Marine Tactic #9: Holding Territory
OldManRipper-nC
Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13871Members
Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13871Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Results of Tactic Exploration for 1.4</div> Originally I was frustrated as all get-up about the increased cost to do anything in 1.4 after finally developing awesome strategies in 1.3. Literally, I stopped commanding and just started playing and observing what others did. I noticed a few key things about play in 1.4 that really convinced me turrets should come back in a BIG way. First off, Heavy Armor practically disappeared from the scene. For a few weeks it was more common to see multiple Onos in the Marine Start rather than mutliple HA troopers. Securing resources and holding ground really helped me to bring the TSA Mobile Tank back into action as well. Now, you might start screaming "FARMER BROWN AND HIS TURRANTS ARE HERE" but hear me out, this gets interesting.
First off, mines really hit the scene in 1.4. You would see pretty much every commander start out with the Armory, Arms Lab and 3 mine-packs setup. He would do this or face immediate ejection, much to my dismay at most people's unwillingness to experiment. This worked fantasticly until the skulks realized they could climb walls and jump on top of structures to totally circumvent the mines anyways. Marines then countered this with more mines, placed on the walls, in great frequency. Unfortunately, EVERY mine is usually placed in a key position and when removed from the overall defense picture there becomes a large, charred, "missing-tooth" visible and inviting to every skulk after that. Now for a question, and think back on this one. How many games have you played where the marines locked down two hives only to be slain by a dedicated three skulk rush to their spawn? Also, I don't really need to mention what one Fade can do to mine protected bases... so I won't bother with that. In spite of all this, mines are a viable and awesome addition to any TURRETED defensive position. Placing them on the ground around turrets and/or the TF itself greatly reduces the chance of a skulk strafe circling any structure to death.
Now, to get to MY idea rather than developed practices, here is what I have been testing to avoid the above stated dilemma. I build one infantry portal (22 res) near a corner in the Marine Start. When completed, I build a Turret Factory (20 res) behind the IP in the corner. The turret (19 res) goes on the corner of the TF and next to the IP. After this I build one of three things depending on if the Kharaa team has rushed us, if so where from, and how many of my Marines died. Build either a second IP on the other corner to compensate for heavy casualties (creating a wall around the turret factory to stop suicide skulking!), an armory centralized in an open space for easy access (don't forget to place either mines behind it or a second turret as it will have a blind spot), or expand and have your troops hold a second resource (usually my choice because it doubles your resource flow). Any of those steps take up the remaining 22-25 resources you have left in your original pool. Remember, sometimes building an Armory a little later in the start game is an extremely effective way to force your troops into heading to their assigned waypoints (i.e. second node, third node, hive X, etc). The best way to acheive this is to actually build the Armory at your second turreted expansion. Unfortunately, most Marines will mutiny on you if you do not build an Armory within the first five minutes of play, so don't push the envelope too far, not to mention you can only build Turret Farms which will eventually bog you down. The biggest plus is you already have turrets in your spawn so you don't need a designated "spawn camping *****", freeing up another rifleman for the firefights soon to occur.
Moving out of your base is essential. So is holding territory. The only way that you can hold territory is to have defenses placed there. Mines around a resource node is not defensively held territory. These are all things that 1.4 has made pretty obvious. Now, to solve this problem I once again applied my turret strategy. Using ns_nancy (my favorite map to command on) as an example, here is my typical strategy step-by-step. I first TF my base and very quickly throw a body-screen around the resource directly outside the marine spawn. As soon as that is established I send one or two flankers through the crew lockers and under the small vent that connects to the rear of Mess Hall and when they are in position I have my main force (whatever is left) open the trip-door and charge. More often than not the skulks are all watching the door and the flankers easily pick them off. Now that I have four plus marines left standing in Mess Hall I drop a TF in the corner of the table itself (just make sure it's in a corner and it's all gravy). Then, three turrets and a resource soon follow. Do not worry yourself with turret placement to cover everything. This would become too costly and you still need to expand to more nodes quickly. Now, not only did you gain the resource node(s) but you have also taken a key route to the entire map. That is what can be applied to any map and any tactic, holding key locations of travel. If the Kharaa have Wall o' Llamaed you can build a siege from one resource location that will hit the next one in line (not always, but usually). Even though it's a forty-five resource sink for you team they are going to suffer at least that much if they have 2 chambers and a resource tower within range of your gun. From there it is a matter of dedication to expansion and upgrading while making steady progression into the map untill the hives fall.
