Frustration Of A New Player
DoDHeadHunter
Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15903Members
Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15903Members
Hi guys,
I just installed NS tonight and I have to say, my first games were a little frustrating.
The manual wasn't very helpful because it seems more story-oriented than informative on actual play.
I've glanced over some of the posts attempting to help players like me, but I've got some fundamental concerns with them:
1) "New players should start as a Marine": GREAT idea - tell that to the server admins that require all players select "Random Team", or ones that won't let me join Marines because that team already has too many players. I don't exactly have all night to hop from server to server <i>hoping</i> to find one that I can play Marines.
2) For more experienced players: Have you actually seen the Aliens have a chance in this game? I honestly wouldn't know. My first experience of this game was as some kind of biting alien. I had no way to get close to the Marines and my only kills were against those who were clumsy or unfortunate enough to stumble close to my jaws (in other words, players as inexperienced as myself). It was like playing a game of DoD where one side is Axis, and the other side are dogs. Maybe, if you get lucky, you can become a dog that shoots bees out of its mouth when it barks... but first you'll have to get killed a few dozen times or something.
I'd heard a lot of great things about this mod - and I really <i>want</i> to like it. But it's only managed to pi$$ me off so far. Flame me if you want, but that won't help to reinforce the idea that this mod is worth my time.
So what is a n00b like me supposed to do? I'm not new to online gaming but this just seems ridiculous.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just installed NS tonight and I have to say, my first games were a little frustrating.
The manual wasn't very helpful because it seems more story-oriented than informative on actual play.
I've glanced over some of the posts attempting to help players like me, but I've got some fundamental concerns with them:
1) "New players should start as a Marine": GREAT idea - tell that to the server admins that require all players select "Random Team", or ones that won't let me join Marines because that team already has too many players. I don't exactly have all night to hop from server to server <i>hoping</i> to find one that I can play Marines.
2) For more experienced players: Have you actually seen the Aliens have a chance in this game? I honestly wouldn't know. My first experience of this game was as some kind of biting alien. I had no way to get close to the Marines and my only kills were against those who were clumsy or unfortunate enough to stumble close to my jaws (in other words, players as inexperienced as myself). It was like playing a game of DoD where one side is Axis, and the other side are dogs. Maybe, if you get lucky, you can become a dog that shoots bees out of its mouth when it barks... but first you'll have to get killed a few dozen times or something.
I'd heard a lot of great things about this mod - and I really <i>want</i> to like it. But it's only managed to pi$$ me off so far. Flame me if you want, but that won't help to reinforce the idea that this mod is worth my time.
So what is a n00b like me supposed to do? I'm not new to online gaming but this just seems ridiculous.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
sorry i cant be more specific, but it IS 3 am.
Depends on how big server you play. If there are more than 8 players on each side, if marines have a good com and pretty good team, they usually wins against a good alien team.
But, if there are under 6 player on each side, aliens usually wins. I'd say that the 6vs6 or 7vs7 games are the most balanced ones.
And well it's all about team work at both sides. If marines go to solo and just run around the map, they will lose, but when they stick together, aliens can't solo as much anymore. So then the aliens have to attack in groups too. And the power of carapaced skulk rush is devastating. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hi guys,
I just installed NS tonight and I have to say, my first games were a little frustrating.
The manual wasn't very helpful because it seems more story-oriented than informative on actual play.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, welcome to Natural Selection. And I totally agree with you about the manual, you're much better off looking in the Marine and Kharaa Strategy forums for any sort of useful information.
<!--QuoteBegin--HeadHunter+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HeadHunter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
1) "New players should start as a Marine": GREAT idea - tell that to the server admins that require all players select "Random Team", or ones that won't let me join Marines because that team already has too many players. I don't exactly have all night to hop from server to server hoping to find one that I can play Marines.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had the exact same problem when I first started playing. I eventually decided that larger servers (18 players plus) were better for this as I seemed to have better luck getting onto the marine team. You can also do what I did when I first started and bind a key to the command "/jointeamone". (I'm guessing you know how to do this since you play DoD, if not just reply to my message or send me a Private Message and I'll help you with it.) After this is done whenever a new round starts and you're in the ready room hit your key that you've bound and you should be able to beat everyone who is running towards the actual team entrances. It's lame, but it works very well.
With me, I ended up finding a server where it seemed that I had a better chance of being able to go marine consistently and I just stuck with it. I'd also recommend going to a clan server that is open to the public (or a public server frequented by clans), as you are far more likely to run into people who want to go alien, and who know what they are doing (having good commanders is essential to learning the game in my opinion).
So when you are able to get on the Marine team here are a couple of things to keep in mind:
- Never ever go alone, when you spawn in, wait for someone else before you venture out.
