lol XenoMorF, i think you should quit while you are ahead. 1.04 is getting a little dull yes, but why mention it when it is clear to see that 1.1 is being worked on very hard, and will be released soon. Please take note that there are still quiet a few things in 1.1 that havent been mentioned in great detail, in-fact, i expect the 1.1 changelist to be quite longer than the one posted when MonsE comes back and starts his "1.1 PR Spammage"
Also, to say that HL2 will just be based on graphics is.well, stupid. i cant quiet imagine how you came to this conclusion, but i assure you that Valve will make HL2 the best, and most moddable FPS since...well...HL1. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
new maps, maybe some new game modes (marine v marine etc.) would certainly kick the life back into it. I think people still like NS, but it can be stressful, and playing the same scenario over and over again makes you want to throw up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the diversity of tactics is utter rubbish , there is no such thing.. clans will find the best way and stick to it --- Its impossible to have more then 1 tactic that works 100% all the time , but there will be some that are close enough <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the NS team is trying to do, and what you don't seem to have grasped, is create a situation where differant paths to victory are possible. Right now these are limited; that is true. 1.1 will aim to correct this by for example making currently underused alien upgrades viable. Tactics will likely change based around what the other team is using. Marines are tech rushing? Get two more ppl to go gorge and throw down extra res towers for fast fades and oni. Aliens doing def first? Marines grab wpn upgrades. Aliens res rushing? Get heavy armour to take on fades and oni. Thats a few very limited examples of what 1.1 may bring. The true goal here will obviously be to avoid the "one strat better than all others strat". This IS achieveable; look back to Starcraft for instance. I think you're being a little too shallow minded, and also assuming that the 1.04 uber tactics will not be addressed in 1.1. Namely, jetpacks right now are an uber strat because the aliens have no 1 hive counter. 2 hive lockdowns are an uber strat because 1 hive aliens can't break them. D-M-S is the uber alien strat not because carapace is so essential but because the mov and sens techs basically suck in comparison to the def techs. 1.1 is addressing ALL of these issues, and if a new uber strat comes out of 1.1, well then 1.2 will address it. You simply can't expect for the developers, no matter how good they are, to achieve perfect balance with a couple of server side patches. Again, the Starcraft example: it took over 9 client patches for the game to be extreamly balanced; NS may very well take the same (although it only has 2 races to balance). Give the NS team some time and understand the task they have to undertake.
<!--QuoteBegin--XenoMorF+May 10 2003, 11:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XenoMorF @ May 10 2003, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's come to my attention that people just are bored and NS is getting less n less players per day, its not so much "want to play ns anyone?" its more of "want to play dod" or some really odd (not so good mods)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think a combination of limited viable tactics and an often overly-critical/hostile player base does not help at all. After a significant break (of about a month and a half) I returned only to witness some of the worst habitual whiners ever. "OMG my team sucks....don't go lerk !....lerk is a bad idea... useless marines..." etc.
And I'm not talking about the odd complaint here and there: this is continual bitching and bemoaning. Quite honestly this has prompted me to delete NS. I will however try out 1.1, and hopefully find some decent servers.
I'm sorry to say this guys (and I know other Mods have plenty of idiots too) but the NS community that I've come across (in game) for the most part has not been any better than the "infamous" CS community. I'd be curious to know just how much bandwith the average NS game consumes in terms of hostile voice and text messages. Talk about a waste of resources.
This saddens me deeply because NS has alot of potential... and I'd hate to see it lose out because of llammary at its finest.
<!--QuoteBegin--Wheeee+May 10 2003, 12:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ May 10 2003, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My opinion is that it's only boring if you think it's boring, and get locked into a mindset. Sure, clanners may have already tried everything under the sun, but those tactics are under a different set of rules than pub play. I enjoy NS now as much as I did when I started playing, because I don't usually take the games very seriously (note the alias) and am always trying new stuff (or revising stuff that didn't quite work the last time). Perhaps it's YOU who needs to change, not the game.
As for 1.1, I agree - it will r0x0r j00r b0x0rz. Balance tweaks are always nice, but the gameplay that is in 1.04 is still pretty awesome.