Almost forgot to mention my last point. I have come to dislike building in hives. First off, I rather enjoy letting the Kharaa think they still have a prayer by building their second/third hive. Unfortunately, they usually do not realize I have taken the node outside the hive and have the capability to siege before they even drop their first supportive structures. Also, with the ammount of resources you are squatting on by throwing down two or three turrets per node you can easily equip HA squads and send JPing scouts placing mines throughout the ventilation systems. Having both sets of advanced armor not only makes the gameplay more dynamic but it is a real morale crusher to your foes.
Note, you cannot turret farm alone and win consistently. You must upgrade your troopers basic equipments and research the advanced gear. Without these upgrades dedicated lerks and skulks can easily tear apart your expansions regardless of turret count. Remember, your Marines had to fight to get those turrets in place so that you could hold the territory and that they in turn could have their "shiny new toys". Then there is also the fact that I could have turned around many games if only I had upgraded the Armory sooner to supply Grenade Launchers to my hive-assault teams. In all, upgrade or perish.
That pretty much sums it up. I found myself losing way too many resource nodes and this is the only answer that really works. I'm not saying to build a TF at every single node, but just at the key junctions where you can funnel the skulks into your troopers field of fire. Test it out, remember to upgrade, and let the Heavy Armor and Jetpack squads abound.
-OldManRipper-nC[e]-
First off, mines really hit the scene in 1.4. You would see pretty much every commander start out with the Armory, Arms Lab and 3 mine-packs setup. He would do this or face immediate ejection, much to my dismay at most people's unwillingness to experiment. This worked fantasticly until the skulks realized they could climb walls and jump on top of structures to totally circumvent the mines anyways. Marines then countered this with more mines, placed on the walls, in great frequency. Unfortunately, EVERY mine is usually placed in a key position and when removed from the overall defense picture there becomes a large, charred, "missing-tooth" visible and inviting to every skulk after that. Now for a question, and think back on this one. How many games have you played where the marines locked down two hives only to be slain by a dedicated three skulk rush to their spawn? Also, I don't really need to mention what one Fade can do to mine protected bases... so I won't bother with that. In spite of all this, mines are a viable and awesome addition to any TURRETED defensive position. Placing them on the ground around turrets and/or the TF itself greatly reduces the chance of a skulk strafe circling any structure to death.
Now, to get to MY idea rather than developed practices, here is what I have been testing to avoid the above stated dilemma. I build one infantry portal (22 res) near a corner in the Marine Start. When completed, I build a Turret Factory (20 res) behind the IP in the corner. The turret (19 res) goes on the corner of the TF and next to the IP. After this I build one of three things depending on if the Kharaa team has rushed us, if so where from, and how many of my Marines died. Build either a second IP on the other corner to compensate for heavy casualties (creating a wall around the turret factory to stop suicide skulking!), an armory centralized in an open space for easy access (don't forget to place either mines behind it or a second turret as it will have a blind spot), or expand and have your troops hold a second resource (usually my choice because it doubles your resource flow). Any of those steps take up the remaining 22-25 resources you have left in your original pool. Remember, sometimes building an Armory a little later in the start game is an extremely effective way to force your troops into heading to their assigned waypoints (i.e. second node, third node, hive X, etc). The best way to acheive this is to actually build the Armory at your second turreted expansion. Unfortunately, most Marines will mutiny on you if you do not build an Armory within the first five minutes of play, so don't push the envelope too far, not to mention you can only build Turret Farms which will eventually bog you down. The biggest plus is you already have turrets in your spawn so you don't need a designated "spawn camping *****", freeing up another rifleman for the firefights soon to occur.
Moving out of your base is essential. So is holding territory. The only way that you can hold territory is to have defenses placed there. Mines around a resource node is not defensively held territory. These are all things that 1.4 has made pretty obvious. Now, to solve this problem I once again applied my turret strategy. Using ns_nancy (my favorite map to command on) as an example, here is my typical strategy step-by-step. I first TF my base and very quickly throw a body-screen around the resource directly outside the marine spawn. As soon as that is established I send one or two flankers through the crew lockers and under the small vent that connects to the rear of Mess Hall and when they are in position I have my main force (whatever is left) open the trip-door and charge. More often than not the skulks are all watching the door and the flankers easily pick them off. Now that I have four plus marines left standing in Mess Hall I drop a TF in the corner of the table itself (just make sure it's in a corner and it's all gravy). Then, three turrets and a resource soon follow. Do not worry yourself with turret placement to cover everything. This would become too costly and you still need to expand to more nodes quickly. Now, not only did you gain the resource node(s) but you have also taken a key route to the entire map. That is what can be applied to any map and any tactic, holding key locations of travel. If the Kharaa have Wall o' Llamaed you can build a siege from one resource location that will hit the next one in line (not always, but usually). Even though it's a forty-five resource sink for you team they are going to suffer at least that much if they have 2 chambers and a resource tower within range of your gun. From there it is a matter of dedication to expansion and upgrading while making steady progression into the map untill the hives fall.
