1.1j

MonKeyTurD · May 2003

just a few comments of mine <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

res sucking cut is a good thing, only cos res towers are cheaper now! good idea still <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
new fade ability seems good, from what i understand, you can activate the ablility and then switch to acid rocket or something, so then if they shoot you they will just be suppying you with more rockets or what ever else there is <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

also another thing im worried about, if sucking isnt around, is multiple gorges still viable?

ViPr · May 2003

has anything been done about bodies disappearing instantly? i was confused about not seeing a body and therefore not realizing that a marine had died and i used the dropped guns as clues that a marine died there but now the guns won't appear so it's going to be very confusing.

SoBe_Dragon · May 2003

3500hp hives are going to die in miliseconds to the new GL's

Forlorn · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ May 30 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Forlorn, I think the whole weapons idea in that quote is silly. Not dropping a weapon when you die? That's just an invitation for frustration, not funner gameplay. Playing hot-potato with the HMG user might be funner than just trying to kill one guy and having the marines all yell in frustration and f4, or just concentrate on one guy and the rest be a cakewalk. And lowered prices are a bad idea anyway, especially for something like the GL. IMHO, GL and HMG prices ought to be switched.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Answer this question, and put realism aside:

Why can you pick up a HMG, but not an onos?
Why can you pick up a wielder, but not a gorge?

By making it so the marines have to rely on each other more, and also making it so there are <b>classes</b> of marines now, rather than just a general rabble of marines, you get more diverse gameplay and more emphasis on teamwork.

And the lowered prices don't seem to be that detremential to the overall balence.

MEShootHere · May 2003

All sounds good to me..very radical gameplay changes..
tho I don't understand what the new fade weapon's supposed to do.
Any enlightenment? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

EDIT: ok there's a thread above this that discusses it..not too sure about it. It's different, that's for sure but it'll feel odd. Thats ok tho, I never fade anyway <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Moon · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ May 30 2003, 11:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ May 30 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Forlorn, I think the whole weapons idea in that quote is silly. Not dropping a weapon when you die? That's just an invitation for frustration, not funner gameplay. Playing hot-potato with the HMG user might be funner than just trying to kill one guy and having the marines all yell in frustration and f4, or just concentrate on one guy and the rest be a cakewalk. And lowered prices are a bad idea anyway, especially for something like the GL. IMHO, GL and HMG prices ought to be switched. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Answer this question, and put realism aside:

Why can you pick up a HMG, but not an onos?
Why can you pick up a wielder, but not a gorge?

By making it so the marines have to rely on each other more, and also making it so there are <b>classes</b> of marines now, rather than just a general rabble of marines, you get more diverse gameplay and more emphasis on teamwork.

And the lowered prices don't seem to be that detremential to the overall balence.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I thought the idea of classes of marines would not happen..."not now not ever" some official quote I believe.

AutumnTwilight · May 2003

My question is what is being put in to replace sucking? Sure, there's resources gained for kills, but how is this going to help gorges? In 1.04, Gorges get 3x the resources. With the sucking, Gorges again had the ability to get resources faster than other classes, and rightly so as they need more resources for all of the structures they'll be placing. However, with sucking and the 3x shares gone, what's left for gorges?

If it is just killing for resources, gorges could be in trouble. I guess many of the structures are cheaper now, but is that enough to warrant Gorges getting no more than anyone else (And with killing for resources, quite possibly a lot less than everyone else, unless you're a super Battle-Gorge)...

Anybody else find this puzzling? Just wondering how it'll work out, and if I missed something.

Twilight

KaiserRoll · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twilight[ChBr] @ May 31 2003, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>My question is what is being put in to replace sucking? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Gobs and gobs of resource towers. They are dirt cheap now.

5c0ut-WHoR3 · May 2003

1.1 gorges cost 20 res to evolve into right?

Well start with 25 res gorge, wait 5 res (very quick in most cases) drop rt.
build oc because of weak rt.

And you'll start with proberly 2 gorges maybe 3 if a 26-32 player game very quick res.

this = <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'> quickly.

