Instant Siege

mp40 · May 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">why bother with lcokdowns?</div> Ok, imagine you are playing an RTS. AOM, war3, generals, it doesn't matter. Would you rather:

a) starve the enemy of resources
b) get a forward base and launch an attack

IMHO b is the better choice. You force them to divert attention to your outpost and away from their main objectives. However, NS isnt played like an RTS. I don't really know why. Would you rather secure all the gold mines in war3 when you can tower outside their base at the start?

My point exactly. Okok, pls don't get angry. But lockdown sounds like a strategy that should never have existed. Pg, tf, 4 turrets, and a siege does not sound like too much if you keep pressure on their team and have 3 rts. For example, in a 7v7 game, get 3 men to man the forward base and the other three to go rt hunting, and you should destroy the enemy before the 2nd hive comes up.

PS. i haven't tried the strategy yet but pls dun flame me. ok? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

[edit]
look at alien bob's post

krapht · May 2003

because if you lose that forward base you've lost EVERYTHING. The skulks spawn REAL close to that forward base, and you won't have (in the beginning of the game) enough res to build phase gates.

That being said sometimes this is done but usually doesn't work unless marines outclass <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> .

ThE_HeRo · May 2003

Either way, you're probably going to win the game. I had this nice long post, but i decided that either way you're going to win the game, lockdown or seige, unless you REALLY screw up. Either way, you should have at least one guy securing res, which will win the game for you.

include · May 2003

NS has an insanly fast respawn rate for aliens. A forward base would be taken out incredibly fast, unless you had a ton of marines on yoru team to have enough to have 5-7 marines stay there....and even then, skulks are freaking hard to hit in these small maps and can just bite kill 4 or 5 marines within a few seconds if 2 or 3 skulks rush together.

Melkor · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RpTheHotrod @ May 5 2003, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> NS has an insanly fast respawn rate for aliens.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Assuming that marines only have one ip aliens spawn 2 seconds faster. Marines almost always have at least 2 ips however. One of the aliens biggest disadvantages is their one hive spawn rate.

This is actually a great idea. You don't even have to fortify within seige range. Just get a phase and turrets up and you have an instant staging area to get their hive. If the marines can aim and they haven't gotten carapace yet there is nothing to stop you from holding that forward area. Once most of the aliens are waiting to respawn you can walk into the hive and blast it.

taboofires · May 2003

Whatever you build near the enemy hive should be taken out by a war of attrition. The phase gate is your only real hope. If you can get there, get a phase up, and manage to keep it well defended, and not lose a different base in the process, you've accomplished quite a bit. The sieging part is easy.

It's easier to take empty hives because the attrition aspect isn't so strong. Plus, you (usually) get a free res node as compensation.

Alien_Bob · May 2003

plz dun rite like txt msging, k?

Litany · May 2003

Hypocrisy or sarcasm, I can't tell which.

Either way: <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

obuh · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RpTheHotrod @ May 5 2003, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> NS has an insanly fast respawn rate for aliens.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
where did you find thid joke <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

That_Annoying_Kid · May 2003

so can you use leet speak?

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

Innarestin'... Well, my main gripe with MP RTS games stems from rushes. It all comes down to speed in gathering resources so you can build an army and, to quote Agent Smith in The Matrix, "Find them and destroy them!" And it feels like no fun at all. Especially when you go to forums for tactics only to find them filled with hideously large bouts of number-crunching. For example - it takes a villager such & such time to gather wood so if you create new villagers at a rate of so many a minute you can get an army set up in less than 7 minutes. Then you can rush your opposition, etc. etc. Blah - it robs it of fun for me.

Hence why I like harvesting resources and setting up numerous bases. And those exciting moments when fades rush in on you and you pummel them with shotguns. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I must admit, however, I played a game in Nancy (I think - that spaceship) where we immediately abandoned our base and ran at Kharaa's Hive with shotguns. We killed it and won in something like less than 5 minutes or summat ridiculous like that. And we did it 3 times. Very very silly but fun anyhoo.

Angry_Cheese · May 2003

Ive almost never played a game that was both "fun" and won via any sort of rush, especially when people feel the need to repeat the tactic over and over.

For example, once on tanith, a comm who seemed pretty good was on with a clan buddy...3 games in a row were won by this one skilled clansmen by singlehandely. He of course, went JP/HMG and massacred. The moral is: A really good rush can be amusing, but it gets really annoying if its done over and over.

Church · May 2003

seiging is fun though, and it forces the aliens to fight on YOUR terms: They charge at you, you shoot them with ranged weapons.

I love seiging DCD from holoroom.