Almost forgot to mention my last point. I have come to dislike building in hives. First off, I rather enjoy letting the Kharaa think they still have a prayer by building their second/third hive. Unfortunately, they usually do not realize I have taken the node outside the hive and have the capability to siege before they even drop their first supportive structures. Also, with the ammount of resources you are squatting on by throwing down two or three turrets per node you can easily equip HA squads and send JPing scouts placing mines throughout the ventilation systems. Having both sets of advanced armor not only makes the gameplay more dynamic but it is a real morale crusher to your foes.
Note, you cannot turret farm alone and win consistently. You must upgrade your troopers basic equipments and research the advanced gear. Without these upgrades dedicated lerks and skulks can easily tear apart your expansions regardless of turret count. Remember, your Marines had to fight to get those turrets in place so that you could hold the territory and that they in turn could have their "shiny new toys". Then there is also the fact that I could have turned around many games if only I had upgraded the Armory sooner to supply Grenade Launchers to my hive-assault teams. In all, upgrade or perish.
That pretty much sums it up. I found myself losing way too many resource nodes and this is the only answer that really works. I'm not saying to build a TF at every single node, but just at the key junctions where you can funnel the skulks into your troopers field of fire. Test it out, remember to upgrade, and let the Heavy Armor and Jetpack squads abound.
-OldManRipper-nC[e]-
Comments
Like someone's signature (I cant remember account name) "If it's stupid but works, Isn't stupid"
instead of building tf im leaning towards a couple of mine packs and an armslab -> lvl1 weaps asap. have 1 marine stay as a dedicated guard for first 5 mins and get an pg at ur 1st expansion. this means in 1st 5 mins rines do more damage. the 1 guy guarding base can kill quicker ur expansion force can kill quicker. and with the pg up and running they can get back to base and help if needed.
then secure 1st expansion with tf and a turret farm, then go for 2nd exapsion once i have 3 res towers secured (including 1 in base) i then go for tf in base with turrets and go streight for lvl2 weaps then lvl1 armor. ive found just as skulks getting lvl3 cara my rines get lvl2 weaps and pretty much squash skulks easily.. this also helps u turrets alot. too many times ive seen turret farms ripped to shreds for only 2 skulks. with upgraded weapons those turrets become mighty effective in defense. next priority is then another RT then lvl3 weaps then new research/upgrades + more rts. my fav for this is ns_caged. but beleive it would work ace on ns_nothing too. but i dont like to comm on ns_nothing for some reason that map just scares me.
turrets are great as long as u have upgraded weaps as lvl0 turrets suk at killing lvl3 cara skulks. i dont mind when comm builds tf in base at start of game as long as he knows what hes doing. i think weve all seen by now this
/comm drops tf in base at start of game
/every marine says "omg noob eject him quick"
mariens are way better at defnding then turrets, and even better if you put the hundreads of res into turtets into an arms lab.
marines souldn`t be so pathetic that they have to have mutiple other guns to protect place that have marines spawning their is the first place.
Generally I find that building turrets slows the marine teching down too much, and the aliens will have a 2nd hive.
Any competent 2 hive alien team should be able to hold off the marines...
edit: Mines alone suck. Mines with a base gaurd work rather well though.
Holding territory is always a good thing, but of course there's no point in turreting up every res node. Diversion is the most effecient way to defend nodes... if you can preoccupy the aliens elsewhere (at a hive, key choke points), each tick you're benefitting from not defending those unnoticed res nodes. Never put all your efforts into one position while the rest of the map gets taken either, you're trying to do that to the other team <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sidetracking onto the weapon/armour debate....
From <a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104estats.htm' target='_blank'>kitsune's 104e stats</a>, there's no improvement with lvl 1 weapons on uncarapaced skulks. Basically you get a tiny percentage increase in damage vs carapace (not even 10%), but compare that to lvl 1 armour which effectively increases life of the marines by 50%. And from
<a href='http://nakyveci.wz.cz/NSEcoSim.html' target='_blank'>Zubata's NS economy simulator</a> you'll see it takes about 4mins to get the 1st DC up. I don't see the point in getting the first weapon upgrade before the first armour. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (Think logically people)
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is really is too bad that there aren't enough mature people playing the game, that want to experiment. I can't tell you how many times I've been ejected or kicked from a server because I want to try out different things. People only want to play their way.
