Guerilla Skulks!
Burncycle
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Members, NS1 Playtester
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Members, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Sun Tzu concepts</div> I've written a few marine guides, but never Kharaa, since I play marine more often.
One thing has gotten me more than anything else, and thats guerialla tactics... that can cause a marine team, even when they've locked down (phase + turrets) several locations, a huge headache.
Wolfpacks are best obviously, but that is surprisingly difficult to coordinate in public servers. Another option is to kinda go with what sun tzu said. Basically, attack where they are not, and when they get there, retreat.
I was playing in, I think it was nancy (cargo, reactor room, sat com, etc) and something happened that happens often- Marines secure several locations with turrets and phase gates. They had cargo, sat, and reactor room locked down. Most of the marines at this time was in cargo, they had just secured RR with turrets and whatnot. A lerk, as per usual, went up into the vents and took down the Turret Factory at reactor. Not surprisingly, he yelled "TF down, RR!" and our whole team went there, but by the time our team got there, the marines had already come back and took us out, rebuilt the TF, and that was that. (they didn't have a phase at this time).
On the other hand....
What if the marines, hypothetically speaking, are in cargo building up there- the same Lerk takes out the TF at reactor room and the marines rush from cargo to save RR. Meanwhile, the rest of the Kharaa team are waiting just outside cargo.... when the marines leave, they rush cargo and take out the TF there. Now the marines have two TF's down, and they must seperate to grab them both or risk losing cargo or RR. The lerk that attacked RR is long gone, and now the issue just became much more complex for the marine team. This doesn't always work obviously, but attacking a turreted area is much easier than attacking a turreted area with marine guards.
See, when they are at one location, they are not at another. Even with phasegates, its still to your advantage to Feint at one location on the map and then attack at your true target once the marines are destracted. Certainly sometimes marines leave guards, which can stop your attack cold, but its still worth a shot. Especially if the commander is a turret guy- if there are turrets the whole marine team is more likely to feel that they can leave it for a minute while they respond to the other threat, and are less likely to leave a guard. In any case, this, combined with wolfpacks, can cause a major headache.
As another example, if I'm a skulk and attack a res node alone, I obviously can't take it out before I need to recharge my attack juice! So... I'll attack it till 1) I feel that marines are coming, or 2) I run out of bite, and then I'll back off and observe while recharging. If a marine comes, I'm already gone- he may or may not have a welder, but he's not just going to guard it the whole time, so He usually leaves after a while. Then I go in, and finish off the res node. And, most importantly, thats one marine that was out of the fight for the time being. Now, I could have just stayed right there and continued to attack, but it's likely that the one marine would finish me off, and then he would mine or turret the resource tower and I wouldn't get another chance to eliminate it.
I also just love when commanders recycle when I'm attacking it; makes my life so much easier.
Just saying, as someone who plays marines often: Keep us running around, it's a big headache <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Make us react rather than act, and that just might buy you enough time to do your thing.
It is kinda just stating the obvious, I know, and no doubt this has been mentioned before, but I thought I'd just reiterate it. Plus, now I can say I've written some helpful hints for both teams instead of just the marines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
One thing has gotten me more than anything else, and thats guerialla tactics... that can cause a marine team, even when they've locked down (phase + turrets) several locations, a huge headache.
Wolfpacks are best obviously, but that is surprisingly difficult to coordinate in public servers. Another option is to kinda go with what sun tzu said. Basically, attack where they are not, and when they get there, retreat.
I was playing in, I think it was nancy (cargo, reactor room, sat com, etc) and something happened that happens often- Marines secure several locations with turrets and phase gates. They had cargo, sat, and reactor room locked down. Most of the marines at this time was in cargo, they had just secured RR with turrets and whatnot. A lerk, as per usual, went up into the vents and took down the Turret Factory at reactor. Not surprisingly, he yelled "TF down, RR!" and our whole team went there, but by the time our team got there, the marines had already come back and took us out, rebuilt the TF, and that was that. (they didn't have a phase at this time).
On the other hand....
What if the marines, hypothetically speaking, are in cargo building up there- the same Lerk takes out the TF at reactor room and the marines rush from cargo to save RR. Meanwhile, the rest of the Kharaa team are waiting just outside cargo.... when the marines leave, they rush cargo and take out the TF there. Now the marines have two TF's down, and they must seperate to grab them both or risk losing cargo or RR. The lerk that attacked RR is long gone, and now the issue just became much more complex for the marine team. This doesn't always work obviously, but attacking a turreted area is much easier than attacking a turreted area with marine guards.
See, when they are at one location, they are not at another. Even with phasegates, its still to your advantage to Feint at one location on the map and then attack at your true target once the marines are destracted. Certainly sometimes marines leave guards, which can stop your attack cold, but its still worth a shot. Especially if the commander is a turret guy- if there are turrets the whole marine team is more likely to feel that they can leave it for a minute while they respond to the other threat, and are less likely to leave a guard. In any case, this, combined with wolfpacks, can cause a major headache.