*edit* this applies to pubs only, not clanplay - i have no experience in that arena, and so I can't really say anything about it *edit* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks man, good way of putting it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Moon+May 10 2003, 07:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moon @ May 10 2003, 07:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [QUOTE=XenoMorF,May 10 2003, 11:45 AM] I'm sorry to say this guys (and I know other Mods have plenty of idiots too) but the NS community that I've come across (in game) for the most part has not been any better than the "infamous" CS community. I'd be curious to know just how much bandwith the average NS game consumes in terms of hostile voice and text messages. Talk about a waste of resources.
This saddens me deeply because NS has alot of potential... and I'd hate to see it lose out because of llammary at its finest. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, a big bunch of apples always contains some rotten ones. And considering NS has a big community it also has a good percentage of "rottens ones"...
But that's with all the multipalyer games. They're just as good as the people are.
I don't think it is boring at the moment, last couple of days some great tactics for the aliens have evolved on my std server. A week or so ago I would perhaps have agreed with you, since Marines were winning every game and it was extremely predictable sometimes, but now I will have to say:
<b>The game is not boring, the players might be.</b>
And to be quite honest, it sounds like you are pretty boring. "No new tactics", "always the same". Yeah? Why don't you make it different then? The reson it gets predictable is that people in general are dimwitted, unimaginative and boring. They find one thing that work and then repeat it ad nauseum, and if they lose continuously their reaction isn't "What can I do/change about this?" but instead "Woe is me! The game/world is unfair!! Somebody fix it!". And don't start whining that the game is "broken" and that for example JP/HMG rush is unstoppable, we've seen it, learned to beat it and moved on.
Shesh, people are such victims. If people like you actually tried to be a bit creative instead, it wouldn't get boring. Take responsibility for your own fun for crying out loud. This is definetely a client-side problem more then anything. If 1.1 fixes some unbalances and add some fun stuff, great, that's not going to take away the whining though, you'll be back, crying about something, no matter what they do, that's just the way people are I guess.
Summary: - Grow up and take responsibility (yeah, I know, whining is so much easier) - Use your imagination/creativity, only you make the game boring - If you absolutely can't do anything of the above, just go away, don't stick around just to annoy those that can.
Your very very right... i used to be HUGE into NS until 2 things, 1st is was the downfall of Ponchos Tavern Server which was the only server i played in because the people were friendly and i seemed to be kindve popular in there =p and also it was finding out of ns 1.1 actually i got even more into ns because of it. but as months went on and the same old things going on, servers getting piled up with more losers / cs veterans <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> andthe same old strats, out of 10 games 8 of them involved either a jp/ hmg rush or a seige attack.the other 2 consisted of a skulk rush gone wrong and them countering it by sitting in our hive blasting any1 who spawned and the other 1 was jsut the plain n simple hmg/ha attacks.ive lost intrest in NS and moved on like most players to dod 1.0 i hope 1.1 actually keeps my intrest in NS <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+May 10 2003, 02:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ May 10 2003, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think it is boring at the moement, last couple of days some great tactics for the aliens have evolved on my std server. A week or so ago I would perhaps have agreed with you, sine Marines were winning every game and it was extremely predictable sometimes, but now I will have to say:
<b>The game is not boring, the players might be.</b>
And to be quite honest, it sounds like you are pretty boring. "No new tactics", "always the same". Yeah? Why don't you make it different then? The reson it gets predictable is that people in general are dimwitted, unimaginative and boring. They find one thing that work and then repeat it ad nauseum, and if they lose continuously their reaction isn't "What can I do/change about this?" but instead "Woe is me! The game/world is unfair!! Somebody fix it!". And don't start whining that the game is "broken" and that for example JP/HMG rush is unstoppable, we've seen it, learned to beat it and moved on.
Shesh, people are such victims. If people like you actually tried to be a bit creative instead, it wouldn't get boring. Take responsibility for your own fun for crying out loud. This is definetely a client-side problem more then anything. If 1.1 fixes some unbalances and add some fun stuff, great, that's not going to take away the whining though, you'll be back, crying about something, no matter what they do, that's just the way people are I guess.
Summary: - Grow up and take responsibility (yeah, I know, whining is so much easier) - Use your imagination/creativity, only you make the game boring - If you absolutely can't do anything of the above, just go away, don't stick around just to annoy those that can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Brilliantly spoken.
Now, for those of you who <i>are</i> interested in driving the creativity and open-mindedness required to keep any "old" game fun, I would like to extend a warm invitation to you.
