How To Tech Up
Little_Hunter
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12793Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12793Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Fades are not the end of the game</div> With the popularity of the jet pack rush, many people have forgoten that the prototype lab has another item that can be gotten. What seems to happen in most (public) games is that a commander tries to get the team to lock down two hives, yet can only get one. By the time the skulks start leaping the com panics and drops down some hmgs/jets, only to lose them in an "all or nothing" attack. However, this is not the "best" way to tech up your team. It is better to use expensive stuff to defend, since defenders have the advantage (turrets) and the stuff can usually be recycled durring respawns (someone else picks up the gun the dead guy droped). If marines can lock down one hive, they already have scored a huge victory, they have limited how far the aliens can go up in the tech tree. Now if marines reach the top of their tech tree, they will have a huge advantage over the aliens. Grenade launchers counter umbra, hmgs can rip apart melee fades, and hev armor lets a marine take about 8 acid rockets, with out being welded. To implament this ingame, here is what I usually do.
-Set aside 22-44 res of your starting 100 to get a few res towers outside your base up immidatly.
-Use your marines to defend these towers until you get about 4 or so up. Then started turret farming and linking them together with phase gates. (*NOTE* at least one of these turret farms should be in one of the empty hives)
-By the time the alien hive startes growing you should have an arms lab (get ONLY armor upgrades, don't bother with weapon upgrades till you have level 3 armor) a prototype lab, and be upgrading your armory.
-By the time the skulk start leaping you should start researching Hev Armor then SAVE UP! Cut your spending total so that once the fades come and hev armor is done you can drop at least 2 sets of hev, 1 hmg, 1 gl, 2 welders.
-Equip the people that listen to you with the hev armor, hmg/gl and welders.
-USE THE HEV ARMOR PEOPLE FOR DEFENSE ONLY! This way the don't die as much. Their hmg will force the fades to use ranged attacks, the gl will prevent umbra and pin the fades hiding around the corner. Plus the welders can be used to patch up any damage done to the buildings before the group moves on.
-Use only your light armor lmg troops to attack. Tell them to target res nodes but warn them that you will not build siege guns for them.
-Since the only people that SHOULD be dieing will be your "free" marines, you will be able to save up more res. Over time equip more and more of your team with hev armor, welders, and big guns (hmgs/gls). Make sure though that all the hev armors stay on defense.
-Once your WHOLE team is in hev armor keep the WHOLE team on defense. Save up res to replace the occational person who dies, and work on totaly upgrading everything. Once you have level 3 armor/ammo, mt, and enought turrets and an extra turret fac at each mini-base get ready to attack.
-Before you attack make sure you save up a good 200ish res. This is so you will be able to instantly re-equip your team if the attack fails and they all die.
-The aliens will have two hives, and you will only need to hit one. Pick the one that is less defended, plan your rout (use scans) then send about half your team to attack.
-If the siege cannon goes up, or the hive goes down in a hail of HMG fire try to secure it. However don't keep sending your Hev armor marines to defend the hive if they keep dieing. If the hive goes down yet you cant hold it, cut your losses. Rember, you only have the advantage as long as your marines are tanks (in hev armor with big guns).
-If you hit the hive but can't hold it, try falling back to a siege location and build up there. If you can't do that, then capitalize on the weakness of the aliens by taking some of their res tower areas and build them up.
-Rember, when two teams are fighting with access to the top of their tech tree, res are paramounmt. If they can't keep going fade you will win.
However, if you can't keep giving out hev armor, they will win. While a tank is has more life and can do more damage then a fade, a tank costs 60 or 68 res to equip (depending on hmg or gl) while a fade only takes 54 and a lerk only 33.
The key is not to let your tanks die. Use them for defense, where their death is less likely, and more of their stuff can be recycled (hmg, welder, picked up again). A tank that dies in an alien hive room will cost 60 res to replace, while one that dies by a spawn portal will cost only 25.
-Set aside 22-44 res of your starting 100 to get a few res towers outside your base up immidatly.
-Use your marines to defend these towers until you get about 4 or so up. Then started turret farming and linking them together with phase gates. (*NOTE* at least one of these turret farms should be in one of the empty hives)
-By the time the alien hive startes growing you should have an arms lab (get ONLY armor upgrades, don't bother with weapon upgrades till you have level 3 armor) a prototype lab, and be upgrading your armory.
-By the time the skulk start leaping you should start researching Hev Armor then SAVE UP! Cut your spending total so that once the fades come and hev armor is done you can drop at least 2 sets of hev, 1 hmg, 1 gl, 2 welders.
-Equip the people that listen to you with the hev armor, hmg/gl and welders.
