Favoritism Killed Ns For Me
arjungita
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10928Members
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10928Members
Maybe there has been 5000 topics with this same subject, but I wanted to put my own 2 cents in. Favoritism in 1.1 testing killed my desire to play NS.
Why....now that's a good question.
I suppose its because I enjoyed league and competitive play so much, and I don't see any question that these months of beta testing 1.1 by the "elite" few will basically make the highest echelons of competitive play unattainable.
It's similar to a counterstrike clan trying to get into competitive play now, after all the best groups and players know the winning map strategies like the back of their hand, there's simply no hope.
The elitest attitude towards testing is such a complete slap in the face for many players, there's no doubt it has not only killed the popularity of NS, but also created a rift between the makers and the community. I've never heard of a beta test done in such a selective manner with total disregard to the future of its competitive scene, its like mod suicide in my opinion.
I'm sure 1.1 will come out and be a fantastic game, in addition being free will be something no one can complain about if they want to have a good time. But for me, and I'm sure a lot of others, the prolonged special treatment and exclusivity of learning the strategies and tactics coming in 1.1 is just ridiculous.
Would it be different if I were in the beta? Probably not. The only reason being that I am not a irc-fanatic like almost all of the top ranking clan members. I don't like to idle in chat, I don't like to chit-chat about nonsense, and I certainly don't care for the culture behind IRC, which is now the culture inherent in the 1.1 testing group.
Anyway, gg all, 1.04 RIP.
Why....now that's a good question.
I suppose its because I enjoyed league and competitive play so much, and I don't see any question that these months of beta testing 1.1 by the "elite" few will basically make the highest echelons of competitive play unattainable.
It's similar to a counterstrike clan trying to get into competitive play now, after all the best groups and players know the winning map strategies like the back of their hand, there's simply no hope.
The elitest attitude towards testing is such a complete slap in the face for many players, there's no doubt it has not only killed the popularity of NS, but also created a rift between the makers and the community. I've never heard of a beta test done in such a selective manner with total disregard to the future of its competitive scene, its like mod suicide in my opinion.
I'm sure 1.1 will come out and be a fantastic game, in addition being free will be something no one can complain about if they want to have a good time. But for me, and I'm sure a lot of others, the prolonged special treatment and exclusivity of learning the strategies and tactics coming in 1.1 is just ridiculous.
Would it be different if I were in the beta? Probably not. The only reason being that I am not a irc-fanatic like almost all of the top ranking clan members. I don't like to idle in chat, I don't like to chit-chat about nonsense, and I certainly don't care for the culture behind IRC, which is now the culture inherent in the 1.1 testing group.
Anyway, gg all, 1.04 RIP.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
In addition, how can you know that the veteran members are part of the IRC community if you yourself are not a part of it?
Oh, and good work on insulting half the NS community, including me, who also just happens to read the forums, that will make them much more eager to listen to your ideas.
Remember that over the course of 1.1's development many changes have been made. For example, just because the vets & PTs can produce an excellent gorge suckling rush won't make a scrap of difference - gorge suckling has been removed.
The changes have come too thick and fast for any of the testers to have gained an unassailable lead in 'game-wisdom'. At least give 1.1 a shot when released.
V1.1 isn't COMPLETE. Those who are playing it.. are actually TESTING it, for balance issues and bugs. It has changed a great many times since it began- so they don't really have beat-all map strategies worked out.
Yes, they will have knowledge and experience of it first, before the rest of us. But certainly nothing that will ruin your gaming experience with the million people that play it. Pretty much every game has a beta test stage where not EVERYONE is permitted to play. But that hasn't seemed to ruin anything before, why now?
As far as IRC is concerned. What's wrong with the "culture" behind it? It's just a big window where multiple people can get together to talk. Having an active role in the community is a good reason to be picked for playtesting. Idling in IRC doesn't make you a candidate, as you seem to suggest.
I just don't see anything you said to have relevance, I'm sorry you feel you're being cheated by having them release a stable and balanced v1.1.
And I really don't care what any of you say, I feel jilted by how the testers were picked and continue to be picked.
Too bad. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
1.1 will be good but it needs to be tested
give it time!
#naturalselection
#findnsscrim
#cri
#pandas
#redemption
#sYn
#clan-cX
#hamburg
(and others.. just ask around)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Too bad. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those weren't very veteran like. Seeing as how you're supposed to be the "veteran" in these situations, why exactly do you feel the need to keep this argument going? If he makes you angry so much, ignore it, instead of more cheap shots and child like bickering that could be interpreted by even more "elitism" by someone who already has that opinion.
Whats the solution?
Theres the problem. Betatesters getting more time to play 1.1, thus gaining advantage over those not betatesting. In NS the situation is so different. There must be big betatest groups for other mods as well, they do not cause grief as they are closed, pretty much hidden. So at least I believe, let me know if I'm wrong. NS betatest is completely open though, making all decisions created by betatest and its consequences highly visible.
