Marine Vs Marine, Alien Vs Alien

X_Stickman · June 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">What do you think about it?</div> This isn't an "OMG I CAME UP WITH THIS WICKED NEW IDEA, THE RINS WOULD BE OMG I GOTTA GUN AND IM SHOOTING OTHER RINES!!!!1111111" idea, this is asking people what they think about the actual idea.

First of all, i'd like to ask if there has been any testing of these modes at all yet, and what they were like in gameplay terms. personaly, i can see the Marine vs Marine mode bringing in a lot of CS n00bs (and i dont mean all cs players, i mean the actual n00bs of CS, the reason a lot of us stopped playing it) to NS. While this isnt a bad thing in itself (hey, more players) it could see what is now a tactical game degenerating into a free for all, with TONS more rambo's running off by themselves. I dont know about you lot, but i dont like being on my own as a marine in NS. I'm not one who likes surprises, and a skulk dropping on my head is quite a surprise. But then again, Arial combat between to JPs, or HA's fighting each other from each end of a coridoor would be very interesting. I'd like to know if there would be strategy or deathmatch, because in aliens against marines, the main marine objective is to wipe out the aliens, BUT! stop them from getting another hive up as well. This is two directives, and because you cant obtain the first one straight away, it is usual for the team to "lock down" a hive. In marine vs Marine, it is basicaly a team deathmatch, with occasional fighting over Res nodes.

Alien vs Alien is another story. This mode would be HARD. A lot of people have trouble hitting MARINES as a skulk, what about 2 carapaced + celerity skulks going at it? But unless there's 6 hives on an alien vs alien map (which i doubt, the maps are big now), it's going to be pretty similar to gameplay now: Get to the hives before THEY do. I think this mode would require a lot more thinking that the rine vs rine one, and it would be interesting to see an onos fighting another onos.

Anyway, those are my thoughts about these. What are yours? (btw, this wasnt a suggestion, this was my ideas on the modes that we are pretty sure are going to be implemented)

Dread · June 2003

The more I think about it, the less I believe AvA is coming. It would be very difficult to implement and would require completely new maps.

MvM might be feasible after _many_ changes and I'm actually excited on those epic Commander vs. Commander battles with wicked strategies <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

MMZ_Torak · June 2003

This play mode does not appeal to me at all. The differences in the teams is the most impressive thing about NS (game mechanics wise). AvA or MvM would be too similar to the rest of the mindless DM drivel that already permeates the fps genre.

ZERG · June 2003

Same race versus same race game modes would require A LOT of tweaking... especially AvA.

Pugsley · June 2003

AvA would be pretty good if there were 4 hives on the map, that way you would get great fade vs fade battles over the hives, but still keep the chance of getting an onos.

However the main problems would be:
1)models, a whole new set of skins would be required, and how owuld custom models work?
2)Gorge's, a skulk could kill a gorge easy peesy, but a skulk defence would b almost useless.
3)Umbra, will it still do anything?

However MvM battles dont sound too good:
1)JPs, they wont provide much of a benefit
2)Sentry guns, how can they fight off someone else who can just potshot them easily?
3)Whole new set of skins.
4)What are they fighting over?

antichrist · June 2003

I say bad idea, NS was always meant to be aliens vs marines thats what made it stand apart. I be CS with building why would you wish that? Plus no one wil be aliens anymore they will prob only build marine vs marine maps afterwards then NS will be a shambles

My 2 cents

Gadzuko · June 2003

I don't forsee doom and destruction of NS if we just include these modes, but I'm not much of a fan of them. It just doesn't really excite me to think of marines vs. marines or aliens vs. aliens... it would require too much work and too much balancing which could have made vanilla NS a better game, in my opinion.

Brave_Ulysses · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Jun 3 2003, 01:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't forsee doom and destruction of NS if we just include these modes, but I'm not much of a fan of them. It just doesn't really excite me to think of marines vs. marines or aliens vs. aliens... it would require too much work and too much balancing which could have made vanilla NS a better game, in my opinion.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Plus almost all games do that sort of thing (except for that AvA suggestion) and NS stodd out for me because it DIDN'T do what other games did.