I play NS exclusively on one of the many servers (spanning several game titles) that is part of something called Tactical Gamer. This is a community of mature players who respect each other when they play and respect each others' efforts when the game is over, regardless of who won and who lost. Many of us that play there play there exclusively. It's a very special server with very special people.
I bring this up now only because we have the solution to the problem presented in this thread: creativity and maturity. These are the two characteristics required to drive the satisfaction of an aging game (however you define "aging"). You can't give me a strategy in this game that can't be countered. The fact is, if the marines brought HMG rush on your hive, and it cost you the game, you did something wrong. Are the marines cheap for doing that? Who cares. The point is, it CAN be countered. At Tactical Gamer, we challenge each other with new strategies ALL THE TIME. And it may take the rest of us time, but we WILL LEARN how to counter them effectively.
Do you know what this sort of attitude spawns? Massive, unparalled competition. And with the right outlook, massive competition spawns massive enjoyment.
We have a few house rules about blocking doors and elevators, etc, but for the most part, any strategy is fair game. However, we try hard to enjoy the game, sometimes at the cost of winning it. Ask yourself which you prefer: winning after 12 minutes with JP/HMG, or losing after 65 minutes of umbra, acid rockets, GLs, HA, heal spray, webs, spikes, and xenocide? If you place yourself in the latter group and you're frustrated with too many of the former, consider yourself invited to join us at Tactical Gamer: Natural Selection.
208.144.248.101:27015
I have no idea where you guys have played before. I don't even know you guys. Despite that, I can promise you that you <i>will</i> consider this server one of the finest teamplay-oriented servers available online if you play there for two weeks. I'm not claiming it's the only server you should play on.. that's for you to decide. However, it IS the only server *I* play on. Sometimes you have to wait in line to join, but it's worth the wait, believe me. And rumor has it that we'll be expanding to two NS servers soon.
I'm there any time I'm playing NS, and I sure do hope to see some of you there soon. You'll be glad you gave it a chance. If you can't play now, check out <a href='http://tacticalgamer.com' target='_blank'>http://tacticalgamer.com</a>.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Elucid+May 10 2003, 01:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Elucid @ May 10 2003, 01:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Aaron+May 10 2003, 12:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aaron @ May 10 2003, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Didn't your mother teach you, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything"?
Feh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If your talking about me you shoud refrain what you are saying, people are putting down one of the best hl mods besides cs probally cause I dont like cs..Im just defending the people who made this game possible, ect so maybe you should think about what your saying buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didnt' mean you. That was directed at xenomorph, and just people who have nothing better to do than complain about a free game that people put their hard work into.
i have got beter things to do, and thats what i was doing after and before i posted this...
and i dont spend all day complaining, i was just saying that NS v1.04 looks to be dieing due to lack of interest, if u cant see that or face that then please, leave me alone <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Elucid+May 10 2003, 01:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Elucid @ May 10 2003, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Games only get boring to the ones who play it 24/7 so those people that are complaining about it must have NO life at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I play maybe 1-2 hrs a day and I have gotten kinda bored with it. The old JP rush and D/M/S has gotten incredibly boring. It happens on most all servers I join. And to clear up some confusion, I have a wife and a 9 month old son so I probably have quite a great life outside of computer games. Also I am a web master for a hospital making pretty good money so the 'have no life' statement doesnt particularly apply to me.
But I have to say I believe 1.1 will be pretty awesome. I am more anxious of it than any other release of any other mod.
Personally i dont get bored.. in NS.. i have play since 1.0 and i still can play every day many hours and not getting bored.. when you playing DoD over 100 matches just running on same way and shooting that is boring .. but NS always coming something new..
<!--QuoteBegin--CutterJoe+May 10 2003, 07:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CutterJoe @ May 10 2003, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The old JP rush... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah yes, the old JP rush <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's the one where Marines fly into the hive and get shot down by OC's/Lerks/Healspray and chewed/parasited by skulks while gorges and D chambers heal the hive. This one usually ends with Aliens going Onos just to annoy the marines, right? Don't see how that could be boring.
