ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
One thing to look at is... you have skulk to do the biting. They're fast, they're bites are ever so slightly more powerful, and they don't get fleas... err never mind on that last one. Regardless, Lerk tatics as I said before are long range, and support. Say if you will the sniper of the group. I can see people saying now that they fly faster than skulks can run so they can zoom into and bite a marine. Well, you can still shoot them from afar or while flying. On a side note, I tend to only see Lerk's biting while walking up to a marine though, I don't see them flying in to bite.
<!--QuoteBegin--[ReD]Dean+May 14 2003, 03:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([ReD]Dean @ May 14 2003, 03:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok here is the topic locker...and my last post for a while because I am getting frustrated explaining this to everyone.
Too sum it all up:
Bite Lerks = dedicated skilled lerks who devote their time into mastering this hard yet efficient skill.
Spike Lerks = Nubs. It’s just like having a gun...way too much of this in all FPS. The only reason they use this is because they cannot use bite. They don't dedicate enough time into the harder aspect of the lerk. Shame on you people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> NS is not supposed to be a skill game, it's supposed to be a tactics and teamwork game. The more specific use of the lerk will increase those aspects.
I see whats wrong, i so need to relearn c++ <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I bet your glad i am not programing NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, the problem with the lerk tactic that I see is they have no main attack. I don't know how they can be used effectively except for umbraing fades, while the fades do all the fun work. Lerks just get to sit in the corner and watch. I am not sure how that encourages people to play as lerks. I am pretty sure people would play the v1.04 lerk over the v1.1 lerk. The v1.04 lerk was perfectly balanced by itself. It had umbra which is what this lerk has(they are both the 2nd hive ability) so that rules out the skulk coming along because if u can't umbra the skulk, then whats the point of the lerk. You can tease the marine with spikes but then again, flayra lowered the damage of spikes making them a lot weaker. Spores damage has been GREATLY reduced now and I am not sure how someone could effectively continuously spore someone until they die(You would just see the guy rush the lerk and kill him before the spore did that much damage and the person would have to stay in the spore for it to do damage). The primal scream is great for the lerk but it is a 3rd hive ability so it is almost useless unless in playing long games.
I'd rather spores would be replaced then bite. That's just my opinion. My favourite species will never be the same... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Unknownhero, the problem that I was stating with that is that the lerk needs 3 hives for primal scream to work! Usually when aliens have 3 hives, the game is over. Unless some strats have really changed in v1.1, I don't think that will change.
antifreezeThe guy with the goods!Join Date: 2003-05-12Member: 16232Members, Constellation
Personally the new lerk flight changes couldbe interesting. I would like to see it so tha it performes normally until the player holds down the fly key and starts gliding. At this point i think it would be good if the lerk started flying like a glider. So the lerk slowly slows down on level flight, in a dive speeds up, and climbing slows down. And as for control changes in glideing mode you push the mouse left you bank left, push right and you bank right. while baked pushing the muse foward or back turns you, and when flying horizontal pulling up or down on the mouse decides if you dive or climb. This would look good if a lerk caming swooping down picking up speed and is able to fly down a corridor at a hell of a pace. Or a few lerks flying high above a map circling marines like scavenger birds. As for the idea of the 1.1 lerk been a support creature i fully agree. Umbra and primal scream are a help to your own team in there attacking. The spores will slow an enemy advance down a corridor for a short while, but with the power of the spores reduce isnt enough to take out large enemy squads. And as for spikes, there good as a last resort defence attack, but not for assaulting.
<!--QuoteBegin--Freak83+May 14 2003, 03:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freak83 @ May 14 2003, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Lerk is the least used alien in 1.0. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LIES! :s, I love lerk, lerk is SEVERILY overpowered at the moment (v 1.04), take carapace at level 3 he has 75 armour with an unbelievable absorb, 1 hive lerk quite literarly laughs at those unupgraded marines with his spikes as they fall to the gorund in throngs. 2 hive lerks have umbra to compliment thier carapace, and probably a movement chamber has been made, take adren to keep your spikes flying, and keep your bite going, i have seen many times when a single lerk takes out 3 - 4 Heavy Armour HMGers with umbra and carapace, thats 150 - 200 res worth of marins for one lowly 37 res spent on an alien. Hence my view on its over powered ness. Fade doesnt get a look in.
ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+May 14 2003, 06:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ May 14 2003, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Freak83+May 14 2003, 03:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freak83 @ May 14 2003, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Lerk is the least used alien in 1.0. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LIES! :s, I love lerk, lerk is SEVERILY overpowered at the moment (v 1.04), take carapace at level 3 he has 75 armour with an unbelievable absorb, 1 hive lerk quite literarly laughs at those unupgraded marines with his spikes as they fall to the gorund in throngs. 2 hive lerks have umbra to compliment thier carapace, and probably a movement chamber has been made, take adren to keep your spikes flying, and keep your bite going, i have seen many times when a single lerk takes out 3 - 4 Heavy Armour HMGers with umbra and carapace, thats 150 - 200 res worth of marins for one lowly 37 res spent on an alien. Hence my view on its over powered ness. Fade doesnt get a look in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not saying the Lerk isn't used often. But with one hive what do you see most of? Skulks, two hives? Skulks and Fades. 3 hives, Gorge, Lerks, Fades, Onos. There's maybe 3 Lerks at once if it's a large game before three hives. But really, you may use Lerk often but that doesn't mean the rest of the NS population does.
If you guys actually played with the v1.04 lerk and used bite more often then spikes, you have have a hell of a time even if u sucked. Thats the only reason I got good with lerk, I just loved the class and I thought it was the most fun. So before you take something away, you should at least try it out. We all know that flayra made the lerk like this for teamwork but real teamwork isn't fun if you force it on people, people have to want to play with teamwork, not the other way around.
<!--QuoteBegin--Freak83+May 14 2003, 07:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Freak83 @ May 14 2003, 07:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm not saying the Lerk isn't used often. But with one hive what do you see most of? Skulks, two hives? Skulks and Fades. 3 hives, Gorge, Lerks, Fades, Onos. There's maybe 3 Lerks at once if it's a large game before three hives. But really, you may use Lerk often but that doesn't mean the rest of the NS population does. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, I see lerks all the time at hive 1. Strangely, there are sometimes less lerks at hive 2 than there are at hive 1 (just to combat the jp'ers).
Ahhhhh the good ol spike shoot, run, hide behind a corner, listen for mariens to think theyre gonna get ya and boom, umbra/ bite.. pure pwnage <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> too bad i wont b able to do this in 1.1 nemore D: D: D: D: D:
Has anyone forgotten that spore is available at hive 1 ?
I just got out of a PT game and was tremendously satisfied with the Lerks new role.
I <i>really</i> wished you'd go against yourselves on this one and trust us. At least trust me. I'm trying to make sure that it can hold its own in a close combat range situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+May 14 2003, 08:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ May 14 2003, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Has anyone forgotten that spore is available at hive 1 ?
I just got out of a PT game and was tremendously satisfied with the Lerks new role.
I <i>really</i> wished you'd go against yourselves on this one and trust us. At least trust me. I'm trying to make sure that it can hold its own in a close combat range situation.
Please ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well im not satified with the lerks new role, and i'm not gonna let u or anyone else take this game away from me. Seems like all the 'playtesters' say they like the 1.1 lerk for some reason <span style='color:white'>Cut it.</span> and anyone who put time into the lerk in 1.0x hates it. This change will cause so much problems and I see nothing good coming out of it. In pubs you wont see the 1.1 lerks and in matches taking bite out only weakened the supporting role of the lerk. The lerk has always been support, so please stop saying this new one is more supportive....becuase it isn't.
Heh, Dean = lerk lover. Look at his sig <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
you know i never selected Dean as a part of the vets squad with me? no he mysteriously appeared one day in the vet forums, seems a certain dev liked his lerking from way back when <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> (no names charlie ) hehe his only part in the vet testing is lerk <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
so of course hes going to **** <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah, not sure why everyone wants the lerk to have no bite when most of them never spend a full game playing as a lerk. If you guys want us to agree with you then you have to at least play the v1.04 lerk and see why we all love it the way it is. You may be scared off because the flying controls are a little hard to master and first but if you practiced a little, like all the other hardcore lerks out there, you will definately see the fun side of lerk biting and you will most likely agree with us.
Anyway, I'd like to note that three hives aren't the game ender they were in 1.0x. They're cheaper, thus built more often, but also less valuable than before. Second, judging the fun of a class you have effectively never played is in every case risky - so please wait for the result before tearing each other to shreds over how great / sucky the new Lerk is going to be.