I command a lot, and I'm pretty good, I've never build a TF in our main base during the start of the round, and usually I only drop 1 pack of mines, and just have someone who I can count on to defend the base. I send the rest of the team out to Set up and guard 3 or 4 resource ndoes. In a big server, marine resources really start to add up if you can just KEEP the nodes that you have. Its a challange but in the end it seems to work for me.
The reason I never build a TF in base is, well theres that 1 pack of mines that surrounds the spawn, and the 1 guy who's defending. I do realize that a full skulk rush probably would break through my defense fairly easily. But thats the trade off. One of my main principles is, if you don't resources, you dont have upgrades, and if you dont have upgrades, your marines get slaughtered, quickly.
One of my favorite things to do is,
Say your on ns_tanith and the kharra has the Waste hive. Most of their skulks are going to be patroling around, reactor room and cargo/fusion. That leaves me 2 resource nodes open at Chemical Transport Room, and Satellite Communications Hive. Many of times, I have build those res nodes, and just left them. They stay around for a long time.
I agree with, leaving un-attened hives alone. But keeping a watchful eye on them. Some gorges just go to a hive and set up a res node, then the hive. Maybe, 1 def chamber and a offense chamber. But not a real good defense. All it would take is, 4 marines, and that hive would drop very quickly.
I'm sure I could go on and on, but thats my 2 cents
nice post
- roachems[AR]
One of the reasons I prefer turrets is that I have never commanded a scrimmage game and only play on Public Servers. Hands down, turrets are more reliable than mines are (if only the mines got up and chased the skulks, then they'd be worth it). There is also the fact that a turret does not move... that is a blessed thing... defenses defending what you want them to for a long... long time.
The other day I used this strategy on a ""elite"" server and they built sensory first because all my guys said "OMG TURRETS IN SPAWN" and "NOOB COMM" as I instructed them to. Midway construction of hive two my double siege mini-base outside in Mother utterly destroyed their Subspace structures on the first scan. Damn, it was a massacre and there were some bruised egos that day.
As far as the Arms Lab, that is my second expenditure typically. Unfortunately, I have found that this can be a larger resource sink in the beginning than turrets. First off, it doesn't have any defensive capabilities. Second, actually aquiring the resources to reach level two upgrades takes quite awhile if you rely on your soldiers to defend two external resource nodes and your base from decent skulks. Third, while the armor upgrade dramatically extends the grunt's lifespans, a turret or two in main spawn extend the lifespans of your structures substantially (thus, more grunts). Lastly, losing an Arms Lab is a huge setback (the main reason why I wanted to get away from mines/expensive structures), while you usually only lose your turrets to a well-organized attack (if not, it's gg anyways).
And has anyone actually sat down and calculated the life expectancy of a JP/HMG user in games today? Against one hive and an alien team that knows how to evolve into Lerks it's about one minute in-hive time. The fact is, most people out there get their equipment and set out to destroy the hive, single handedly. Essentially, you wave the scent of jet-fuel and burned out HMG shells under your trooper's noses and you're asking for a team full of Rambos. I hate Rambos. They die, they whine, then they blame it on you. Then, when they fail to protect those "mined" and "soldier-held" resource nodes they really get upset and spam HMG/JP COMM AND I KILL THEM! until the end of the game. Ok, /rantoff.
-OldManRipper
well tbh doesnt it get u closer to 2nd lvl weap upgrades?
-OldManRipper
Might try the tf in base idea just for kicks, and see how it goes. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Might try the tf in base idea just for kicks, and see how it goes. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If your marines can't shoot, you're screwed already, but there is never such a thing as teching too early. Also, break yourself from the mindset that you need to secure a hive or 2. Yes, you want to deny aliens hives, but it's easiest to deny them resources. An alien team that is constantly attacked by marines will end up losing a res node, a gorge, or even some defensive chambers.
Every hit that you successfully cripple them, you bought yourself another minute or 2 before a second hive can go up. That's another minute you can tech yourself and equip your marines.
In the end, your game is won by your marines, not by what territory you control. I'll take a batch of souped up marines over a locked down hive any day. Not saying I never lock down hives - I just make it a point to lock them down when I have extra res flow and my marines are able to do the job.
Typically motion tracking is my first upgrade; it provides invaluable information for me as the comm, and marines tend to love it. If they can see what's comming they're much more likely to win the battle. IMHO it's a hellova lot better for organising attacks to cripple the aliens than an extra bite or 1 less bullet is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nothing like seeing all the blue dots collect in the next room and pour out with level 3 carapace. I had a commander once give me the line "You guys have motion tracking. I have no idea why you can't kill them." Sitting at level 0/ level 0, the entire team couldn't do much for offence and defence was just as bad. Then the 2nd hive came...