- Related to above, find a player who seems to know what they are doing and shadow them. Don't get in their way, but follow them and do what they do.
- Don't go commander, don't stand around marine start asking for a better gun, you'll just make everyone mad, even if your intentions are good.
- Aliens like to hide above doorways, in rafters, and basically any place dark, where they can drop on you and chew you to bits. Become very paranoid, and always listen. You can almost always hear someone (or something) way before you will ever see them, and you'll quickly learn how to tell exactly what you are hearing.
- By default the 'e' key is for use. It lets you build things (hold it in on an unbuilt structure) as well as allows you to operate doors, lifts, the armory etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--HeadHunter+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HeadHunter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
2) For more experienced players: Have you actually seen the Aliens have a chance in this game?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah, I play on one of, if not the, largest Natural Selection servers currently operating, and we (the aliens) win all the time. In general though, the more players the game has the harder it is for the alien team to win. This could easily be (and has been) a post in itself.
<!--QuoteBegin--HeadHunter+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HeadHunter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
My first experience of this game was as some kind of biting alien. I had no way to get close to the Marines and my only kills were against those who were clumsy or unfortunate enough to stumble close to my jaws...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the skulk, and he bites things. This is a big part of the reason why Marines are recommended for new players. The starting alien class, the skulk, is very bad at attacking from a distance, horrible in fact. The aliens overall are much better in close to medium range attacking, which is bad for new players since it means you must get very close to your attacker, and in the process of getting close they will kill you.
<!--QuoteBegin--HeadHunter+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HeadHunter)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
if you get lucky, you can become a dog that shoots bees out of its mouth when it barks
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a Simpson's reference, and if so you just gained bonus points (your second set of bonus points, the first set coming from the fact that you attempted to use the manual). But those aren't bees, they are parasites. They do shoot out, but they do minimal damage and you still need to be fairly close to use them effectively.
I could keep rambling on, but this post is already long enough that most people will ignore it.
**Edited because I messed up all the quotes because of the ']' in the posters name**
let me explain.
TFC, because there are two teams and they both have objectives - capture flags, capture choke points or whatever.
DOD, because the two teams are not identical - allies and axis, marines and alien. the only difference is, the dod teams are essentially identical, while the ns teams are completely different
SI (Science and Industry) because you can research stuff and upgrade things. The difference is, the research is completely team chosen in SI, but in NS, the commander chooses the upgrades for his whole team, while the gorge chooses the "branch" of the tech tree(defence, movement, sensory), and the his team choose their own upgrades from there (defence - Carapace, regeneration or redemption). The marine upgrades are innate (ie you spwan with them) but the alien upgrades have to be re-upgraded each time you respawn.
CS, because the damage is realistic. this is not TFC, where you can survive a whole clip. With NS, it only needs about 12 - 15 bullets from the un upgraded lmg to kill a normal skulk. A single well placed grenade will kill anything below a fade instantly.
If you find it annoying, just stick with it. chances are you wont regret it.
You die alot as alien. Especially in the beginning. This is nothing to worry about since this game is mostly about resources and you don´t cost the team anything as an unupgraded skulk.
A skulk with a 6:19 K:D ratio is probably doing more for the team than a skulk with a 6:2 ratio.
It´s all about delaying the enemy in the begining as an alien. If they have to stop and kill you every other minute thats one more minute for your team to get the res they need to get more chambers and hives.
Offcourse, it´s better to kill the enemy, but you will get the hang of it sooner or later. Until then just practice your biting skills. After you get them down you can practice your ambush skills.
Thanatos
You are a newbie, not a n00b
newbie make insightfull, inquisitive posts as you, and demonstrate allround mature behaviour <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
n00bs act dumb, foolishly, withouy concern for the team yadda yadda yadda, and so on.
Seems you have ahd a bad experience in the area of servers, like all new ppl to the game seem to have
Well all I can and want to tell you atm, is:
- don't give up on this ultimate game
- I don't know if the ppl on that server like the likes of me, but they will help you if you tell them you are a newbie: Roob's NS server, come there with a serious mind, and just say you are new, they WILL explain and help you, just come there when some of the regulars are there (see the MOTD for admins etc etc)
- Aliens can kick your tooshy/behind/anything except the 3 letter word: **** (<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) so hard little man... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> you will see <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
IMO: the alien team isn't a very bad place to start out with if you are a newbie, I'm serious, alien teams can work more independantly, but hey, it all depends on the server basically, I wish you lots of luck, and maybe I'll see you ingame <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
PS: otherwise I would have written a long speech, explaining loads of stuff, but I only recently joined these forums, and as you will notice, threads like these appear every day, so I suggest you read them by searching for them with the SEARCH function, and maybe I'll see ya ingame, cos that isd the place to learn NS
NS cannot be learned in theory, it's dead 'ard practise <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
A skulk with a 6:19 K:D ratio is probably doing more for the team than a skulk with a 6:2 ratio. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's true. So don't look at your score board. In next version (1.1), there will be no scores at the aliens team anymore.