Tiberius · May 2003

To build a forward base near the alien hive in the beginning is a huge risk. Lets say you build a TF, couple of turrets in sieging range from the alien hive and start to upgrade the TF. That means 20 + 19 + 19 + 25 res = 83 res. That means an armslab, lvl 1 weapons and armor. At first the aliens are pinned down, and the situation seems good for the marines, but the moment the aliens get carapace the forward base will be overrun and the marines have just wasted a good 83 res and most likely don't have weapons upgrades. This gives the aliens a chance to launch a counterattack with a very good chance of success.
This once happened to my clan in a clanwar. Our opponent immediately built a TF in processing when our hive was in Data Core. They guarded the TF with 3-4 marines and couple of turrets. For a moment we though that we were screwed but then we got carapace and all it took was 3 skulks and our gorge to kill the 3 marines guarding the TF and to destroy the TF and turrets. At the same time 2 skulks rushed the marine base and ate everything. The marines tried to stop them, but with lvl 0 weapons they had no chance of survival against our skulks.

Turkey2 · May 2003

conditions have to be right but relocating right outside their main hive can be fun and effective. Mother interface outside subspace is the one we like to do every once and a while. Obviously the good ol cargo outside fusion works well too. get at least 2 or 3 ip's when doing this and should be pretty easy. camping that hallway outside sunspace is really easy esp since most skulks dont use the vent system well or even at all. If you make them get dc's before another res tower then they are so far behind anyways. But usually if you go in you can kill the hive with a team of lmg's. Of course doesnt always work and depends highly on the success of relocation.

stealth1205 · May 2003

one REALLY successful way of making this strategy work, is to make sure that you place an armory at the forward base, adn drop mines to help defend it. LOTS of mines. This works great in several maps. It is good as long as your teammates are good shots, and can cover each other.and it requires usually 2+ peopel at the forward base who have good aim.

Xzilen · May 2003

Perhaps if you have two of those marines bring mines for a mine rush on the enemy at the start to, it MAY work.

Eviscerator · May 2003

Hundreds of strategies have evolved (and died) in this game because of the people who've thought of them and then <b>tried</b> them. That's the beauty of a game like NS, where there are an infinite number of ways for a game to play out. You don't see much "rush to their hive and siege right away" for a number of reasons. The most obvious, as others have already mentioned, is the fact that it costs a <b>ton</b> of resources to pull off. Resources you simply do not have early on. You could build a couple resource towers to help. But two more resource towers cost 44 res, and you won't recover those resources for a few minutes at best. And the aliens aren't simply going to sit around and wait for you to collect enough res to start building right outside their hive, and then sit around while you build siege, and then sit around doing nothing while you pound their hive. It simply won't ever happen like that.

Anything you build even remotely close to their hive right away is going to go down, if the aliens are even slightly competent. The only way this idea would work is if you mine rush or spawn kill, and if you succeed against the aliens in either of those cases you don't even need to siege. Just mine up the entryways, kill anything that spawns, and hit the hive with your lmgs. This has worked numerous times, without even bothering with a siege. I've seen it done at least a dozen times. In every case, the marines turned the tables on the typical "early alien rush" and did the exact same thing in reverse. What's weird is that most aliens get upset when this happens. They are incredibly easy to pick off when they can't get any upgrades going, and two marines sitting under the hive spawn area can very easily keep the entire alien team from doing anything at all. This is frustrating as h-ll to the aliens, but it's no different than what happens when they rush to marine spawn and kill everything in less than a minute.

What is really fun to me is when the aliens put down a marine early rush. This depicts just how risky a marine rush is. A week ago we were playing Eclipse. Aliens started with Maintenance. Marines decide they're going to try the early rush. Not JP, just an initial slam in hopes of killing the hive. They build one IP, an armory, and nothing else. They camp in their base, covering the doors, and do not leave. They upgrade to advanced armory immediately. This takes two minutes. They buy two shotties and two HMGs, then send those 4 guys to maintenance. No res towers, no arms lab, and no obs. They spent all their res on weapons. A skulk spots them coming out of their base, and the alarm is sounded. "Initial rush! HMGs/shotties, coming to maintenance. Get there now!" We didn't even have a DC yet. Our gorge was off building res towers. The 4 marines come to the top deck at maintenance; that entryway with a direct line to the hive. Three skulks pounce on them simultaneously. The marines start spraying all over the place. The skulks jump all over them, and kill all 4 marines with their expensive toys. We lost one skulk in the exchange. The marines don't get a single shot on the hive. It was the most beautiful thing. The game was <b>over</b> from that moment on. Aliens got 3 DCs, overran marine spawn, and the game was finished.

CEldin · May 2003

Tactic is unfeasable without mines. Simple as that.

