Just Wondering Exactly What They Did To Thejetpack
RPGreg2600
Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14578Members
Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14578Members
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Im glad though, can get very annoying if im alien and skulk and there is some JP's flying around my head for a couple of mins wiithout coming down..
Damn, does that mean I'll have to cheat to shield myself from those pesky skulks? *throws tantrum*
I think you missed the point of their argument then.
Being able to fly and bite the jetpackers to death was one of the main arguments ive been reading about if not The main one for keeping lerk bite. What point am i missing?
They recharge in the air it's just you barely get any thrust with Heavy Weapons, with just the LMG it is like the 1.04 JP minus the fps bug.
Now that you wont be able to manuver when you jump, and the fact that you wont be able to fly with a jetpack like you can now, is going to make the marine game even more of "shock the monkey" than it is right now. When will people learn....when you slow down the players and their movements, you slow down your speed of mind, and thought process as well. Less concentration is needed because you dont need to concentrate on where you are going next....rather, you can relax and remember that when you fall, you are a free meal....
Example...what class is harder to play? HWguy, or medic? The medic...why? Because of the manuvers that he can do...bhopping, conc jumping, nade jumping etc.
Example 2....what version of CS was harder to play? Current, or pre-bhop....Pre-bhop...why? Because of the manuvers that you were able to do. Players could effectivly move more quickly around the map making the game more interesting and actually making you think quickly and be on your toes. Now without bhopping, the game has come to people spamming flash nades at their spawns and spraying pr0n everywhere.
So what is going to be more fun? V1.04, or V1.1? V1.04...why? Because nothing compares to having an hmg and 4 skulks trying to kill you all while avoiding firing O chambers and webbing. Now its just gonna be.......Up.....Down.....game over man! No thought process, no speed of mind, no quick reaction time neccessary, no need to think on your toes...just let the physics system kill you.
I think everyone needs to remember where the roots of half-life are...fun, first person, quick paced action fighting. Not "waa, this doesnt fit the environment"
The jetpack is being nerfed for two main reasons. First, the JP/HMG rush is currently all but impossible to stop if the aliens don't have two-hive abilities (web, umbra, fades with ARs, leap). With the 1.04 tech tree, it's entirely possible to churn out two or three JP/HMGs before the aliens build a hive, and the game is no fun, particularly for the Kharaa, if the marines have a tactic that always gives a 80-90% success rate.
Second, the infamous fps bug, where players with high-end computers can fly forever because they recharge as fast as they expend fuel. You should NOT be able to fly forever. You were never meant to. Whether or not it is fun to exploit, it is a known and acknowledged BUG, so must be fixed.
Not having played 1.1 myself, I don't know exactly how bad the nerfing is, but the goal of the playtesters and vets is to make the game more fun, not less. This change will not remove the "thought process"... It'll just make you think a bit differently. Adapt.
Believe it or not CS was actually super popular precisely because it Was slower than every other fps game at the time. People had gotten tired of the super fast, non-reloading, mega-unrealistic physics of your standard fps DM. Slowing the pace down means that reflex is no longer the only factor that counts. It is still a factor but the playing field is leveled where now a quick thinker has as much advantage as a fast actor.
Things never change. The exploiters are always gonna whine every time any game is updated to fix the exploitable bugs that everyone knows are there.
Okay?
I agree behind RedDragon and other vets like mcclane. What do we want? A game that tests our smarts, wits and reflexes. Lerk Biting Jetpackers in Silo required skill. Spamming spores everywhere doesnt. Well, it does take a little skill of prediction, but still. Lerk Biting was a skill that required a lot of training and practice, depending on the user. It is preposterous to hear you guys talk about how jetpacks now are balanced and stuff when you havent even played 1.1, like RedDragon, Mcclane or I have. So stop interpreting things so fast.
Bhopping was never a problem. Or Unlimited JP Fuel. Hives that were made jetpack proof by skilled gorges would take down jetpackers very fast indeed. I bet that if you guys were suddenly thrown into the 1.1i version, you would get slaughtered and would complain about the new skulk, or the onos. So please stop trying to find a reason behind the new stuff when you havent even seen its effectiveness.
With regards,
Aggelos
I've been playing fps online since doom and ns since it came out. I dont need self inflated "vets" telling me what to think. And I've seen enough over the years to understand what descriptions of gameplay match what types of gameplay. NS in its current form is still too much the "elite" kidz0rs spaz-fest that it wasnt meant to be. "bhopping was never a problem" shows that you choose not to see what is in front of most everyone's face. Ask almost any skulk out there if that jumping rabbit marine "isnt a problem"
Remember this isn't "Enter the Matrix", it's NS. If you want ultra-fast action, try Q*ake or UT. This is a FPS/RTS hybrid. The general idea (the "feel" as I believe Flayra likes to express it) behind marines is that you move as an organized team, cover the back, cover the flanks, check the corners of the room all commando-style - have you ever seen a DEVGRU with a JP flying into a plane seized by terrorists, 0wnz0r1ng all the evil Ts then high-fiveing the hostages?