Zenn · May 2003

Hive health is too low as it is now, and you wanna lower it? Having the hive "sometimes randomly umbra self" is not IMO a legit reason to half the health of the hive. GL and Seige are uneffected by umbra, not to mention you nearly doubled the GL damage to begin with (and everyone knows, two people with GL spam= invincible marines). I don't see the aliens ever winning a game unless they get Onos as quick as possible and rush the IPs. Whats the new GL damage? 250 a peice now? 4 shots, 250 a peice...1000 damage, two people, 2000 damage. So, two people with JP/GL kill hive in about, what...14 shots? Thats less than two full clips from both of them. Wow...great idea.

dr_d · May 2003

Hopefully the vets that are play testing will just do a mass of amount of shotgun rushes and the hive health will quickly go back up to a reasonable amount.

seriously though 3500 is a joke for the hive, and I understand he's going for shorter games but what is a good idea and what is just blatent game shortening needs to be taken into consideration.

Bogglesteinsky · May 2003

isnt 3500 the current health of the upgraded armoury??

insanely low

Snidely · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ May 30 2003, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ May 30 2003, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I see the Fade's ability makes it a good minesweeper - metabolise, step on the ten-mine stack, get boosted up to full energy, repeat and rinse. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Energy, not health/armor.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, I know. But he won't take any damage for it, and the energy boost means he can repeat the process until the area is de-mined.

Asraniel · May 2003

stop whining, i cannot hear it any more!!!!!!
they are testing it, it will be balanced!!!!
a hive costs less, they are built quicker, i think you will be able to defend your hive a little bit, and a guy with GL is weak against an alien, even two. wich means, even a skulk can take em out(well, not when they take out the pistol, but the pistol is less effective than in 1.04). Take a look a the whole picture, not only parts of it....

Driftwood · May 2003

I agree that marine weapons disappearing when they die is counter-intuitive, but in terms of gameplay and balance it may end up being a good thing.

However, I know that it will lead to frustration and problems in certain situations. Let me list a few that come to mind:
- Getting an expensive weapon that won't hang around after you are gone, promotes individualism for marines. It may lead equipped marines playing more carefully and cautiously as their dying means that the team has just lost 20 / 25 in res. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as the current gung-ho playing style of marines isn't very human.
- Selfishness of people may cause that instead of throwing the HMG to a teammember with full health, wounded marine whines for health "because I have HMG" even if the commander is preoccupied somewhere else.
- It may also lead to newbie bashing when the one HMG team could afford ends up in the hands of a new player who runs off and dies taking the res investment with him.

However, there are naturally benefits. Alien making a kill does immediate damage to enemy res. Marine trains where the dropped HMG is picked up immediately become impossible. One HMG can't be picked over and over near a phasegate and overall, aliens and marines become more even in this aspect. However, time will tell. Overall, the 1.1j looks pretty good, maybe we'll see the finished 1.1 some day. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Align · May 2003

I thought the changelog stated that GL now does 140 dmg to aliens now? So yes, quite invincible marines.

Heavy_D · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Little Hunter @ May 30 2003, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As for the umbraing around spawning players, I don't think something should be done to prevent marines from spawn camping, with out doing something to prevent aliens from spawn camping.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Maybe IP's could come with automatic electrification? I dunno what sort of range electricity has, so it might be a little good, allowing you to defend other structures with IP electricity. But if it's something that only hits things in melee range, it shouldn't be too useful, except to prevent spawn chewing by a lone rambo-skulk.

Align · May 2003

Look, marines spawn with upgrades, and if they don't have any armor/weapon upgrades they were early rushed and suck anyway.
A spawning marine has about 5000% better chance of killing the "spawncamper" than a spawning skulk.

Forlorn · May 2003

The reason marine spawn camping is so bad without umbra is that THERE IS NO WAY FOR A SKULK TO ATTACK BACK.

You pretty much hope for them to miss. Which is lame. Very lame.

On the other hand, marines can easily fight back when they spawn. Plus they spawn faster. And they can dodge their opponents attacks.

Aminal · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ May 31 2003, 07:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> A spawning marine has about 5000% better chance of killing the "spawncamper" than a spawning skulk.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
unless its a 1.04 onos with paralyse <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

napi · May 2003

you think a lightly electrified ip will stop an onos who wants to spawn camp?

