Vents
Teioh
Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
Canadia Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9453Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Should vents look right into a hive?</div> With exploits and such I was wondering if vents that look into hive will have the lip (see my wonderful pic below). Once a hmg/jp guy gets in there, it's practically over.
edit: my lovely drawing won't work, I guess...
edit: my lovely drawing won't work, I guess...
Comments
Basically... u can make maps so that they tell if an alien is right there, it deletes a see through 1 unit bar across the top of the vent *33 units high*, then puts it back *trigger presence, and func_wall_Toggle* The skulk can't tell the difference, yet mairnes are blocked... hehe.. no marines in vents!! *unless you want them to be able to be there!
Ok, I make a vent 33 units high (the hight of skulks/crouching marines) and I put a func_wall_toggle across the opening, making it 1 unit high, then put a trigger presence on both sides of the func_wall_toggle. Set the trigger presence to only toggle the wall for aliens, and walla! Instant no marine vents!
Yeah, I've tried both, flanking doesn't work and lerk spikes don't work either due to a) the crouch bug and b) comm health/ammo spamming.
so it's mostly a moot issue, yes?
But, no I'd say no marines in vents that open into hives
Heres my attempt at the drawing
---------------
.................X
.
.
.
.
---------------
. = ignore
- = top/bottom of vent
X = lip thing
That seems to work well, as opposed to pushing marines out of the vents
<img src='http://members.shaw.ca/adam-d/vent.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
If you are selective about which ones you do this for, then people have to learn which vents they can enter.
Vents are not to be alien-only. The only real considerations to worry about are 1) Can this improve alien movement and tactics? and 2) Will marines be able to get back out once they get in? If you have a vent on ground level, it shouldn't have any massive drops or anything. Vents that have entrances higher on the walls and ceilings can get away with this since to get there in the first place the marines will likely have to try and use a jetpack and will have the necessary mobility when they finally get there.
Marines attacking the hive from the safety of a vent IS a big problem, especially when jetpacks and hmg's are made abailable to the team (or rambo in some cases). It is close to impossible for the aliens to counter a hmg'er holed up in a vent w/out fades before the hive goes down.
A few examples in which this lame tactic could (and has) determined the outcome of a game include Satallite Communications in Tanith, Cargo Bay in Nothing, Ventalation in Caged, Engine Room in Bast, Computer Core in Eclipse, and pretty much all the hives in Nancy (that is, if a marine knows how to navigate the system).
My picture of aliens have always been kinda like a swarm... and I've always pictured access between hives to be fairly direct, especially if the story plot of a given map is constructed as such. Vents help that, and provide unique tactics for aliens, especially if mappers get creative. Marines, however, have to have tactics more, and they have to rely on the way the ship/base/whatever was orriginally designed for human access... how many ships/bases/whatevers do you think are going to have air vents that are large enough to fit a armored, full size marine into? I mean space is at a premium, and venteleation does not need to be very big. That's why I feel marines should be left out of vents as a plot device so to speak.
Anyway, it IS the mapper's personal choice to remove marines from vents, or not.. I just suggested a way to do this. Also, I don't want to take credit for it, it's not my idea, it was Shadowics who thought it up, tested it, and told me about it. He deserves the credit if anyone uses this, and wants to credit someone, not me.
1) It means that marines can't sit in a vent blowing a hive to bits with no skulk capable of running down there and eating them and
2) It is much more intuitive. Why shouldn't a mrine be allowed to go down a vent? He is slowed down considerably (in real life, he would be crawling along flat on his stomach) and the vents are big enough to allow entrance. If you want to limit access to vents, place them higher up or make them smaller so a marine can't get in (and if a crouched marine is just as high as a skulk,tough luck soldier). A vent at ground level that you can't get in "just because the mapper says so" will be a real nuisance, and a map using something like that probably will never be official. There are enough lessons to learn in NS already, we don't need the "what vents you are not supposed to enter"-lesson too.
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
-----------I I------I
_____ I___I I-------
I________I____
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
It's pretty simple and marines would have hard time travelling in them because they move so slow and JP's would be less effective in them because of the quickturns and Marines couldn't take advantage of their longrange weapons. Skulks would really pwn and scare the crap out of marines just by popping behind a corner <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: And I'd really like to see those vents that point right in to the hive removed. I think Marines should at least drop in to the Hive-room if they want to kill the hive.
Maybe friction vs. walls needs to be turned up for JPers so they can't slide their heads along the ceiling getting that super speed boost. Would probably solve the problem but I can already hear the whining, even though it's gameplay AND realism. Ever seen someone run their head along the ceiling and speed up because of it? Nah.
I'd go with that or changing the vents like in Dan's idea, no direct fire point on the hive. We don't get to chose our placement so why not make them quasi protected? Doors/entrances are still fair game of course, it's just those vents <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Btw, ever notice how marines usually have a max of 2 entrances to their base while aliens almost always have 3 or more?
As it is now, a crouching marine is the same size as a skulk. This allows marine to fit into vents so small that their head actually sticks out of the top and they can see into the void (Fades too, but that's another issue). In my mind, vents are supposed to be an alien advantage - letting them move quickly and relatively invisibly all over the map. The problem is - as soon as marines get JPs it becomes a marine advantage, letting them mow down skulks in the cramped compartment and take the express route to the hive. Think about it realistically for a second, imagine a marine, in body armor, with a Jet pack, carrying a machine gun, and trying to crawl trough an air vent. It's not going to happen. At the most, he could crawl on his belly and be slow and defenseless. Vents just aren't big enough for marines to fit if they are barely big enough for skulks - that would make sense - having a marine crouching in body armor walking through an air vent doesn't make sense.