Draco = Smart French Dude
SoBe_Dragon
Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10465Members
Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10465Members
<div class="IPBDescription">my fav quote from his "rant"</div> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the same note, movement skills like JP using and Bhopping is removed. Now don't get me wrong, i won't go into another issue of bhopping, it is just the fact that something that <b>requires skill</b> was removed and nothing else was added.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
amen man.
amen man.
Comments
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=34589&st=0' target='_blank'>The full debate</a>
If you cannot think of a constructive argument here, please don't flame or argue - let the post die.
If you CAN think of something that won't lead to a massive flamewar, feel free to post - however, it might be a good idea to just let this whole bunnyhopping thing drop. Bhopping has been removed and probably won't make a comeback anytime soon, so complaining gets you nowhere here.
Just trying to stop yet another thread getting locked after the first few posts due to excessive flaming and insulting...
Why is that a bad thing?
The goal is to be intuitive to everyone, not reward players who devote lots of time to the game by including "skills".
If you cannot think of a constructive argument here, please don't flame or argue - let the post die.
If you CAN think of something that won't lead to a massive flamewar, feel free to post - however, it might be a good idea to just let this whole bunnyhopping thing drop. Bhopping has been removed and probably won't make a comeback anytime soon, so complaining gets you nowhere here.
Just trying to stop yet another thread getting locked after the first few posts due to excessive flaming and insulting... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is exactly why I linked to the other topic. It gives an example of how a debate should go.
The first thing to notice is that the quote isn't attempting to justify or demnify bunnyhopping but rather illustrating the straightforward nature of marine play. Suggesting that skill makes little difference in marine gameplay other than the ability to aim.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personnaly i hate bhopping as it ruins completely the atmosphere of NS and i am glad it was removed. Now it was just an example of a skill ability that was removed. I dont miss bhop and i am sure most Vets dont miss it either, but Bhopping requires skill (at least it is considered as such in Quake where i come from) to do manually and removing it remove a skill. To compensate that loss i think something should be added, like a new ability or weapon that takes some time to master. Right now bhop is dead, and that s good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now if the matter is whatever bhop is a skill or not, i say yes it is a skill.
Does it have its place in NS? No.
My point was something that takes time to master was removed and marines dont have (so far) no weapons/abilities that takes time to use correctly.
I cant help thinking of Starcraft, and those Vultures mines.
Regards,
Draco
Aliens should.
That belongs with them.
If you do, you don't have a say. In my opinion.
Why is that a bad thing?
The goal is to be intuitive to everyone, not reward players who devote lots of time to the game by including "skills".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry Insane. But you are wrong on that.
The goal is make the game intuitive to everyone <span style='color:red'>AND</span> reward players who devote lots of time to the game by including skills.
Very good example. These are problems that a game who are trying to recruit more players shouldnt have.
Especially in a game where you need to educate the players a bit more than 'shoot anything that moves'.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything in particular against bhopping. I liked it alot in QW DM, but when it started spreading to QW TF(the old and first team-play fps with some substance) it certainly didnt fit with the game and the balance.
In a team-based game, balance first, and intuitive because it's harder for noobs to get into it than your average CS game.
Off-topic: Bad coding has affected another fave MOD of mine, too. The strafe-shooting with Kar and Enfield rifles in Day of Defeat 1.0 is totally horrible. Where's the point of having machineguns in the game when a random "railgun" killer who's practiced a little can drop 'em off in a split second while running/strafing from behind a corner? Oh, the horrific obnoxiousness of it all..
So many marines do this now that it makes it significantly harder for skulks to kill the marines.
the demos dont work but i typed that up a long **** time ago. Bottom line...an element to the game was removed that required knowledge and skill...dulling the game
sup man. I keep seeing you in the scott's alien rampage server.
*EDIT* i forgot to adding anything that had to do with this thread.
yes, i am rather dissapointed they removed bunnyhopping... oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
Here's what I posted in the other version of this thread:
--
I understand that as a veteran player, you want everything to be all about FPS skill. The aliens were designed very much with this in mind. The marines on the other hand, were designed to be more about being in the right place at the right time, with the right equipment. FPS skill definitely still matters, but it's much closer to a Counter-strike level of skill, not a Gloom, Quake III or even NS aliens level of skill.
You also have to remember that there are many tradeoffs to make. The more the game caters to the vets, the more it dissuades new players. Bunny hopping is a perfect example. Either the vet players are annoyed that BH isn't in, or the masses are annoyed that it IS in. The paradox is this: without a mass of public players, there is no competitive scene. Yet, the competitive scene drives pub play as well. Both sides feed into each other, and trade offs have to be made to make both sides happy (even if they each think "if only x and y were changed").