Or do you mean the one where the whole alien team is spread out all over the map while a single JP:er is allowed to take down the undefended hive? I'm tired of that one too, so I usually don't play on servers where Aliens allow that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think it is boring at the moment, last couple of days some great tactics for the aliens have evolved on my std server. A week or so ago I would perhaps have agreed with you, since Marines were winning every game and it was extremely predictable sometimes, but now I will have to say:
The game is not boring, the players might be.
And to be quite honest, it sounds like you are pretty boring. "No new tactics", "always the same". Yeah? Why don't you make it different then? The reson it gets predictable is that people in general are dimwitted, unimaginative and boring. They find one thing that work and then repeat it ad nauseum, and if they lose continuously their reaction isn't "What can I do/change about this?" but instead "Woe is me! The game/world is unfair!! Somebody fix it!". And don't start whining that the game is "broken" and that for example JP/HMG rush is unstoppable, we've seen it, learned to beat it and moved on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't preach about being "creative" unless you gave some examples. Chances are it's been done before.
Aliens, on Tanith, we harass Marines until we get lvl3 Cara, then, as soon as people hit 33 res they lerk up. We have 4 Gorges and 5 Lerks hit Marine base and clear it out, move on to Reacor, clear it, Marines have relocated to Cargo, 2 Lerks and a Gorge dies but we clear that. Win. A non-regular Marine was quoted saying:
"That's the n00best tactic I have ever seen work"
A prime example of someone who thinks any deviation from the norm is bad.
Nancy is currently known as ns:rush_to_messhall or ns_marines_always_win. Mainly after we (well I, but I regret it) started foregoing base (2 IP's only) and putting an Armory up in Mess Hall, that was basically the key to just making that into "marines always win". We've had one counter (almost) beat it, with refinement it probably will.
A couple of off-the-bat gorge rushes and variations have been tried, some successful, mostly failed. I suggest you just jump on the server for yourself. PM me if you want the IP.
Current Marine trend I would say is resource denial. Someone COM:ed today and dropped 2 IP's and an OBS, and got the (funny, I though).. "ohh... I feel like I am playing 1.03". Cargo relocation seems to be the norm on other servers I have played on, that has about a 90% fail ratio since everyone is ready for it and know how to counter it, so it is basically never done anymore. We still have people join and go "You have to do this!" or "You have to relocate here, n00b!" or whatever, they suually just get a "Shush, the COM knows what he is doing."
Ps. Being creative has nothing to do with whether it has been "done before" or not, it is a mindset or mental quality. The first thing that people learn on "how to be cool" is to act blasé, and say "it's been done before". Doesn't mean anything.
Pps. I invented the observatory rush!! Its objective is to build 8-12 observatories inside the Hive and keep them on constant distress to confuse the aliens while a marine knifes the hive, I admit it may be a bit risky, but I got it to work once!
I think the main problem with disinterest is the fact that marines have a lot of bugs to exploit and the kharaa get pwned too easily. Unbalance issues WILL be fixed in 1.1 (as well as lots of bugs/exploits) so that should make the games more interesting. The problem right now is people dont like:
#1 constantly WINNING as a marine #2 constantly LOSING as a kharaa
of course its not 100% but if a few marines know how to exploit some bugs, the kharaa dont stand a chance. Heck, even without the bugs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
aliens win alot on every server i play. maybe im just that good!! hehe j/k... i play ns alot and so far it has not gotten boring at all. if you think its boring do what i did and create another NS game called "NS Custom" and put only custom models in there with a theme. i have a AvP2 one and am working on a Starcraft one. I might consider the "cute" series but thoe are only alien models. it is reallly quite fun to spice up 1.04
Of course NS for me hasn't been boring yet. There is always space to refine one's skills either as a lmg-toter or a celerized skulk (sure, that word exists). There is so much room for improvement. I still haven't mastered the lerk yet. Although I cannot say the same thing if I was one of those who played 24/7. Luckily I don't, my time divided between school and also DOD. But no one will be complaining when 1.1 comes out, for it will be a whole new experience. And speaking of 1.1... about some information abo....oops, wrong thread. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--XenoMorF+May 10 2003, 06:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XenoMorF @ May 10 2003, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i have got beter things to do, and thats what i was doing after and before i posted this...
and i dont spend all day complaining, i was just saying that NS v1.04 looks to be dieing due to lack of interest, if u cant see that or face that then please, leave me alone <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> By posting your sentiments on the general discussion board, you are effectively whinning. Why bother posting at all if you want people to leave you alone?
