A Begining Strategy That Works For Me

spiffjbug · April 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">short starting strat</div> I dont command often, I find that on the server that I play on almost always someone else wants to command, but when I do I always use this begining statagey

Infantry portal then Armory then Arms Lab Then Armor upgrade 1

I find that this gives my marines a big advantage in the early game

I dont like spending 45 res in the begining for motion tracking I like to wait until i get 4 or 5 res towers up before I spend that much on an upgrade that might not help everyone.

Let me know what you all think

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

sounds good, what do the guys who work under you think?

krapht · April 2003

I like getting motion. Not only does it give you wallhax but obs also opens up distress beacon. armor 1 lets your rines survive one more skulk bite, but imo if you know that there is a skulk waiting for you - the preparation and knowledge is much better than some extra hp.

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>armor 1 lets your rines survive one more skulk bite, but imo if you know that there is a skulk waiting for you - the preparation and knowledge is much better than some extra hp</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

it isn't the extra hitpoint that matters, it is the room for error. nobody is perfect, and the ability to mess up ONCE as opposed to NEVER is really quite a change. It's like tripping over your own feet, it happens, armor 1 lets you have a chance to recover.

XCan · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asal The Unforgiving @ Apr 29 2003, 07:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>armor 1 lets your rines survive one more skulk bite, but imo if you know that there is a skulk waiting for you - the preparation and knowledge is much better than some extra hp</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

it isn't the extra hitpoint that matters, it is the room for error. nobody is perfect, and the ability to mess up ONCE as opposed to NEVER is really quite a change. It's like tripping over your own feet, it happens, armor 1 lets you have a chance to recover.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
While MT makes sure you will never trip... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

The_Gunslinger · April 2003

MT is almost worthless (except for seeing Skulks FAR away from you, which would be pretty worthless still...) there's a little something called sound to help ya out...

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The_Gunslinger @ Apr 29 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> MT is almost worthless (except for seeing Skulks FAR away from you, which would be pretty worthless still...) there's a little something called sound to help ya out...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
agreed, but in response to
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>While MT makes sure you will never trip... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
That is not what i meant by trip...i meant making a mistake in combat, and getting hit when you shouldn't.

CEldin · April 2003

I like MT because if the skulk is in melee distance then your pretty much dead anyway. MT maxemizes your advantage, Range.

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

you can hear one well before they are in melee range....works as well.

Church · April 2003

MT also helps the COMM out a lot. He can see every single alien movements...so he can get the big picture. Besides, it can helpy ou make tactical decisions as well.

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

agreed, but as i'm no comm, i cannot argue that point. i speak only as a grunt

evilops · April 2003

I comm a lot, and as comm MT is awesome for getting the "big picture" and making real-time strats and pre-emptive defense/offense.

As a grunt, because I'm used to assessing the "big picture" I guess, and because I like to be the point man/path clearer/fatty hunter, MT would also be my first upgrade of choice. So if you know the maps well you can tell if there's a skulk about to chomp on a res node 2 rooms away before the comm tells you, you can be very stealthy if you need to be, hunting gorges is 10x easier.. etc etc etc

But if you're going for a tech rush then armslab -> armour upgrade would probably be better. Arms lab leads to Proto lab (teching up) whereas Obs leads to Phases (expansion/subbases)..

Kazyras · April 2003

The comm gets his MT by just getting an observatory up... the MT upgrade gives the same to the marines.

I'm pretty sure I see blips before researching MT when I command.

OzzKloz · April 2003

This one comes down to personal preference of the comm. I suppose you could do a vote to see what your 'rines want but that just wastes time. Honestly, i go for mt first most of the time, and the experienced players are always the first to say, <span style='color:yellow'> "hey, sweet, thanks comm!"</span> (considering that they had been wondering wth you did with all that res)

I find mt to be more beneficial to me as a fighting comm (its the pubs, sometimes you just gotta get out and fight). Either way you go, you're gonna need resources. That is the main thing that I don't think many comms understand. Capping as many rts as you can is almost always a sure guarantee of a win, and a fun one at that (hmgs, jps, HA, etc). And if you manage to take a hive, then its even more fun (for the marines, obviously <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> )

I like the point meatshield brought up:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> MT also helps the COMM out a lot. He can see every single alien movements...so he can get the big picture. Besides, it can helpy ou make tactical decisions as well. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
soooooo true! just one example: i was comm on eclipse, and decided to assault keyhole (which happened to fail spectacularly do to messed up wps, well organized aliens, etc). As this attack was failing, i saw on my minimap that EVERY single alien was over defending maint hive, and quickly issued orders to all my respawning marines to take the back way into cc hive from eclipse hive. <span style='color:red'> boom</span>, phase up. <span style='color:red'> boom</span>, mines (fades not up yet), <span style='color:red'> boom</span>, tf and 5 turrets, <span style='color:red'> boom boom boom</span>, sieges take that hive down! booyah, gg, thank you mt, quick thinking, and a little teamwork.

CEldin · April 2003

Another thing with MT is that on relativly small games (6-8 people each side) you can send a potentially devastating attack with little to no effort. You see aliens all around one side of map (like they are on maint/CC side of Eclipse), and you equip 2 guys with HMG ON FOOT, and have the other 4 or 5 follow. Attack the empty base, GG.

If only this was done more, it would win SO many games <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

Well, i don't know about you guys, but it always seems to me that comms hate it when grunts do thier own tactical thinking. For some reason, if i so much as squeek about a possibility, the comm gets mad. so i sit, and follow orders (sometimes....see previous posts for details on my other actions) until we lose. i don't have a problem with losing, it's fun sometimes. But i can get by without MT, and if the comm has more brilliant plans, it isn't required yet. addmittedly intelligence is important, and can swing the game, but early on you may just need something else. fine by me.

evilops · April 2003

I like it when marines do their own tactical thinking. Takes some load off my head and as long as they still follow orders when needs be then it normally benefits the team greatly.. smart marines who can think about the best paths/areas to attack etc for themselves without micromanagement = a good thing.