*said in tone of voice when morpheus goes "you think thats air you're breathing now?" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

KingKupo · May 2003

there are so many changes in this log that embody the essence of W00TNES.

xioutlawix · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asraniel @ May 31 2003, 04:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> stop whining, i cannot hear it any more!!!!!!
they are testing it, it will be balanced!!!!  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Amen, someone please shut the mouths of these filthy whiners who seem to know what's best for 1.1 without having played a day of it in their lives <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Moon · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ May 31 2003, 10:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asraniel @ May 31 2003, 04:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> stop whining, i cannot hear it any more!!!!!!
they are testing it, it will be balanced!!!! </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Amen, someone please shut the mouths of these filthy whiners who seem to know what's best for 1.1 without having played a day of it in their lives <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You do realize of course that <b>nobody</b> has played 1.1 right ? 1.1x maybe, but not the finished product.

Just because some of the posters have not played 1.1x does not automatically give you the right or anyone else for that matter to insist that they be censored. I've seen alot of intelligent discussion and alot of interesting ideas put forth by various people, regardless of their status in the grand NS scheme of things.

Please think twice before posting such a comment.

xioutlawix · May 2003

I'm not referring to the people making intelligent / well educated discussion.
What I AM however referring to, are the nub-tards saying "omg, ______ change WILL do ______ to the game and this simply cannot be omg fix it now WTH are u people doing!?!?"

Mainly, my gripe is with individuals who seem to think that the limited experience they have playing 1.04 is relevent ground to stand upon when forming a 'valid' opinion on certain documented changes for the next beta patch. They disagree wholeheartedly with the dev's decisions on matters having had no idea of what kind of progression is being made in terms of the game's flow.

They also seem to want to gripe any time ANY sort of a nerf is introduced, no matter for what team or what reason it seems to be, its simply beyond them to imagine removing a use or ability that they've become so accustomed to.

I stand by my original statement, proclaiming that this is a beta test. Not a time for every whiney tard in the community to complain about prospective changes that don't even affect them yet.

Silicon · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KillaBite @ May 30 2003, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ok my understanding of the new fade ability is that the damage it takes get's added to your energy yet you still take damage. There for if you got hit with 50 damage you get 50 energy but, you still loose 50 health. Life goes down, engergy goes up. This could be usefull for when you run out of energy from acid spamming and you're under enemy fire. Get your energy back and spam again. I do not believe this makes you invincible.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
correct but people on these forums aren't understanding this apparently. energy =! health

im_lost · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Silicon @ Jun 2 2003, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KillaBite @ May 30 2003, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ok my understanding of the new fade ability is that the damage it takes get's added to your energy yet you still take damage. There for if you got hit with 50 damage you get 50 energy but, you still loose 50 health. Life goes down, engergy goes up. This could be usefull for when you run out of energy from acid spamming and you're under enemy fire. Get your energy back and spam again. I do not believe this makes you invincible. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
correct but people on these forums aren't understanding this apparently. energy =! health</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
If metabolism doesn't prevent any of the damage, then it is a wasted ability. The changelog says that damage is "converted" to energy, which means that it is changed from damage to energy, and the result is that the damage is no longer there. Most people believe that this means all of the damage. It might only be some fraction of the damage. We will find out eventually.

Macguyvok · June 2003

Well, I just wanted to throw something out about spawn camping. Personally, I think that when a marine spawn, it should kill ANYTHING that's in it's way, including a skulk. Other that that, I think umbra'ed aliens is a good thing, and that marined need no "aid" to keep ppl from spwon cmaping... I've never had that happen to me, unless you mean the ocasional skulk/fade chomping on the ip b/c marines had lost anyway..... So... Leave it be.

On the Metabolize side of the fence, I think it's unique, and reflects Flay's slightly off view of the world.... a view that's given him some of the most orriginal, and ultra creative ideas he's made into some installer called Natural Selection. I have a feeling that some "elite" F4d3s will use it to thier great advantage.. I can see the following: "Blink, Meta, Acid rocket, Blink" As a widely used tactic.... hehe... I like the idea! Go Flay!

Also.. I want to make this clear, here and now.. I will be extremely upset if 1.1 is released any sooner than July 4th. Reason? It could be that much better if held off till the 5th! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Forlorn · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Macguyvok @ Jun 2 2003, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well, I just wanted to throw something out about spawn camping. Personally, I think that when a marine spawn, it should kill ANYTHING that's in it's way, including a skulk.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Two problems:

1. Kill their own team mates who spawn together? That's not good.

2. How are you supposed to kill IP's, if every time someone spawns they die?

Align · June 2003

Besides, that already happens- if too a lesser degree - - - try standing on an IP and let a bot spawn while you are standing there. It also kills any friendly marine.

1.1j

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