As another example, if I'm a skulk and attack a res node alone, I obviously can't take it out before I need to recharge my attack juice! So... I'll attack it till 1) I feel that marines are coming, or 2) I run out of bite, and then I'll back off and observe while recharging. If a marine comes, I'm already gone- he may or may not have a welder, but he's not just going to guard it the whole time, so He usually leaves after a while. Then I go in, and finish off the res node. And, most importantly, thats one marine that was out of the fight for the time being. Now, I could have just stayed right there and continued to attack, but it's likely that the one marine would finish me off, and then he would mine or turret the resource tower and I wouldn't get another chance to eliminate it.
I also just love when commanders recycle when I'm attacking it; makes my life so much easier.
Just saying, as someone who plays marines often: Keep us running around, it's a big headache <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Make us react rather than act, and that just might buy you enough time to do your thing.
It is kinda just stating the obvious, I know, and no doubt this has been mentioned before, but I thought I'd just reiterate it. Plus, now I can say I've written some helpful hints for both teams instead of just the marines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
They don't always have phase gates, and this can be done in any location for any target not nessisarily a big target that is fully phased/turreted- you don't put phase gates next to each res node do you?
In most servers, it's 50/50 that the marines will be responsive enough even with phase gates. I've had to say "get through the #*&$ phase for the 4th time!" enough that I might has well have binded it to a key <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Regardless, they're being kept busy responding to you, which means your gorge has more time.
Hit and run and attacking while they're gone and retreating when they get back is a tactic that works. Knowing when and where to do this is more difficult.
Not true. Lure away the marines as stated above and then when the wolfpacks attack make the gate the number one priority. If 3 or 4 skulks are eating on the gate at the same time then at most 2 marines will have time to get thruw.
I'm gonna try this next time I get a chance. Escpecially the part about the RT since you can do that on your own. Sounds like good plan though
That sounds like an ace tactic!
and if there isnt like 30 turrets in the room, a regen/cara with celerity skulk can do quite a bit of damage.. if there is to many turrets, and well placed to go on the tf, then you take down 2-3 guns.. just move QUICK and but the guns with 2-4 bites every run.. hit all 3 on one side say, if you get low health, run to a hive/gorge/d chambers to heal up, or behind a block if you have regen..simple tactic.. a skulk can take out several turrets and tf with cara or regen and celerity
I think you've hit upon why all these tactics work.
Marine recon and strategy are all filtered through one person. If you overwhelm that person, the marine team becomes unable to act effectively. That's why, when the marines are on the offensive, you can do damn near anything for the next 3-4 minutes. The commander is too busy spamming health and trying to reinforce the attack.
Currently, the monotony of marine strategy makes this hard to exploit, though. It's hard to overwhelm someone who's watching two RTs and teching to JP/HMG. However I suspect, with 1.1, the turtle-n-tech strategy will go back out of style, and the land-grab-and-defend strategy will make a comeback.
Marines will get electrified RTs in 1.1, then they will jsut send out rambos with mines to build and mine, later electrify RTs...they will stay in base until they have lvl 3 wpn, armr and HMGs/HA all of them and go kill your pityfull 3 hives in a rain of health
I did this myself one game when we were really getting pooped on by the marines. Kept away the marines (at least one HA) long enough to take down the PG and reclaim the hive. Then the server crashed just when we were getting out act together <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) Use carapace instead of regeneration as a skulk. 9 bullets kills you without cara (of level 0 guns), 19 bullets with cara (level3 cara, level 0 guns). You can fire 9 bullets faster than one regen click, so regen really won't help. I take the argument about using it to distract turrets, but I argue that you'd be better off simply circling the turrets with your carapaced body. They go down VERY quickly indeed, allowing you to clear a blind side on the TF (ie rush in, take down phase gate FIRST, take one turret at the back of TF, then take TF then everything else)
2) if you still have 2 hives, lerk to umbra the turret factory and get the skulks to take it out with you. If you haven't got or had two hives, things are more tricky with only 1 upgrade.
3) Marine resource towers provide excellent skulk cover. Continue eating the res node, even when your energy is all out, and make sure you strafe around it to keep the advancing marine(s) BEHIND the structure from you. If they get too close, leave the structure and bite their faces off, they'll be surprised usually <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
If the marines come at you from different angles, then you've probably had it, so I tent to circle strafe until one gets close enough to take a few bites at him. If they do that, you're back down to one angle of fire and can hide behind the res tower again. Once it goes down, so do you, but that's hardly a problem <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
4) Finally, some (new) marines try to shoot you behind res towers, using up all the ammo of both guns. Stop eating the res tower, amble up to them with impunity (they have to reload or knife you), and bite their heads off <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Then you can go back to your tasty res node.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And people ask how to break a 2-hive lockdown... Obviously it relies on some luck, stupidity, etc, but still... It should be quite obvious.