Are Things Getting Lame?
Nupi
Join Date: 2002-12-16 Member: 10898Members
Join Date: 2002-12-16 Member: 10898Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Ingame, so called stratetics or tactics.</div> Lately i have expirienced, some <b>very</b> unpleasent games as kharaa!
It's disturbing me that some commanders are sort of using Kharaas only problem as an advantage, slow spawning in big servers.. Most of the time ns_eclipse is the map where marines are doing stuff like:
1. Small group of marines is wasting everyone who spawns, so the rest of the team can secure the two hives. Thats not really a lame tactic, but it feels wrong..well, slightly lame to be honest.
2. All the marines are at the hive..but they just wait for hmg's and dont bother to shoot the hive. I think this is extremely lame.
How can you counter tech rush as kharaa?. Even if we manage to destroy the buildings, once they have researched them, we cant do nothing after it.. even if we take down the structures.. On big servers marines are extremely powerfull even with 1 resource nozzle. eh.. the only doorway in readyroom is the "marines" which is always full of people.
Recent rushes @ server which can hold 26 players:
1. shotgun rush.
2. lmg rush.
3. techrush, in the first 15min everyone gets hmg/jp.
You cant really stop marines when 13 skulks come againts 13 marines spraying bullets at every direction. Well, if you have expirienced lame games lately, i'd like to hear.. To be absolutely honest, i didnt enjoy those games at all, not in any level but the marines sure did.
The other thing i like to point out, something is changing among us (not including everyone, just a feeling). I mean for example when you ask for help ingame, you usually get it, but way too late..are we forgetting that its suppose to be teamplay?, because most of the kharaa skulks spread around the map.. when the hive gets attacked by group of marines nobody gets there in time. Thats my thoughts, so if you have expirienced bad games as kharaa, or bad teamplay, feel free to share <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I hope we can learn something.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> *help me!* <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's disturbing me that some commanders are sort of using Kharaas only problem as an advantage, slow spawning in big servers.. Most of the time ns_eclipse is the map where marines are doing stuff like:
1. Small group of marines is wasting everyone who spawns, so the rest of the team can secure the two hives. Thats not really a lame tactic, but it feels wrong..well, slightly lame to be honest.
2. All the marines are at the hive..but they just wait for hmg's and dont bother to shoot the hive. I think this is extremely lame.
How can you counter tech rush as kharaa?. Even if we manage to destroy the buildings, once they have researched them, we cant do nothing after it.. even if we take down the structures.. On big servers marines are extremely powerfull even with 1 resource nozzle. eh.. the only doorway in readyroom is the "marines" which is always full of people.
Recent rushes @ server which can hold 26 players:
1. shotgun rush.
2. lmg rush.
3. techrush, in the first 15min everyone gets hmg/jp.
You cant really stop marines when 13 skulks come againts 13 marines spraying bullets at every direction. Well, if you have expirienced lame games lately, i'd like to hear.. To be absolutely honest, i didnt enjoy those games at all, not in any level but the marines sure did.
The other thing i like to point out, something is changing among us (not including everyone, just a feeling). I mean for example when you ask for help ingame, you usually get it, but way too late..are we forgetting that its suppose to be teamplay?, because most of the kharaa skulks spread around the map.. when the hive gets attacked by group of marines nobody gets there in time. Thats my thoughts, so if you have expirienced bad games as kharaa, or bad teamplay, feel free to share <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I hope we can learn something.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> *help me!* <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
2 more and Marines just cant loose.
4 less and aliens should win.
Oh yah just played a strange game, where a single jp/hmger secured both hives while the rest of the team rambos.. extremely retard tactic but it's working great, i think i'm trying it next time.
I've been thinking, how long will people play this unbalanced game? I for sure know that the clan scene in Scandinavia is dying....
IMO playing on a Voogru server and saying that it's 50-50 doesn't prove anything since it changes too much stuff in the game.
I really hate that plugin (how it is now), it defeats purpose of silence, cloaking, and sneak attacks in general. If it were to be incorporated into NS play, I would ask that it cost alot. I mean <b>alot</b> when I say it. 125 or so. Just to make sure that the aliens at least have 2 hives when it is available, or that marines have a disadvantage (ex; no other research completed due to wasted res). Or make either it, or visual tracking available and not both. Not to offend whoever designed it, I like the idea somewhat, but it just isnt balanced now because it does not cost anything.
As for winning, it does all depend on server, not so much the plugins, but the people playing there. Some people are good at both teams, as i have said before. [end post]
--=== off topic side note===--
Marines win alot because of lame JP/HMG rush on some servers.
Some people call that skill, I call it monotony. When you find a way to win, it takes no skill to pull it off repeatedly.
Whoa! Hold yer horses. With 10-11 players on each side I don't se how marines could lose other then due to extreme incompetence. We have an 18 player server (that's 9 on each team for you who don't like maths) and I would say it is Marine biased already.
Not massively biased mind you, but enough. Right now the Marine/alien win ratio is about 60/40. I would say that the game is balanced for public play at 7-8 players per team. 9 is *just* over the edge. The reason we still have it for 18 is just that we don't want to keep more players out (it's full most of the time) and, well, the more the merrier.