In order for NS to get more popular, many of these changes are necessary. Hopefully there will be enough hard-core skills to keep you guys (vets) happy also.
-
Also, if you don't think are counters in NS, then you haven't been playing enough or they're not properly balanced. A lot of people keep asking for the list of official counters between things, but I'd rather you guys figure that out for yourselves.
If clan players don't feel NS has enough depth for them, I can think about adding in new movement abilities, JP physics tweaks, locational damage or recoil in the next version. I can already envision my inbox filling up with complaints...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flayra, I hope you read this, but why don't you either make a vote thread on the forum and advertise it on the main site, or make a java-based poll on the main site and see what the entire fanbase thinks?
Thing is, I know even as a newb, I loved bunny hop being in there, albeit partially because I had been playing CS for years before 1.0 retail was out, and somewhat knew how to do it, but even in CS I didn't mind the bunny hop, but rather was fascinated trying to do it. Who's to say that the masses won't appreciate it, and on top of that, who's to say that people comming from other HL mods and games before it won't make up the masses, and there for possibly know how to bunny hop? Not every newb has to be a complete FPS newb :\.
So, just my two cents, but I think you should make a pole on the main page to see it's approval rating before you take it out based on the idea that most people don't want it in.
However, if you really want it out because of gameplay/realism reasons, I can understand that, but let's not forget that this is a game where the marines face rapidly evolving space aliens that can gain traits and evolve into new life forms by magically getting resources from resource nodes teleported to them, while on space ships, many times. Let's also not forget that these supposed metalic resources come in the form of gas, and somehow are able to account for every single part of a building's production, and that the comm can teleport his troops things, also that the recoil system is anything but realistic.
My point is, the game isn't really realistic, so making it based on realism is kind of a contradiction.
I support the NS team with all it's movement's thus far, and you all are doing a damned good job, NS as it is must be the single best and most innovative mod I have ever played.
I wish you luck,
-Masa-
I'm prolly the only person in NS who switches to his knife before his pistol after his lmg ammo runs out, lol. But seriously if you want to learn how to dodge skulks without bhoping just try knifing one. You'll be amazed at some of the moves you pull off to avoid being bitten <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
All the top players use bhop scripts, circle strafe scripts, replace the muzzle flash sprite etc.
Anything that makes the game more "fair" and less "downloadable" is always going to be cited as "bad" or "lacking skill" to players who [B]rely</b> on such things.
Good players adapt; bad players complain about how it "should" be.
Standard marines SHOULD NOT be moving faster than standard skulks; there's no debate here.
amen man. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pickpocketing <b>is</b> also a skill. What's your point?
can you do it? If you can, why dont you? Its a skill just like anything else. No random nub can bhop.
Pick pocketing IS a skill. Thats why the people that do it are good at it...they make easy money and they **** off the nubs that are stupid enough to leave their wallet in their back pocket, heh
Off-topic: Bad coding has affected another fave MOD of mine, too. The strafe-shooting with Kar and Enfield rifles in Day of Defeat 1.0 is totally horrible. Where's the point of having machineguns in the game when a random "railgun" killer who's practiced a little can drop 'em off in a split second while running/strafing from behind a corner? Oh, the horrific obnoxiousness of it all.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude it's not the strafing that's the problem, it's the fack that you can shoot someone in the toenail with the kar/enfield and kill them.
NS is a game of very precise balance. Bunny Hopping is something that disturbs this balance.
NS also tries to be a very atmospheric game. A game where you feel like you're there with the ol' squad. When was the last time you saw the elite special forces jumping around like fwuffy wuffie bunnies, shouting, "PH33R M3H "elite" 5K1LLZz!!!!!!11" and gliding around the ground while firing off a whole clip of ammo? Bunny Hopping might take skill to use. But it's still a bug, and NS is still Flayra's game. What he says goes.
Well, for Aliens, I think bunnyhopping isn't that much of a problem. I binded my bunnyhop to my mousewheel for 2 reasons.
1.) My space bar is retarded.
2.) To scare Marines.
--You're questioning number 2. Well, try it. Go into a vent, and scroll your mousewheel as fast as you can. It sounds like 50 Skulks are hopping in, ready to donce on someone. Movement for me on Aliens isn't really a problem. The Gorge is the only one I dislike, and he's not [i]too[/b] slow.
That's my opinion on bunnyhopping.
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