-USE THE HEV ARMOR PEOPLE FOR DEFENSE ONLY! This way the don't die as much. Their hmg will force the fades to use ranged attacks, the gl will prevent umbra and pin the fades hiding around the corner. Plus the welders can be used to patch up any damage done to the buildings before the group moves on.
-Use only your light armor lmg troops to attack. Tell them to target res nodes but warn them that you will not build siege guns for them.
-Since the only people that SHOULD be dieing will be your "free" marines, you will be able to save up more res. Over time equip more and more of your team with hev armor, welders, and big guns (hmgs/gls). Make sure though that all the hev armors stay on defense.
-Once your WHOLE team is in hev armor keep the WHOLE team on defense. Save up res to replace the occational person who dies, and work on totaly upgrading everything. Once you have level 3 armor/ammo, mt, and enought turrets and an extra turret fac at each mini-base get ready to attack.
-Before you attack make sure you save up a good 200ish res. This is so you will be able to instantly re-equip your team if the attack fails and they all die.
-The aliens will have two hives, and you will only need to hit one. Pick the one that is less defended, plan your rout (use scans) then send about half your team to attack.
-If the siege cannon goes up, or the hive goes down in a hail of HMG fire try to secure it. However don't keep sending your Hev armor marines to defend the hive if they keep dieing. If the hive goes down yet you cant hold it, cut your losses. Rember, you only have the advantage as long as your marines are tanks (in hev armor with big guns).
-If you hit the hive but can't hold it, try falling back to a siege location and build up there. If you can't do that, then capitalize on the weakness of the aliens by taking some of their res tower areas and build them up.
-Rember, when two teams are fighting with access to the top of their tech tree, res are paramounmt. If they can't keep going fade you will win.
However, if you can't keep giving out hev armor, they will win. While a tank is has more life and can do more damage then a fade, a tank costs 60 or 68 res to equip (depending on hmg or gl) while a fade only takes 54 and a lerk only 33.
The key is not to let your tanks die. Use them for defense, where their death is less likely, and more of their stuff can be recycled (hmg, welder, picked up again). A tank that dies in an alien hive room will cost 60 res to replace, while one that dies by a spawn portal will cost only 25.
Comments
Ok YOU NEED WEAPON UPGRADES. The skulks will have carapace, it takes alot of lmg shots to kill them (7+6=13x2(-99%)=<b>26</b> at lvl 0 lmg) and you are guarented to miss atleast a few shots, plus this is only vs. 1 skulk, it would be very hard to take out any more. Get lvl 1 armor, then tech up to lvl 2 weapons, by then they should have the second hive going up. Now you get lvls 2-3 armor upgrades. Now they should have fades. Finish it off with lvl 3.
As for your math, i don't quite get where the numbers are coming from (no offence). They seem a little high, since I have killed 2 skulks with 1 lmg clip before (lev 0) and I know I didn't hit 100% of the time, and odds are they both were at full health (I'm sure other people have done this too).
Do not go for lvl3 armor before weapons. I would suggest:
Armor, Weapons, Weapons, Armor(if they have 2:nd hive), Weapons.
Basically get lvl1 armor, then keep upgrading weapons until they have 2 hives at which time you go immediatly for lvl2 armor.
With lvl 0 weps you will be having a very hard time defending against carapaced skulks. A lvl3 cara skulk will take 19 shots to kill instead of 16/15/14.
lvl 1 weapons will have no effect against uncarapaced skulks while lvl1 armor will increase your marines practical life by a whopping 50%, which is why you should go for the lvl1 armor first. Lvl 2 armor doesn't do anything against skulks, but it helps against acid rockets, which is why you want it when the 2:nd hive goes up.
Basically, go for lvl1 armor, then keep researching weps until they get the 2:nd hive (which they shouldn't).
Also, unless you attack their resources ferociously you will probably lose. It is my experience that 2:hive aliens with 'unlimited' res will win against any level Marines in teh long run.
Also you said that you are turret farming places. Armor upgrades doesn't help turrets at all, but if you get level 3 weapons those turrets are actually pretty good. If your weapons are at level 0, few carapaced skulks can take out 4-5 turret pretty easily.
In the first minute or 2, those aliens won't have carapace. The marines objective should be not to let them have it afterwards.
My two cents.
What happens if marines lock down 2 hives early with phase/mines and aliens can't break it? No fades, which means no win.
If aliens can get two hives secured and locked down, to get fades, they deserve to win. Far as I'm concerned, the game is still "First to two hives = win." Of course I'm being real IN GENERAL. If marines did something like supertech to JP + wep1/2, AND they were skilled, then maybe they'll take one hive down while the other is going up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->how much damage does a turret do? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha, I thought everyone would have this link by now.