Nemisis, the thing is once NS 1.1 is released with the new lerk changes, we will have to wait a long time before the next patch adds bite back (and that assuming it would be coming back).
I'm really liking the sound of the changes being made to the lerk. Although I will miss being able eat the marine, the early spores and fired umbra seem too good to pass up. The lerk seemed to lack something in the long range category, and while spike was good the ability to spore seems to be a better harassment tool. You only need to expose yourself a little to pop out and shoot it, but it hangs around after you're gone and either limits marine movement, softens up the marines, or makes the commander spend his resources constantly medpacking his marines.
The long range umbra makes sense, since the lerk probably will be staying away from combat. It also makes the umbra ability less difficult to apply. Instead of having to fly to the marines to umbra, you can apply it to the precise best point (which can be seen best from a distance). This also should make it easier to protect an area with umbra, as you will not need to fly to each area that needs to be protected, and you can do all of this while sticking near to a movement chamber to regenerate energy.
Primal Scream makes more sense to add to the support class than to the Onos. It seems a bit strange for such a little guy to let out such a tremendous scream, but I guess a scream is acceptable for a bird (as opposed to a roar). If I have a bird that I can hear across the house, and through two closed doors, that is the size of my hand, a lerk sized bird should probably let out enough of a scream <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the people who have spent a long time mastering the close combat lerk, I'm sorry that this seems to be leaving Natural Selection due to the removal of the bite ability. While it is immensely satisfying and hard won skill to have mastered, many things will be changing in 1.1. We will all have to change old habits, master new abilities, and just in general learn to play differently. Make sure your dissent registers with the people making the game. After you have done so, all you can do is wait. In the end the guys who make the game will decide what is best for it. If they still decide to make the change, there was nothing you could have done to stop it. Apparently people have been getting pretty rowdy about this, but you're not going to get what you want that way. If having the lerk included with bite really is that much better, it will be fixed. Even if it takes until the next patch.
In order for change to occur, things that people like must go. In order to evolve, some things must die. I like the way the new lerk looks, but only time will really tell which is better for the good of the game.
The only one I have seen complaining on this entire forum is Dean. Pls take his comments for what they are, the opinion of one quite vocal dude.
On with the new LERK!!
(hope this doesn't get the topic locked, just trying to balance a bit <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Howabout trying out <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=32068' target='_blank'>this idea</a>? It would please close-combat lovers, marines and longer range lerk supporters <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Whilst I support the concept of Bite being returned to the Lerk because of it's popularity, I'm amused to note that the most vociferous recidivist is someone who took a totally negative attitude from the start and who I have never seen on the playtest servers.
Comments
if (kharaa.getFades() == true) {
kharaa.win++;
}
}
kharaa.lose++;
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, you missed the else. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->While (Marines.havejetpack() == false) {
if (kharaa.getFades() == true) {
kharaa.win++;
}else{
kharaa.lose++;
}
}
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I didn't. Look at the Code closely please.
Too sum it all up:
Bite Lerks = dedicated skilled lerks who devote their time into mastering this hard yet efficient skill.
Spike Lerks = Nubs. It’s just like having a gun...way too much of this in all FPS. The only reason they use this is because they cannot use bite. They don't dedicate enough time into the harder aspect of the lerk. Shame on you people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS is not supposed to be a skill game, it's supposed to be a tactics and teamwork game. The more specific use of the lerk will increase those aspects.
I bet your glad i am not programing NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lerk doesn't need bite, its got primal scream which is way better than bite.
As for the idea of the 1.1 lerk been a support creature i fully agree. Umbra and primal scream are a help to your own team in there attacking. The spores will slow an enemy advance down a corridor for a short while, but with the power of the spores reduce isnt enough to take out large enemy squads. And as for spikes, there good as a last resort defence attack, but not for assaulting.
LIES! :s, I love lerk, lerk is SEVERILY overpowered at the moment (v 1.04), take carapace at level 3 he has 75 armour with an unbelievable absorb, 1 hive lerk quite literarly laughs at those unupgraded marines with his spikes as they fall to the gorund in throngs. 2 hive lerks have umbra to compliment thier carapace, and probably a movement chamber has been made, take adren to keep your spikes flying, and keep your bite going, i have seen many times when a single lerk takes out 3 - 4 Heavy Armour HMGers with umbra and carapace, thats 150 - 200 res worth of marins for one lowly 37 res spent on an alien. Hence my view on its over powered ness. Fade doesnt get a look in.