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eviscerator @ May 8 2003, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What is really fun to me is when the aliens put down a marine early rush. This depicts just how risky a marine rush is. A week ago we were playing Eclipse. Aliens started with Maintenance. Marines decide they're going to try the early rush. Not JP, just an initial slam in hopes of killing the hive. They build one IP, an armory, and nothing else. They camp in their base, covering the doors, and do not leave. They upgrade to advanced armory immediately. This takes two minutes. They buy two shotties and two HMGs, then send those 4 guys to maintenance. No res towers, no arms lab, and no obs. They spent all their res on weapons. A skulk spots them coming out of their base, and the alarm is sounded. "Initial rush! HMGs/shotties, coming to maintenance. Get there now!" We didn't even have a DC yet. Our gorge was off building res towers. The 4 marines come to the top deck at maintenance; that entryway with a direct line to the hive. Three skulks pounce on them simultaneously. The marines start spraying all over the place. The skulks jump all over them, and kill all 4 marines with their expensive toys. We lost one skulk in the exchange. The marines don't get a single shot on the hive. It was the most beautiful thing. The game was <b>over</b> from that moment on. Aliens got 3 DCs, overran marine spawn, and the game was finished.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Doesn't sound much like an early rush to me...

Kazyras · May 2003

A HMG rush happens pretty early from an alien's point of view, remember that it takes a while for the gorge to get his first RT up.

Clan_Hunter · May 2003

IP: 22 Res
Armory: 25 Res
Observatory: 25 Res
2 Phase Gates: 50 Res
Upgraded TF: 45 Res
4 Turrets: 76 Res
Seige Turret: 20 Res

Eating it all with an army of 0 Res Skulks: Priceless.

Disclaimer: Figures are all either from the manual or the changelogs.

Edit: Fixed. Thanks Kazyras, I play alien 90% of the time so I don't know marine costs.

Kazyras · May 2003

Oh god... sentries VS skulks? No way. Just drop an armory and spam mines around, then build TF, upgrade it immediately, drop 2 siege and start scanning. Marines will be your sentries. The only time you should even build turrets is when mines are useless (aliens have 2 hives.)

Upgraded TF is 45 res and a siege turret is 20 BTW.

Geronimo · May 2003

In most places marines home base will be eaten during the siege attempt or marines will be to slow(if they mine base etc) and wont have res to build up a good defence...

Siege right away also requires complete teamwork

Neoskeptic · May 2003

forward bases work in RTS games because:

1) The enemy keeps dying as he throws his forces at you.

2) You keep adding to the troops at the forward base.

Keep in mind that only one of those can become reality in NS, since you can't have more troops than there are players. (minus one because the commander isn't there personally, although yes, he is potentially the most powerful marine in the game.)

Church · May 2003

haha, he IS the most powerful marine in the game, technically. Can we say, "In Commander we Trust?" stamped over every res bill in the TSA worls or something like that? Comm is GOD to the marine (of course he can also get voted out of office :-p)

Early rushes work with good marines because marines are so damned powerful vs vanilla aliens at one hive. Do you know how EASY it is if you get your whole team or most of your team sticking together and covering each other + medpack support from comm the aliens will stand almost no chance to stop them from getting a location, and keeping it.

big_fat_c0w · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Do you know how EASY it is if you get your whole team or most of your team sticking together and covering each other </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

when was the last time you played in a pub???
even on the best server most of the time you will have 1-3 noobs... therefore this tactic which must have perfect teamwork will fail=it's a great tactic in a clan match but it's an horrable tactic in a pub with all the noobs wondring around... somtimes asking for hmg somtimes asking for pg in this case in some far away hive...
anyway imho the way this tactic should work...
1 IP 1 obs+ 2 PG=22+25+50=97
then you build more IP's(the more the marrier)... no armory yet.. i know it sounds strange but most of the times your marines would never finish thier intial ammo sinec they would be dead... also in this way marines won't stay @ base and reload to 250 ammo

also no tf's or mines since they are vannila skulks.. it's too easy to kill...
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Church · May 2003

Find better teammates and better servers. I do not base strategies around n00bs.

sej · May 2003

You know why.... because its no fun.

Want to win a game 100 percent of the time ?

Do an ip rush / jp hmg rush / siege rush (as you stated)

Is this fun on publics? No.

Is this why lots of people are fed up with clanned ns? Yes

Precious · May 2003

I like the last post (maybe a few post before) except the part about relocating to mother Interface. As was said this is very dangerous! Instead what I do all the time is relocate to Mess. At first I though this a dump strat but it works.
From here your are in great position to attack any hive. (at this point I do different things) If you want to siege Subspace, Mother is just a step away and it is easy to defend from skulks rushing you through the long hallway between mother and subspace. By the way! Do not use T's to defend with just use mines its cheaper. Plus being that mess is so close to mother you don't need a PG either.

In reply to the post about rushes being boring.....
A server I play on has a rule no JP/HMG rushes before aliens get 2 complete hives. I am sure there are other servers like this. I just don't play on servers where a team does the same fast rushes over and over again. If I am in the mode to play like that I go to a sever that alows it.

Kazyras · May 2003

Why relocate to mess hall? Just TAKE IT. Marine start on nancy is so easily defended, it would be a shame to lose it.

Instant Siege

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