NS wouldnt need such prolonged, throughout betatesting if it wasnt going through huge changes as well. How else could these changes be tested?
Someone suggested the whole community acts as the betatest team. Let all test 1.1. It just cant work, some test versions are surely badly unbalanced, maybe even buggy, at worst case in beginning maybe even used temp graphs or sounds or something? What when a NEW to NS player begins playing at that point. NS is just a 'work in progress' incomplete mod that aint worth much. So it would seem anyway. Also, with such a huge betatest team as the whole community, there is hard time filtering worthwhile suggestions from total.. if I may say.. crap. With carefully picked betatest teams you can be sure your betatesters do their best to test game balance issues, for example. If its just random people posting random opinions it wont make much sense.
So I dont really see another option than to have the most experienced NS players balance the newest version. It does cause a loop, true. Then again, think about the betatesters. All the tactics they spend their time figuring out, all those surprise betatest victories mean nothing. When we get 1.1 in our hands and start playing we all know pretty much the viable marine and alien strategies, wheather few or many. Betatesters can perform them better at beginning, I'm sure, but after a month or two it evens out to barely even affect it.
Its pretty late, I hope my trail of thought isnt too hard to follow.
-Tark, not a betatester
Are you saying that it's not fair that the testers were picked based on a list of criteria designed by the dev team to get what they thought were the best testers from the community?
Oh yeah, and as for NS channels, don't forget #evolutionarily too!
And... I think this discussion is over... Heh.... someone plz Lock this thread? It's already erking me...
And I really don't care what any of you say, I feel jilted by how the testers were picked and continue to be picked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So propose a new way to pick the testers.
There was a need for experienced clanners to test 1.1. Flayra and the DEV team asked, "Hey, who are the best in the USA at NS clanning?"... the response was the NS Archives top 10 list, which was pretty much spot on as far as North American NS clan scene at that time. If you were in a great NS clan at the time the Vet program was started, you were added as a Vet.
There really was no other way. There was only 1 active (and respected, no OGL thx) NS league operating at that time, CAL. And guess what the NS Archives top 10 was based on? Mostly CAL matches!
So yes, your claims have no merrit at all. Complaining about IRC users won't get you anywhere. Veterans were not picked because they can open IRC and chat up a storm, sorry to let you know that.
And... I think this discussion is over... Heh.... someone plz Lock this thread? It's already erking me... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
irc.gamesnet.net for the North American NS Clan scene, and the channels listed above.
Most of the euros are on irc.quakenet.org, not sure of the relevant channels there, though.
What if a NEW to NS player joins the game RIGHT NOW?
Hardly any servers.
Players **** off at each other screaming "KICK THIS N00B" for going 2nd gorge/building sensory
Aliens losing horribly 99% of the time due to a huge JP imbalance (on all but voogru servers)
I hardly think the New player would get a worse experience from a buggy 1.1 than in a current 1.04... especially since people expect mods to be buggy. All mods have a buggy stage... even NS 1.0 had bad lag and crashes.... but we still played because there was a community to play with. It wasn't the bugs that drove people off.
There was a need for experienced clanners to test 1.1. Flayra and the DEV team asked, "Hey, who are the best in the USA at NS clanning?"... the response was the NS Archives top 10 list, which was pretty much spot on as far as North American NS clan scene at that time. If you were in a great NS clan at the time the Vet program was started, you were added as a Vet.
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Granted, those are the best US NS teams out there, but if i recall a certain set of demos, team USA got womped by our European friends. Why aren't THEY doing some more work on 1.1? Hmm?!
Granted, those are the best US NS teams out there, but if i recall a certain set of demos, team USA got womped by our European friends. Why aren't THEY doing some more work on 1.1? Hmm?! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh please. #teamUS is barely half comprised of Veteran clans.... #teamUS has close ties with the Veteran clans, but that sort of match doesn't represent the skills of the individual teams at all. Just like teamEU isn't representative of the skill of torment or the other clans that participated in it.
pfft <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I urge you to read the main news page detailing Flayra's plans to expand the Vet program overseas.
That's a joke, people.
(It's all <3 up in diZ hizzayy!!)
However, it was probably a bad move to open the beta discussion forum. A lot of people read it with watering teeth, only to have to return to the JP/HMG game that is 1.04. It is obvious that this is frustrating, and I think the "why am I not a playtester" whinings are just a side-effect of this frustration.
I use to suggest a quick, voogru-like server patch to adress a few balance issues and bugs. It would help make 1.04 (or 1.05) a much more enjoyable game, thus taking away frustration from players and stress from developers and playtesters - especially if the beta forum is hidden again at the same time. However, people seem to be confident 1.1 is such a short while away from release this would not be worth the effort.