I guess the numbers are relative to the general level of players on the servers. Two bad teams 8vs8 will almost always result in an alien win (unless there is a newbie/multiple gorge), with good players it will be even, and with "elite" players it will be in favor of the marines.
I commed on a 22 player server once and my first thought was: "Whoa.. this is a lot of res comin in, I don't see how we could lose this". And we didn't. I stopped playing on the larger servers just because there is absolutely zero challenge if only half the marines are semi-competent, and as Khaara it's just pointless unless you like waiting to spawn most of the time.
2 more and Marines just cant loose.
4 less and aliens should win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, at 8+ the res come twice as fast and give a distinct advantage to the marine team.
Ravlen
Our server is rarely occupied when we first connect to play and as a result my friends and I end up playing 1v1 probably 2 or 3 times a day. We've made 1v1 an artform. There are so many possible strategies to use, and over time we've found counters and counter-counters to each of them. Aliens won a lot at first, then Marines started winning more, now its swinging back towards aliens again. Most people laugh off 1v1 but if you haven't taken it seriously and tried it you really are missing some of the most intense NS action. I've seen a wider variety of tactics tried in 1v1 than in normal sized games.
The only problem with 1v1 is when someone joins right in the middle and throws off the balance (1v2 with people who know how to play small games is totally unfair).
Of course, all bets are off with 1.1, we'll have to go back to scratch and rework all our strategies.
Aliens should never lose a 1v1, I didn't even think it was possible to? :O
Aliens should never lose a 1v1, I didn't even think it was possible to? :O <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a pretty common attitude of someone who hasn't played a lot of 1v1. Or else you have achieved a higher level of 1v1 perfection than i have. In the case of the 2nd, please stop by my server and play me so I may improve my game. If however you have not achieved 1v1 enlightenment, please read the rest of my original post. Yes its very possible for aliens to lose 1v1.
I deffinately thing that as the number of players grows aliens should respawn slightly faster
Ok, so maybe i don't knit, but I could have... The last big game i played in I spent at least 90 seconds in spawn queue every time I died. Sometimes it was almost 3 minutes.
Ravlen <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, I remember back when Aliens used to win on that server more often than not. Then cru and I left for a while, people started learning Audible Motion tracking, Tmp3z left, and boom.... Yea...
Well I'm glad my server has seen a good ratio <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good to hear, we need more devoted players <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Aliens, on the other hand, if 2 hives have been locked down and fully secured, a lot of resources will get you some pretty chambers and a lot of Lerks, but it really doesn't do any good.
1.1 of course will change the whole hive lockdown thing, but, as for right now, I see marines win more often in public servers, which is really ****.
2 more and Marines just cant loose.
4 less and aliens should win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
umm... 4 less would make it a 6v6.. and that is clan match size.. yet marines always win <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
You <b>could</b> say that your "hive is dying..." <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You can stop JP/HMG rushes. Don't let them have res and don't do that stupid build order that every "experienced" gorge thinks is the right one. Which build order am I talking about? This one: res d d d res res hive.... or res res d d d res hive. Or any variation of those. Thats why hives get jetpacked so easily. Get a res or 2, get your team lvl 3 D asap (very important), Then start putting offense chambers INSIDE the hive. OMG there is nothing i hate more than seeing some gorge put a WOL at an entrance that doesn't even over look the hive. JPers see this, laugh and fly over them without a scratch. Also you'll need 1-2 lerks that STAY in the hive. A second hive is NOT a priority. Keeping the one you have is your main priority. Once you have your hive defended, expand outward while the rines are occupied. Go with some lerk/skulk backup to deal with rambos. Set up defenses at that hive first, cap another res or 2, then pu up the hive. Defend it the same as the first hive. Lerks and all. Also if you rush the base, always hit the armory, it'll hit em the hardest.
Now both of these tactics are pretty lame in a game with 8-9+ per side. The first is lame because you can totally outspawn the aliens and the second is lame because you get 3 res per tower per click instead of 2. You can have 6 people guard 1 res node and tech up easy.
You gotta scout to see what their strat is. If you see an arms lab early on and no obs/phase, they are most likely going JP/HMG. If you do see an obs phase and see them taking a hive imediately switch to your old build order and get that hive up quick. All their res will be spent on useless turrets at maint while you all camp comp core and put the hive up.
"Why don't we have a game where the entire team can be great players, but if the commander is fairly inexperienced they all loose"?
Most of the other people in the room would try and think of a way responsability could fall on atleast two poeple, rather than one.
Imagine if we had two people in the role of commander (one field commander perhaps?) it would cut down "Marine-losses-because-of-****-commanders" by half (potentially)
You people seem to have forgotten a month or two ago when everyone was bitching about how Aliens were winning too much and Marines suck, blah blah. What happened to that? Oh, wait, people realized that if you give them a chance early game, Aliens win.
So Marines have a choice. Take the game early on, or let Aliens win slowly. Hmm...
That paragraph makes no sense. Why would people realising how to win as aliens, stop them rambling about how aliens always win? Do you mean "<b>ONLY</b> if you give them a chance early game"? *confuzzled*
Two hive lockdown sucks when you have almost all the res nodes on the map anyway.
Wait for v1.1... I'll bet on something big that it will be more about the res nodes (cause the abilities will be dependent on hives, but the aliens you can evolve to wont), and team scaling will be more balanced.