That said, I agree with the statement "The game is not boring, the players might be."
YO everyone... take ten steps back away from this topic... dont bring your negative karma of 1.04 into my positive world <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
well, this "NS is getting boring crap" is knida true, but i gotta say that this is the most impressive mod i have ever seen made for half-life, this is what ive been looking for ever since i started playing starcraft, to be IN the strat, not just watchnig it from above, and its such a rush. the only reason the game is gettnig boring is like a bunch of other people said, the friggin clanners, its always jp/hmg rush and its getting soooo old, whats the point of just rushing thru the match. anyway, ns isnt getting boring, its getting repetetive, which has nothing to do with the game itself, it all has to do with the idiots youre playing with. try relocatnig to weird places as marine, like that little cockpit room on ns_bast, lol its hilarious, turret farm! god i canot wait for 1.1, it's gonna be great.
At this point, it doesn't have to be great, just different... Before the final 1.04 patch came out I was playing on hastezone which was getting beta version of 1.04. Everynight was different and you had to come up with new strats almost every night.
I think one of the reasons we see the same tactics over and over again is because not only are they the most effective path to victory but if the other team is good these tactics are really one of the only ways to win.
Think about it. Against a skilled, compitant marine team any build other than d-m-s for the aliens simply doesn't work, purely because the mov and sens upgrades are so weak compared to cara or regen. Against a co-ordinated skilled alien team relocation is often the marine's best chance for success, given that marines currently cannot hold resource points without wasting far too many resources. Similarly, even highly skilled alien teams can't stop jp rushes at early 1 hive stages. People speak of going gorge or lerk, well how about when a jetpacker sails into the hive before your 1st res tower is even up? It can easily happen, and DOES. The marines right now have to follow a very limited set of tactics to win; if they deviate from them they almost always lose. The problem is of course thse limited tactics are extreamly powerful. The aliens are in very much the same situation: d-m-s one gorge only is really the only viable strat against compitant marines, although there can be a little more room for change (but not much <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Right now we yell at someone for going gorge when we already have a gorge because all too often that is the fine line between defeat and victory. Early lerks currently can be nice, but the slowing of resources can easily cripple the alien side. Similarly, building a tf at the marine spawn simply leads to defeat, every single 1.04 game I've played where a tf went down at the marine spawn at the start of the game has resulted in defeat. Not a single success. The same applies for fortifying lone resource points: it just isn't viable for the marines.
I'm not saying that winning is everything. But it is the aim of the team from the outset to achieve victory. Right now the options for victory are so limited. 1.1 will, I'm sure, be changing this. How will it address this? Well thats for the devs to decide, not me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Please take note that there are still quiet a few things in 1.1 that havent been mentioned in great detail, in-fact, i expect the 1.1 changelist to be quite longer than the one posted when MonsE comes back and starts his
"1.1 PR Spammage"
Also, to say that HL2 will just be based on graphics is.well, stupid. i cant quiet imagine how you came to this conclusion, but i assure you that Valve will make HL2 the best, and most moddable FPS since...well...HL1. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the NS team is trying to do, and what you don't seem to have grasped, is create a situation where differant paths to victory are possible. Right now these are limited; that is true. 1.1 will aim to correct this by for example making currently underused alien upgrades viable.
Tactics will likely change based around what the other team is using. Marines are tech rushing? Get two more ppl to go gorge and throw down extra res towers for fast fades and oni. Aliens doing def first? Marines grab wpn upgrades. Aliens res rushing? Get heavy armour to take on fades and oni. Thats a few very limited examples of what 1.1 may bring.
The true goal here will obviously be to avoid the "one strat better than all others strat". This IS achieveable; look back to Starcraft for instance. I think you're being a little too shallow minded, and also assuming that the 1.04 uber tactics will not be addressed in 1.1. Namely, jetpacks right now are an uber strat because the aliens have no 1 hive counter. 2 hive lockdowns are an uber strat because 1 hive aliens can't break them. D-M-S is the uber alien strat not because carapace is so essential but because the mov and sens techs basically suck in comparison to the def techs. 1.1 is addressing ALL of these issues, and if a new uber strat comes out of 1.1, well then 1.2 will address it.