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104estats.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104estats.htm</a>
Turrets do:
Level0 23
Level1 25.3
Level2 27.6
Level3 29.9
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One weapon upgrade goes a long way to securing the faith of your troops, and personally, I don't care one way about the numbers, if I get weapon upgrades, I feel safer no matter how many men are around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh man this is the reason why I should read the whole thread before saying anything. Haha level 1 weapons early does nothing. It just makes me sad that the commander researched that first. I don't mind if he isn't tech rushing and researches it later in response to carapace, but as a start build its a definate NO-NO!
if u turtle in ur base.... wont they get three hives??? -_- unless u relocate...
i never said first, but it REALLY makes the men out there in the dirt feel like they are more powerful, and gives them some faith in the weapons they use
Well usually when you get your weapons to level 1 aliens already have at least one DC. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
That hit one out of 5 bullets and are easily destroyed by strafing skulks and can leave open BIIIGG blind spots in the turret factory which makes turrets USELESS. And they can't hit anything moving faster than a Gorge <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The thing is, is that you DON'T just "turtle" in your base. You expand but only to one hive. Most often alien teams (in pubs) will let the marines have the one hive and work on defending the other empty one.
As for armor upgrades not helping the turrets, the key of this plan is that the hevs dont die! the light armors don't matter, and the turrets are just their so that a fade cant run up to the phase gate and melee the hev armors when they come through. As for level 1 upgrades, it doesn't make any differnse unless you are fighting gorges or fades.
As for hev armor for defense, it works. It doesn't matter if you are slow, you are slow if you have an HMG! Defenders don't have to kill the fade, they just have to make it run away. For example,
-Fade + lerk attack one of your farms. (from a distance)
-Comm shouts out "the base at (where ever) is under attack!"
-Hev armor phase gate to that location
-The hev with a gl fires into the umbra, the fade and lerk eather die, run away, or run forward and get cut down by hmg fire and turret fire.
-Hevs then take out their welders, heal eachother, heal the buildings, move on.
Also, some light armors may be there and they are fast enough (with their lmgs) to run down the fade and finish him.
Comaired to many of the rush plans and 2 hive lock downs, this plan is much slower and doesn't need much communication. You don't need to be running your troops around everywhere and ording them to hold hte hive. You just got to take some res nodes and let your hev armors keep the fades away.
This kind of tactic is just a reaction to all the "make or break" plans out there. Plans like relocation and jet/hmg rush are good (i'm not hating on the jet rush) but if they fail (which they do) you have totaly lost.
But anyways, there's nothing much more annoying than marines trying to relocate somewhere (eg. processing) at the start of the game, failing, then F4ing. I mean what's the freakin point?? Maps that can have the outcome basically decided in the first minute of the game need tweaking... and well, they are in 1.1..
Ok YOU NEED WEAPON UPGRADES. The skulks will have carapace, it takes alot of lmg shots to kill them (7+6=13x2(-99%)=<b>26</b> at lvl 0 lmg) and you are guarented to miss atleast a few shots, plus this is only vs. 1 skulk, it would be very hard to take out any more. Get lvl 1 armor, then tech up to lvl 2 weapons, by then they should have the second hive going up. Now you get lvls 2-3 armor upgrades. Now they should have fades. Finish it off with lvl 3. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone who completely arseholed me when I faded him told me that a triple upgraded pistol can take out a fade with one clip - as long as you get a few headshots in. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeh, my experience with HA is similar. They die to skulks with lerk/fade backup really fast. But wait till you have THAT much res? I almost always have problem recuring res nodes <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW lvl1 Wpn upgrade means cr@pall on LMG. Whereas lvl1 Amr buys you a bit more time. Moving marines die too easily when ambushed...
Heh! Since there is no location damage then that guy was really stupid. Anyway, on the topic of res nodes, you grab them at the start of the game, use marines to defend them at first, then turret farms with phase gates. Once you got them you start defending. As for hev armor dieing from skulks/lerk/fade attack, those must have been some crapy marines or some skilled aliens. (odds are they didn't have the right guns, hev armor with a lmg is almost totaly useless). A hmg will rip apart a skulk, since hev armor lets someone take about 6 or so bites there is no way a skulk will be able to kill a hmg/hev armor marine. The bigger worry however if fades with umbra support. This is why giving hev armors GRENADE LAUNCHERS is required. Grenade launchers can counter umbra. And the rest of the time the GL hev armors can just keep their teammates welded.