What I'm trying to say is that the marines should be like a trained military unit, not like guerilla fighters. That's why the aliens have xenocide, not the marines.
If that would blow, then does alien gameplay "bite"?
I've been playing fps online since doom and ns since it came out. I dont need self inflated "vets" telling me what to think. And I've seen enough over the years to understand what descriptions of gameplay match what types of gameplay. NS in its current form is still too much the "elite" kidz0rs spaz-fest that it wasnt meant to be. "bhopping was never a problem" shows that you choose not to see what is in front of most everyone's face. Ask almost any skulk out there if that jumping rabbit marine "isnt a problem" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I respect your oppinion, but I still disagree in your beliefs. The game isnt being tailored for the vets. Its being tailored for a whole community (Clanners, Pubbers),
Forgive me if I sounded inflated, becuase quite actually I am just a decent player, nothing great. Amd for your point about bhopping, most skilled skulks dont have much a problem dealing with the bhoppers.
My problem isnt the inability to compesnate for jumping marines. I do very well as either marine or alien or any fps. My problem is the neccesity to compensate in the first place. The requirement that a skulk must be skilled enough to deal with bhopping marines means that only a portion of skulks are going to be successful skulks. I've had the same fps friends for many years and not all of them have the reflexes to compensate no matter their years of experience. NS is a tactical based game that should suit their quick minds and slower hands better than most other fps games. And yet they still walk away from it frustrated because of issues like bhopping marines and jetpacks.
I dont argue the point at all that bhopping takes skill and that countering it also takes skill. But there comes a point where X amount of skill required means too few people can enjoy the game.
For instance, no one would ever argue that the Olympic requirements are unfair. They require the highest degrees of skill and excellence. And yet how many of us can enjoy competing in the olympics?
In a game like NS you want to have as large an audience as possible playing while still retaining the highest amount of skill to play. It is a balancing act. Make things too "refelx skill based" and only a small crowd of experts will play it. Make it too dumbed down and no one of any skill will tolerate it.
I know that the current NS is already leaning too far from strategy over reflex so the only good way to go is in the opposite direction.
As in v1.04 it was fairly easy to get jp BEFORE the 2nd hive is up (or even starts building). The only time you really get ANY chance of killing thos fire-flies is when they land, and if they don't land then... well... you get the picture.
But I agree that ppl shouldn't be whining about stuff that's in v1.1, since they haven't played it yet.
Most of the ppl fail to see the picture (imho) ppl see that the jp has chanced to jump rockets (or whatever) and all go "OMG, WHAT THE H4X Jp nerf bla bla bla"
but it's not only the jp that has changed, everything changed, my beloved senc even has a shot at first place in 1.1 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
So everybody please keep in mind, not only your beloved jp/hmg rush <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> has changed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
THE ENTIRE GAME HAS CHANGED
So shut your pie hole, read the beta-forum, and wait for things to come.
For instance, no one would ever argue that the Olympic requirements are unfair. They require the highest degrees of skill and excellence. And yet how many of us can enjoy competing in the olympics?
... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well put.
What fun is there in playing a expert's game if you arn't an expert?
aye. true that the entire game has changed; mostly for the better, im sure.
as for the original question, you can take a look at the 1.1 changelog for all alterations to NS; to sum up the JP ones:
FPS no longer influences JP fuel regeneration and weapon weight now effects JP speed. Basically, no more zipping around faster-than-light with a full HMG/Pistol indefinatly. (its a good change <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I am itching to try it, alas, one month 'till it launches in Germany, and my comp. probably won't be able to handle it. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. you could tech to them very easily before aliens had enough time to set up defense
2. Marines with high fps could stay afloat for ever
a think a good way to deal with problem 1 would be to reorganize the tech tree/costs which as the changelog says, has been done. Ofcourse it doesn't tell exactly how it was changed.
a good way to deal with problem 2 would be to ged rid of the fps bug and make jetpacks perform at a set level. Thsi has also been implemented in 1.1
personally i think jetpacks should perform like they would at 50-60 fps in 1.04. From what I hear it seems like they are weaker than this. It seems like giving out jetpacks would be kinda a waste of money if the marines cant actually accomplish anything with them apart from getting to where you cant get on foot. I mean i'd rather give a marine a medpack for getting bitten once than give him a jetpack so he can get away from skulks. It seems jetpacks only use is to get away from skulks. But maybe i'll be proved wrong when 1.1 comes out.
Whoa I'm gonna be good in that case. I had this bug for a while that made my jetpacks do exactly that. I had to reinstall the game to get them to work properally.
You do <i>not</i> need to jetpack to win the game, and you do <i>not</i> need to bunny hop to kill skulks. If one gets the drop on you, good for him, he deserves that kill. Deal with it.