You simply can't expect for the developers, no matter how good they are, to achieve perfect balance with a couple of server side patches. Again, the Starcraft example: it took over 9 client patches for the game to be extreamly balanced; NS may very well take the same (although it only has 2 races to balance).
Give the NS team some time and understand the task they have to undertake.
All things tend to become boring over time... And NS is in the "all things" basket... Don't play it for a few months and you'll love it again...
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I think a combination of limited viable tactics and an often overly-critical/hostile player base does not help at all. After a significant break (of about a month and a half) I returned only to witness some of the worst habitual whiners ever. "OMG my team sucks....don't go lerk !....lerk is a bad idea... useless marines..." etc.
And I'm not talking about the odd complaint here and there: this is continual bitching and bemoaning. Quite honestly this has prompted me to delete NS. I will however try out 1.1, and hopefully find some decent servers.
I'm sorry to say this guys (and I know other Mods have plenty of idiots too) but the NS community that I've come across (in game) for the most part has not been any better than the "infamous" CS community. I'd be curious to know just how much bandwith the average NS game consumes in terms of hostile voice and text messages. Talk about a waste of resources.
This saddens me deeply because NS has alot of potential... and I'd hate to see it lose out because of llammary
at its finest.
As for 1.1, I agree - it will r0x0r j00r b0x0rz. Balance tweaks are always nice, but the gameplay that is in 1.04 is still pretty awesome.
*edit* this applies to pubs only, not clanplay - i have no experience in that arena, and so I can't really say anything about it *edit* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks man, good way of putting it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This saddens me deeply because NS has alot of potential... and I'd hate to see it lose out because of llammary
at its finest. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, a big bunch of apples always contains some rotten ones. And considering NS has a big community it also has a good percentage of "rottens ones"...
But that's with all the multipalyer games. They're just as good as the people are.
<b>The game is not boring, the players might be.</b>
And to be quite honest, it sounds like you are pretty boring. "No new tactics", "always the same". Yeah? Why don't you make it different then? The reson it gets predictable is that people in general are dimwitted, unimaginative and boring. They find one thing that work and then repeat it ad nauseum, and if they lose continuously their reaction isn't "What can I do/change about this?" but instead "Woe is me! The game/world is unfair!! Somebody fix it!". And don't start whining that the game is "broken" and that for example JP/HMG rush is unstoppable, we've seen it, learned to beat it and moved on.
Shesh, people are such victims. If people like you actually tried to be a bit creative instead, it wouldn't get boring. Take responsibility for your own fun for crying out loud. This is definetely a client-side problem more then anything. If 1.1 fixes some unbalances and add some fun stuff, great, that's not going to take away the whining though, you'll be back, crying about something, no matter what they do, that's just the way people are I guess.
Summary:
- Grow up and take responsibility (yeah, I know, whining is so much easier)
- Use your imagination/creativity, only you make the game boring
- If you absolutely can't do anything of the above, just go away, don't stick around just to annoy those that can.
<b>The game is not boring, the players might be.</b>
And to be quite honest, it sounds like you are pretty boring. "No new tactics", "always the same". Yeah? Why don't you make it different then? The reson it gets predictable is that people in general are dimwitted, unimaginative and boring. They find one thing that work and then repeat it ad nauseum, and if they lose continuously their reaction isn't "What can I do/change about this?" but instead "Woe is me! The game/world is unfair!! Somebody fix it!". And don't start whining that the game is "broken" and that for example JP/HMG rush is unstoppable, we've seen it, learned to beat it and moved on.
Shesh, people are such victims. If people like you actually tried to be a bit creative instead, it wouldn't get boring. Take responsibility for your own fun for crying out loud. This is definetely a client-side problem more then anything. If 1.1 fixes some unbalances and add some fun stuff, great, that's not going to take away the whining though, you'll be back, crying about something, no matter what they do, that's just the way people are I guess.
Summary:
- Grow up and take responsibility (yeah, I know, whining is so much easier)
- Use your imagination/creativity, only you make the game boring
- If you absolutely can't do anything of the above, just go away, don't stick around just to annoy those that can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brilliantly spoken.
Now, for those of you who <i>are</i> interested in driving the creativity and open-mindedness required to keep any "old" game fun, I would like to extend a warm invitation to you.