With the motion tracking for commander b4 researching thing... it's not really mt, they only show up as blips when they're in LoS of marines, or in range of the obs... I think. Buildings in range of the obs always show up as blips.

Can't wait for 1.1... it sucks how red/blue dots for enemy/friendly buildings stay on the minimap (as comm) after being destroyed. Gets really confusing later in the game when it just ends up a mush of dots that don't actually mean anything <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

OldManRipper-nC · April 2003

Y'all are arguing "which is best" while you should be considering "hey that's viable too!".
This is a dynamic RTSFPS game. It really isn't up to you how the strategy works out. If your opponents get on a wall and SIT STILL then 95% of marines will just run right by, and motion tracking only works in a frontal arc. Armor is great but then you really have to help out your team by watching them wherever they go, letting them know if a skulk or gorge is nearby using your overhead sound advantage. The worst part about both of these strategies is that your first buildings you put up are totally defenseless with a huge resource sink. Killing an OBS is only 25 but it only takes what, 10 chomps? Arms labs are hardly better and a whopping 45 when they go down. Sure, mine this, mine that... wall this, avoid that.
Essentially, your strategy will fail/succeed depending on who you are fighting, how experienced they are in the class they are playing, and how many times they turn on the "OMG UBER "elite" haX of DOOooomM!!!11 O.o"

-OldManRipper

ZERG · April 2003

Here are my options:

Small Games (Gorge Huntin')
IP > Amory > OBs > MT

I can't always see how good my marines will be in a small game, but if they at least listen to where I tell them where the gorge is, the game is in the bag! I only need one vet player to actually do this tho. In large games, the probability of running into skulks is too high for gorge huntin'.

Medium-Large
IP > Amory > Armslab > Armor 1

Get that extra hit straight off the bat to help with early rushes and just plain verstatile upgrade.

As you can see all start builds always end in an upgrade. Upgrades = good.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><<<Some stuff this way..... Sure, mine this, mine that... wall this, avoid that.
Essentially, your strategy will fail/succeed depending on who you are fighting, how experienced they are in the class they are playing, and how many times they turn on the "OMG UBER "elite" haX of DOOooomM!!!11 O.o"</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

... if your team sucks, no strategy will work ...

Paq · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The_Gunslinger @ Apr 30 2003, 02:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> MT is almost worthless (except for seeing Skulks FAR away from you, which would be pretty worthless still...) there's a little something called sound to help ya out... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well the little thing called sound doesn't help you, if you are in to a room where are many entrances. You will hear the sound, but you can't know exactly where those sounds are coming from. With MT, no problemo.

And if there is a skulk waiting you somewhere, for example in atmo at ns_bast, the sound doesn't help you at all. With MT, if that skulk moves just even an inch, you will immediatelly see his hiding place.

IMO the MT is the most important upgrade which marines can get.

Turkey2 · April 2003

I find that with motion I tend to kill at least twice as many skulks. Not to mention its easier to find out which one is the gorge when you got a slow moving blip, I use sound too but all too often people are using the voice chat and or spamming it. The armor upgrade lets you survive ambushes better, but lots of times motion has helped with that too cus a lot of skulks make the mistake of repositioning which doesnt make sound but shows up on motion. And it definitely helps the comm. which in turn can help his marines if he is following a particular group doing something important. Knowing well in advance where the rush is coming from is very advantageous.

Asal_The_Unforgiving · April 2003

ok, after reading what you've got in here, i'm forced to agree with ZERG!!!
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As you can see all start builds always end in an upgrade. Upgrades = good.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
upgrades help EVERY guy out there, and depending on the guy, it is more or less helpful depending on what you upgraded. in pubing, it is really hit or miss, and it doesn't matter too much what you get as you don't know many of those under you. but if a marine with his face in the dirt sees an upgrade go up early on, you can bet he'll give you some slack when you need it. I mean, hey....he can't be all bad...

spiffjbug · April 2003

One of the main reasons that i dont get mt first is because as a commander i dont use it much(shame on me i know), but as asal the unforgiving said, when marines see that they get upgrades right away they almost always cut me some slack later in the game. And the game is much more fun when your marines are not whining for things in the game.

Madsy · May 2003

Armor level 1, doesnt make you stronger against skulks; you still die after two bites.
Armor level 2 does though.

Motion tracking is extremely useful. Not only does it make the marines more relaxed and confident, it also helps the commander (as mentioned above)

evilops · May 2003

Armour level 1 actually leaves marines with 12hp after 2 bites, so unless they get 2 parasites in em as well or take a bad fall, they have enough for a 3rd. Think of it like cara lvl 1 for marines really: for aliens it gives them 55% increase in number of lmg bullets, for marines it gives them a 50% increase in number of chomps.

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asal The Unforgiving @ Apr 29 2003, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you can hear one well before they are in melee range....works as well.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not if, as I usually do when playing skulk, they upgrade to add silence to their repertoire. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Asal_The_Unforgiving · May 2003

actually, i haven't recently seen silence in use...not where i play. and anyway, i'm not saying ignore MT, just you don't need it RIGHT AWAY. by the time you have silence, i should have MT.

ThinG · May 2003

pittyfull attempt to get back on the general topic (apart from bloody MT):

add some mines to it for defense at base

I like it, rines with armour are very hard to kill for skulks without any kind of upgrade (I can know, I spend 99% of my games as skulk)

A Begining Strategy That Works For Me

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