It took me about a month to learn that deaths number doesn't matter (iam an old CS player).
So if there is a turret farm, dont just run away to avoid one death. I suggest that you will just rush in there and try to find / make a blind spot behind turret factory and then "eat" all the turrets, after the TF is destroyed. If you doesn't succeed at the first try, then do it again over and over again until you succeed.
In CS, if your score board looks like 6:19, you will be laughted a lot, but in NS, many player will appreciate your "work". <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
it is quicker to die and respawn than run all the way back to a hive, heal and run al the way back again.
if your team is doing well, you will probably have healing posts near their base. Use them, they can save your life
NB this is most useful for teamwork-demanding servers, like mine.
Do drop by sometime I'd be happy to show you the ropes. Don't forget to say that you're new though, it's important to know that someone isn't doing very well because they've not been playing long as opposed to not doing well because they're cretinous (there are a lot of them around!)
Roob's *no time for muppets* NS 1.04 (CDreq)
163.1.180.217:27016
I'll be around tonight. Be warned it gets pretty busy as I only have 12 public slots (and 4 private slots)
Roo
A while back, I wrote a begginers guide to NS to help players new to the game get a grips on it.
The guide and handbook will probably become obsolete by the time 1.1 is released (which is why I'm keeping it on the side until 1.1 is released and I've had time to rewrite) but for now it is fairly useful.
A word of warning, the ones posted on the forums were betas. Although only minor changed were made in the final product, not all the numbers will be concise on the matter.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=27912&hl=newbies+handbook' target='_blank'>General Kharaa Players Guide</a>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=27021&hl=guide' target='_blank'>General Marine Guide</a>
One last notice. The General Marine Guide does not tell you how to command. That deserves an entire guide unto itself, and as I am an inexperienced commander, it would be fairly pointless for me to write a guide on the matter <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, hope the beta versions of the guide are useful to you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And if you want the finished product, I think I may have it lying around on the HD somewhere, if you can give me ample justification to look for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here is the final product, the New Players Guide To Ns, in it's entirety.
Enjoy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Leaf: Jump off a cliff
That was absolutely no help and NS isen't Starcraft for christ sake !
YES, Flayra loves Starcraft and it would be a lie to say he wasen't inspired by it
But don't go around saying theyre the same
JazzX: The bee's out of the dogs mouth's was indeed a Simpson's reference but wasen't refering to parasite seeing as he had switched subject to DoD
And to HeadHunter: Don't give up on this game !
Sure you might die a lot and sure you might die some more but that dosen't really matter
hehe
You'll get the hang of it eventually and then it'll all rule and so on and so on ( I suck at speeches )
And also NO servers will allow you to join a team with more players than the other
It's NS autobalancing and I think it kicks major butt <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hehe
Sure it's annoying not being able to go marine because everyone's clogging it up but when you learn the game the aliens tend to be funnier anyway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
sorry i cant be more specific, but it IS 3 am. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I only just started playing this mod today but I noticed exactly that! It has also frustrated me, but at least I have seen some of this game's capabilities. RTS in an FPS format? Fantastic. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It does own, but is currently sometimes marred by the overuse of certain tactics. We will see an end to those specific ones in 1.1 (though that may have its own problems, but hey it's going to ROCK anyway).
Roo
hehe
Anyway if you can't find a server where people acctually go both teams you have really bad luck
I've like never seen a server with any big team differences for more than a few min
It does own, but is currently sometimes marred by the overuse of certain tactics. We will see an end to those specific ones in 1.1 (though that may have its own problems, but hey it's going to ROCK anyway).
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have noticed that marines tend to get a humungous hankering for HMG + JP Rushes. I once got hounded down by about 3 people including my Comm for simply daring to ask: "How about some shotguns?"
I hate you. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Specifically, I hate anyone that says that this is a starcraft FPS. If it were, then protoss would always win, and there would be one set of winning build orders (Where others would cause you to die). The upgrades are also different. Oh, and you get <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->, plus a resource model that relies on one unit; the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->. Marines do not get stimpacks. They get Jetpacks though.
The first mistake many new players (N00bs and newbies sound too much like something that a 13 year old CS player would say) is that htis is starcraft. It is not starcraft.
It's pretty much like that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1.1, where are you ?
And saying newbie and n00b is perfectly fine