SentrySteve · June 2003

Why not? If the programmer is willing to program it, if the mappers are willing to map it, if the modler is willing to model it - why not? It would only increase the number of players that play NS -- something that is good -- not bad. If you dont think you would like it, dont play it.

Gadzuko · June 2003

If they want to do it, I wouldn't argue or stop playing NS or anything... I just think it would be a waste of time and wouldn't help the community much.

kingmob · June 2003

if i was given a vote....i would say no

the reason i love NS is because it's like i get to play two different games depending on the team
besides Alien flesh would never taste as good as a sweaty marine

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> .......... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

CHOMP

Byeka · June 2003

I said it before, I'll say it again.

MvM = CS = bad

X_Stickman · June 2003

Some of you seem to think this is a suggestion of mine, but i assure you it is not. For those of you who dont know, just after NS came out there was a question in the FAQ that asked about AvA and MvM, and the answer was that they were in development or something. I was merely asking peoples opinions about this and would it/ wouldn't it expand on gameply.

I'd go with yes: Have it like the Para-maps in DOD. When they first came out, everyone hated them, they were too much like CS. but then people started to like them, and in the end it was a pretty much equaly divided opinion, love it or hate it. If there were maps like (for instance) ns_bootcamp you could say it was a CR simulation for the marines training, and they are fighting each other using virtual weapons or some **** like that. ns_homeworld could be the aliens one, where every 50 years there is a biological time bomb that makes the kharra fight each other (each hive fights the others, strongest one survives to pass on the genes) or something like that. I'm just brainstorming ideas, im sure the devs have decided whether to include these or not, and if they have, they have got the ideas written down.

Mythr1l · June 2003

would be very interesting...

personally i would like to pit my skills vs an opponent with equal strength, right now in NS your either fighting skulks (where your opponent has a disadvantage) or your fighting fades (where you have a disadvantage)

alien vs alien... would be strange, but i think more fun perhaps, MvM would be great, would finnally show the newb sprayers apart from the people with actual skills.

napi · June 2003

good point well made stickman

i think alien vs alien would be poor at the beginning... becauase gorges would get slaughtered by skulks. think how quickly a player who knows the level can get to a gorge through vents / bunnyhop / general fast running...

almost all gorges follow a similar pattern, and go to the same res nodes in similar orders. gorges would just get maimed left right and center

but MvM i think could be good. the idea of it being a simulation for training purposes sounds pretty cool...

one obvious way to map the levels : do half the map, then mirror it for the other team. keeps it perfectly fair.

but AvA i think would be poor. unless skulks were removed, and starting alien was fade? :o and gorge started at level2 celerity speed.. that could be gravy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Nupi · June 2003

Hmm...mmm.. i dont know, but i'm having this feeling that maybe marine vs marine and/or alien vs alien, doesnt quite fit in, because, what would be the point of those two species fighting againts each other ?. What would be the story?, one more question, what would be the key objective?. Well lets throw in one more while we're at it, would it really be that fun?.

I'm not againts it, but i dont really see a point having marines fighting againts marines, and/or aliens chomping other aliens.. the idea feels empty :>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> *the right way*

lolfighter · June 2003

Agree with Nupi there. One of the coolest part is the motivation that NS gives you. It's man vs. beast, terran vs. alien, human vs. kharaa. Why would two clusters of bacteria start fighting each other? And why would the frontiersmen be infighting, when they have enough trouble staying alive when they fight together?
I don't think it would ever become more than a curiosity even if implemented.

Thansal · June 2003

To back up Stickman let me say a few quick things

Flay has said that MvM and AvA are definat POSSIBILITIES for further things (ie v2.0)

It was aid that is it is implemented new models would be done also (thats 7 new models, not THAT hard for the amazing modelers that we have)

and also there would be ALOT of game play tweaks to make it work.

Personaly I would love to see this.

