rather than the whole group, which is largely a bunch of quality guys.

Why was this posted in Kharra Strategy, by the way?

Agkelos · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Arawn @ Jun 13 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I would like to start off by saying that I am not in a clan, have only been in a clan once, and will never be in a clan again. Ok, I can understand Flayra's reasoning with giving 1.1 to the veterans to test, the NS community is just one big blob of people, and the only group branching off from this larger community, that is small enough for the job, are the clans. Fine, I can deal with that, but what the hell is going on with this "veterans" group. The way I understand it, the only reason they're where they're at is because they felt like joining a clan, which for the most part is like being in a gang, only for wusses. I'm not supporting urban street gangs or anything, but if you're going to bunch up and start your little "clique" then do it for real, at least then I'll have the satisfaction of knowing you'll be arrested eventually. Contrary to popular belief, just because you are in a high ranking clan, or even in a clan at all, does not mean you're suddenly better than everyone. I'm not saying I'm the best or even that I'm endowed with any kind of special skill in playing, but I know public players that would probably be capable of owning a majority of clanners, the majority of NS players are public, REMEMBER THAT. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sensing from the way Flayra talks about clanners that he thinks they are the best players, and pretty much the only ones that matter, well pardon the hell out of me for not making a career out of playing a **** game. Which happens to be really lame by the way...living your life for a game like Counterstrike (and maybe NS in the future??!) Also, by definition, a veteran is not a skilled player, it is someone who has alot of experience in doing something, in which case I'M a veteran, because I've played since NS was public. Did it ever occur to people that maybe the majority of NS is public, not clan? In which case couldn't you be considerate enough to base it around public play, instead of a minority of people who have some big personal stake in the game so they do anything and everything possible to exploit every aspect of the game to win? Sorry, but even though I would like them to be, the average public NS players usually aren't intelligent enough to pull off some of these strategies, and it's hard to make them work together, but the way I see it, it's one extreme or the other..play with people who just really don't care and/or try, or people who base a good chunk of their life on a game. I'll take public thank you. You really aren't that great. And knowing that a stupid response trying to prove me wrong will inevitably surface, save it. Most of you do think you're better than the other people, or at least that the matches you have are more refined and, well, you can get some good games off of a public server too. When I first started playing, I felt like I was connected with the people making the game, but now they've slowly drifted away and I end up getting information from clanners blabbing in various places about how they were having a one-on-one-uber-personal-almost-phone-sex-like conversation with Flayra, and that they have unearthed some juicy secret about NS or anything that has anything to do with NS. I'm not jumping through hoops to stay in the devteam's inner circle, that's just sad. Oh, man, seriously, no matter how right you think you are, unless you've got some proof to actually PROVE (yes, prove, key word) me wrong, DO NOT POST. I know alot of people don't want to hear this, and in most peoples minds might be grounds for removal, but this message IS serious and needs a response, so chill.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Take a chill pill, bud. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Marik_Steele · June 2003

This thread is being locked by a moderator and playtester (who, I might add, has <i>never</i> been in an NS "clan" and therefore can be said to test on a lower-competition level) because:
1. Wrong forum.
2. Been discussed. Use the search function.
3. Been answered. And done so by multiple people fairly high-up in what could be called the "chain of command" on the team.

Veterans

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