I play NS exclusively on one of the many servers (spanning several game titles) that is part of something called Tactical Gamer. This is a community of mature players who respect each other when they play and respect each others' efforts when the game is over, regardless of who won and who lost. Many of us that play there play there exclusively. It's a very special server with very special people.
I bring this up now only because we have the solution to the problem presented in this thread: creativity and maturity. These are the two characteristics required to drive the satisfaction of an aging game (however you define "aging"). You can't give me a strategy in this game that can't be countered. The fact is, if the marines brought HMG rush on your hive, and it cost you the game, you did something wrong. Are the marines cheap for doing that? Who cares. The point is, it CAN be countered. At Tactical Gamer, we challenge each other with new strategies ALL THE TIME. And it may take the rest of us time, but we WILL LEARN how to counter them effectively.
Do you know what this sort of attitude spawns? Massive, unparalled competition. And with the right outlook, massive competition spawns massive enjoyment.
We have a few house rules about blocking doors and elevators, etc, but for the most part, any strategy is fair game. However, we try hard to enjoy the game, sometimes at the cost of winning it. Ask yourself which you prefer: winning after 12 minutes with JP/HMG, or losing after 65 minutes of umbra, acid rockets, GLs, HA, heal spray, webs, spikes, and xenocide? If you place yourself in the latter group and you're frustrated with too many of the former, consider yourself invited to join us at Tactical Gamer: Natural Selection.
208.144.248.101:27015
I have no idea where you guys have played before. I don't even know you guys. Despite that, I can promise you that you <i>will</i> consider this server one of the finest teamplay-oriented servers available online if you play there for two weeks. I'm not claiming it's the only server you should play on.. that's for you to decide. However, it IS the only server *I* play on. Sometimes you have to wait in line to join, but it's worth the wait, believe me. And rumor has it that we'll be expanding to two NS servers soon.
I'm there any time I'm playing NS, and I sure do hope to see some of you there soon. You'll be glad you gave it a chance. If you can't play now, check out <a href='http://tacticalgamer.com' target='_blank'>http://tacticalgamer.com</a>.
Wyzcrak
Feh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If your talking about me you shoud refrain what you are saying, people are putting down one of the best hl mods besides cs probally cause I dont like cs..Im just defending the people who made this game possible, ect so maybe you should think about what your saying buddy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didnt' mean you. That was directed at xenomorph, and just people who have nothing better to do than complain about a free game that people put their hard work into.
and i dont spend all day complaining, i was just saying that NS v1.04 looks to be dieing due to lack of interest, if u cant see that or face that then please, leave me alone <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually I play maybe 1-2 hrs a day and I have gotten kinda bored with it. The old JP rush and D/M/S has gotten incredibly boring. It happens on most all servers I join. And to clear up some confusion, I have a wife and a 9 month old son so I probably have quite a great life outside of computer games. Also I am a web master for a hospital making pretty good money so the 'have no life' statement doesnt particularly apply to me.
But I have to say I believe 1.1 will be pretty awesome. I am more anxious of it than any other release of any other mod.
but sure im waiting 1.1 too ..
Ah yes, the old JP rush <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's the one where Marines fly into the hive and get shot down by OC's/Lerks/Healspray and chewed/parasited by skulks while gorges and D chambers heal the hive. This one usually ends with Aliens going Onos just to annoy the marines, right? Don't see how that could be boring.
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Or do you mean the one where the whole alien team is spread out all over the map while a single JP:er is allowed to take down the undefended hive? I'm tired of that one too, so I usually don't play on servers where Aliens allow that.
The game is not boring, the players might be.
And to be quite honest, it sounds like you are pretty boring. "No new tactics", "always the same". Yeah? Why don't you make it different then? The reson it gets predictable is that people in general are dimwitted, unimaginative and boring. They find one thing that work and then repeat it ad nauseum, and if they lose continuously their reaction isn't "What can I do/change about this?" but instead "Woe is me! The game/world is unfair!! Somebody fix it!". And don't start whining that the game is "broken" and that for example JP/HMG rush is unstoppable, we've seen it, learned to beat it and moved on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't preach about being "creative" unless you gave some examples. Chances are it's been done before.