2 commanders going after each other would be really fun (it really would be an RTS where your troops are real people)

skulking agianst each other would be really fun, it would be a compleatly diff atmospher (duh) but still really fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Again, I hope that this comes around (eventualy)

Redeye · June 2003

This might sound a bit crazy, but what if, instead of AvA and MvM there was a different team element, allies,
there could be two alien teams versus two marine teams and there could be a bit of betrayel and sabotage if either team wants to spread, for instance the two alien allies start out with on hive each on a three hive map, who gets to spread and conquer the enemies and who gets to be the worker team (one team could be gorges and skulks getting resources for the other team)?
But what if the workers want a go and decide to take the other hive or even the whole other team and could get a new unit, a spy type alien which disguises itself as the other team and could sabotage their hive and chambers, then the skulks could go and eliminate the team and take the 3 hives.
This could be the same with the marines except with resourses and securing hives.
I can see this is almost impossible and would require huge maps, but it would count for some epic battles.
This would sound really crazy but what if aliens and marines could allie to fight other alien and marine allies.

Anyway, this is my random crazy rant.
Just want to know your thoughts.

im_lost · June 2003

A big issue, in my opinion, is making the teams look different so you know who is on your team. In CS it wasn't too much of a problem because there was plenty of light. In NS there are lots of dark areas to affect vision, so different colors doesn't work well, unless one team is brighter than the other, and then that team has a disadvantage on camouflage. Also, what would be the process for joining teams? Two doorways that both say Marines?

romano · June 2003

MvM ... I can see it now ...

Team 1: Comm they have a HUGE base around this corner! TONS OF TURRENTS! WE NEED SIEGE!!!!!!111
<Team 1 builds a base around the corner, and starts upgrading to siege...>
Team 2: OMG COMM THEY ARE BUILDING A BASE AROUND THAT CORNER! GET A SIEGE UP QUICKLY!111
<Team 2 builds starts upgrading to siege>
<both teams lay down a couple siege cannons...>

MvM and AvA are very difficult because the teams needs to have advantages and disadvantages over each other. Thats how an RTS works. Marines can build forward siege bases and use GLs, but aliens can use bile bomb, acid rocket and spores as a mobile fighting unit. The differences are what make the game balanced and worth playing.

With AvA, how about 2 regen acid rocket fades trying to kill each other down a long hall... tedious? I think so. Or 2 regen oni trying to duke it out... Never....going... to... win, heh.

Asterisk · June 2003

as far as i'm concerned NO and that is a big no. first the game is not made for this style. each side has strength and weaknesses but if it was same V same they would both have the same weaknesses and strengths. this woudl be compleatly junk most all current balanceing.

BadKarma · June 2003

I keep getting an image of 6 skulks attacking an onos. Interesting anyway.

Thansal · June 2003

^^^^^^^ that why I like the idea karma

personaly I would prefer it if both sides COULD get 3 hives

xenos charging oni YES!!!!

Macguyvok · June 2003

Here's my $.02 on the subject.

NS is unique, in that it has to totally different teams, facing off. It's the only game that comes close to having a true to life aliens vs marines game. I feel that to chancge that would change NS, in a way I don't like.

That being said, I'd LOVE to see co-op games. 2 marine teams, vs 1 alien team *since 2 alien teams is really pretty redundant. Maybe 6 hives, who knows on that one.* You could still have it be like 12vs 12, only this time, 12 aliens, vs 6 marines, vs 6 marines. the 2 marines don't share rez, and they don't share upgrades. This would be setting marines back just enough that the 2 teams could work in tandem *aka share defenses* and the 2 comanders could work together, but they wouldn't pwn aliens. I think this could possibly be ballanced, plus I think it makes sens story line wise, the TSA sent 2 groups, since 1 seems to get killed alot..... Change of tactics on the TSA part, really...

the_stalker · June 2003

kinda not a fan of it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>
kinda would be confusing to tell enemy from friend and can you think of jp vs jp fighting? lol you will be dogfighting of course it could be pretty fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Marine Vs Marine, Alien Vs Alien

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