LIES! :s, I love lerk, lerk is SEVERILY overpowered at the moment (v 1.04), take carapace at level 3 he has 75 armour with an unbelievable absorb, 1 hive lerk quite literarly laughs at those unupgraded marines with his spikes as they fall to the gorund in throngs. 2 hive lerks have umbra to compliment thier carapace, and probably a movement chamber has been made, take adren to keep your spikes flying, and keep your bite going, i have seen many times when a single lerk takes out 3 - 4 Heavy Armour HMGers with umbra and carapace, thats 150 - 200 res worth of marins for one lowly 37 res spent on an alien. Hence my view on its over powered ness. Fade doesnt get a look in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not saying the Lerk isn't used often. But with one hive what do you see most of? Skulks, two hives? Skulks and Fades. 3 hives, Gorge, Lerks, Fades, Onos. There's maybe 3 Lerks at once if it's a large game before three hives. But really, you may use Lerk often but that doesn't mean the rest of the NS population does.
Uh, I see lerks all the time at hive 1. Strangely, there are sometimes less lerks at hive 2 than there are at hive 1 (just to combat the jp'ers).
I just got out of a PT game and was tremendously satisfied with the Lerks new role.
I <i>really</i> wished you'd go against yourselves on this one and trust us. At least trust me. I'm trying to make sure that it can hold its own in a close combat range situation.
Please ?
if (kharaa.getFades() == true) {
kharaa.win++;
}
}
kharaa.lose++;
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, you missed the else. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->While (Marines.havejetpack() == false) {
if (kharaa.getFades() == true) {
kharaa.win++;
}else{
kharaa.lose++;
}
}
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you know how to code very well.
I just got out of a PT game and was tremendously satisfied with the Lerks new role.
I <i>really</i> wished you'd go against yourselves on this one and trust us. At least trust me. I'm trying to make sure that it can hold its own in a close combat range situation.
Please ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well im not satified with the lerks new role, and i'm not gonna let u or anyone else take this game away from me. Seems like all the 'playtesters' say they like the 1.1 lerk for some reason <span style='color:white'>Cut it.</span> and anyone who put time into the lerk in 1.0x hates it. This change will cause so much problems and I see nothing good coming out of it. In pubs you wont see the 1.1 lerks and in matches taking bite out only weakened the supporting role of the lerk. The lerk has always been support, so please stop saying this new one is more supportive....becuase it isn't.
so of course hes going to **** <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, I'd like to note that three hives aren't the game ender they were in 1.0x. They're cheaper, thus built more often, but also less valuable than before.
Second, judging the fun of a class you have effectively never played is in every case risky - so please wait for the result before tearing each other to shreds over how great / sucky the new Lerk is going to be.
The long range umbra makes sense, since the lerk probably will be staying away from combat. It also makes the umbra ability less difficult to apply. Instead of having to fly to the marines to umbra, you can apply it to the precise best point (which can be seen best from a distance). This also should make it easier to protect an area with umbra, as you will not need to fly to each area that needs to be protected, and you can do all of this while sticking near to a movement chamber to regenerate energy.
Primal Scream makes more sense to add to the support class than to the Onos. It seems a bit strange for such a little guy to let out such a tremendous scream, but I guess a scream is acceptable for a bird (as opposed to a roar). If I have a bird that I can hear across the house, and through two closed doors, that is the size of my hand, a lerk sized bird should probably let out enough of a scream <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the people who have spent a long time mastering the close combat lerk, I'm sorry that this seems to be leaving Natural Selection due to the removal of the bite ability. While it is immensely satisfying and hard won skill to have mastered, many things will be changing in 1.1. We will all have to change old habits, master new abilities, and just in general learn to play differently. Make sure your dissent registers with the people making the game. After you have done so, all you can do is wait. In the end the guys who make the game will decide what is best for it. If they still decide to make the change, there was nothing you could have done to stop it. Apparently people have been getting pretty rowdy about this, but you're not going to get what you want that way. If having the lerk included with bite really is that much better, it will be fixed. Even if it takes until the next patch.
In order for change to occur, things that people like must go. In order to evolve, some things must die. I like the way the new lerk looks, but only time will really tell which is better for the good of the game.
is Dean. Pls take his comments for what they are, the opinion
of one quite vocal dude.
On with the new LERK!!
(hope this doesn't get the topic locked, just trying to balance a bit <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
GG open minded PT approach.