JP rushes countered, mentioned this. Ok, the latest successful strategy implemented:
Aliens, on Tanith, we harass Marines until we get lvl3 Cara, then, as soon as people hit 33 res they lerk up. We have 4 Gorges and 5 Lerks hit Marine base and clear it out, move on to Reacor, clear it, Marines have relocated to Cargo, 2 Lerks and a Gorge dies but we clear that. Win. A non-regular Marine was quoted saying:
"That's the n00best tactic I have ever seen work"
A prime example of someone who thinks any deviation from the norm is bad.
Nancy is currently known as ns:rush_to_messhall or ns_marines_always_win. Mainly after we (well I, but I regret it) started foregoing base (2 IP's only) and putting an Armory up in Mess Hall, that was basically the key to just making that into "marines always win". We've had one counter (almost) beat it, with refinement it probably will.
A couple of off-the-bat gorge rushes and variations have been tried, some successful, mostly failed. I suggest you just jump on the server for yourself. PM me if you want the IP.
Current Marine trend I would say is resource denial. Someone COM:ed today and dropped 2 IP's and an OBS, and got the (funny, I though).. "ohh... I feel like I am playing 1.03". Cargo relocation seems to be the norm on other servers I have played on, that has about a 90% fail ratio since everyone is ready for it and know how to counter it, so it is basically never done anymore. We still have people join and go "You have to do this!" or "You have to relocate here, n00b!" or whatever, they suually just get a "Shush, the COM knows what he is doing."
Ps. Being creative has nothing to do with whether it has been "done before" or not, it is a mindset or mental quality. The first thing that people learn on "how to be cool" is to act blasé, and say "it's been done before". Doesn't mean anything.
Pps. I invented the observatory rush!! Its objective is to build 8-12 observatories inside the Hive and keep them on constant distress to confuse the aliens while a marine knifes the hive, I admit it may be a bit risky, but I got it to work once!
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its like christmas all over again!
Unbalance issues WILL be fixed in 1.1 (as well as lots of bugs/exploits) so that should make the games more interesting.
The problem right now is people dont like:
#1 constantly WINNING as a marine
#2 constantly LOSING as a kharaa
of course its not 100% but if a few marines know how to exploit some bugs, the kharaa dont stand a chance. Heck, even without the bugs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
lck plz
But no one will be complaining when 1.1 comes out, for it will be a whole new experience. And speaking of 1.1... about some information abo....oops, wrong thread. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
and i dont spend all day complaining, i was just saying that NS v1.04 looks to be dieing due to lack of interest, if u cant see that or face that then please, leave me alone <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
By posting your sentiments on the general discussion board, you are effectively whinning. Why bother posting at all if you want people to leave you alone?
That said, I agree with the statement "The game is not boring, the players might be."
<b><span style='color:red'>**LOCKED**</b></span>
hehehe sexy gorge <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Before the final 1.04 patch came out I was playing on hastezone which was getting beta version of 1.04.
Everynight was different and you had to come up with new strats almost every night.
God I envy the playtesters.
Think about it. Against a skilled, compitant marine team any build other than d-m-s for the aliens simply doesn't work, purely because the mov and sens upgrades are so weak compared to cara or regen. Against a co-ordinated skilled alien team relocation is often the marine's best chance for success, given that marines currently cannot hold resource points without wasting far too many resources. Similarly, even highly skilled alien teams can't stop jp rushes at early 1 hive stages. People speak of going gorge or lerk, well how about when a jetpacker sails into the hive before your 1st res tower is even up? It can easily happen, and DOES. The marines right now have to follow a very limited set of tactics to win; if they deviate from them they almost always lose. The problem is of course thse limited tactics are extreamly powerful. The aliens are in very much the same situation: d-m-s one gorge only is really the only viable strat against compitant marines, although there can be a little more room for change (but not much <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Right now we yell at someone for going gorge when we already have a gorge because all too often that is the fine line between defeat and victory. Early lerks currently can be nice, but the slowing of resources can easily cripple the alien side. Similarly, building a tf at the marine spawn simply leads to defeat, every single 1.04 game I've played where a tf went down at the marine spawn at the start of the game has resulted in defeat. Not a single success. The same applies for fortifying lone resource points: it just isn't viable for the marines.
I'm not saying that winning is everything. But it is the aim of the team from the outset to achieve victory. Right now the options for victory are so limited. 1.1 will, I'm sure, be changing this. How will it address this? Well thats for the devs to decide, not me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->