Res rushing works wonders... the key to marines winning (most of the time) is offense and <i>speed</i>.. sitting back in the base ensures a slow but sure defeat.
Before carapace though the big alien advantages are ambush and marine friendly fire - a great deal of pub marines don't travel well in groups, and ambush can't be helped if they've managed to bite your feet before you see them.
-OldManRipper
-OldManRipper
Thats what I did to the aliens on hera. I took hera entrance then holo room then took the resource tower next to data core hive in processing then made sure the aliens didn't have a resource tower at archiving hive and mainly armed my marines with HAs and shotguns. Fun game. Go after the resource towers and cripple the aliens
First off, mines really hit the scene in 1.4. You would see pretty much every commander start out with the Armory, Arms Lab and 3 mine-packs setup. He would do this or face immediate ejection, much to my dismay at most people's unwillingness to experiment. This worked fantasticly until the skulks realized they could climb walls and jump on top of structures to totally circumvent the mines anyways. Marines then countered this with more mines, placed on the walls, in great frequency. Unfortunately, EVERY mine is usually placed in a key position and when removed from the overall defense picture there becomes a large, charred, "missing-tooth" visible and inviting to every skulk after that. Now for a question, and think back on this one. How many games have you played where the marines locked down two hives only to be slain by a dedicated three skulk rush to their spawn? Also, I don't really need to mention what one Fade can do to mine protected bases... so I won't bother with that. In spite of all this, mines are a viable and awesome addition to any TURRETED defensive position. Placing them on the ground around turrets and/or the TF itself greatly reduces the chance of a skulk strafe circling any structure to death.
Now, to get to MY idea rather than developed practices, here is what I have been testing to avoid the above stated dilemma. I build one infantry portal (22 res) near a corner in the Marine Start. When completed, I build a Turret Factory (20 res) behind the IP in the corner. The turret (19 res) goes on the corner of the TF and next to the IP. After this I build one of three things depending on if the Kharaa team has rushed us, if so where from, and how many of my Marines died. Build either a second IP on the other corner to compensate for heavy casualties (creating a wall around the turret factory to stop suicide skulking!), an armory centralized in an open space for easy access (don't forget to place either mines behind it or a second turret as it will have a blind spot), or expand and have your troops hold a second resource (usually my choice because it doubles your resource flow). Any of those steps take up the remaining 22-25 resources you have left in your original pool. Remember, sometimes building an Armory a little later in the start game is an extremely effective way to force your troops into heading to their assigned waypoints (i.e. second node, third node, hive X, etc). The best way to acheive this is to actually build the Armory at your second turreted expansion. Unfortunately, most Marines will mutiny on you if you do not build an Armory within the first five minutes of play, so don't push the envelope too far, not to mention you can only build Turret Farms which will eventually bog you down. The biggest plus is you already have turrets in your spawn so you don't need a designated "spawn camping *****", freeing up another rifleman for the firefights soon to occur.
Moving out of your base is essential. So is holding territory. The only way that you can hold territory is to have defenses placed there. Mines around a resource node is not defensively held territory. These are all things that 1.4 has made pretty obvious. Now, to solve this problem I once again applied my turret strategy. Using ns_nancy (my favorite map to command on) as an example, here is my typical strategy step-by-step. I first TF my base and very quickly throw a body-screen around the resource directly outside the marine spawn. As soon as that is established I send one or two flankers through the crew lockers and under the small vent that connects to the rear of Mess Hall and when they are in position I have my main force (whatever is left) open the trip-door and charge. More often than not the skulks are all watching the door and the flankers easily pick them off. Now that I have four plus marines left standing in Mess Hall I drop a TF in the corner of the table itself (just make sure it's in a corner and it's all gravy). Then, three turrets and a resource soon follow. Do not worry yourself with turret placement to cover everything. This would become too costly and you still need to expand to more nodes quickly. Now, not only did you gain the resource node(s) but you have also taken a key route to the entire map. That is what can be applied to any map and any tactic, holding key locations of travel. If the Kharaa have Wall o' Llamaed you can build a siege from one resource location that will hit the next one in line (not always, but usually). Even though it's a forty-five resource sink for you team they are going to suffer at least that much if they have 2 chambers and a resource tower within range of your gun. From there it is a matter of dedication to expansion and upgrading while making steady progression into the map untill the hives fall.
Almost forgot to mention my last point. I have come to dislike building in hives. First off, I rather enjoy letting the Kharaa think they still have a prayer by building their second/third hive. Unfortunately, they usually do not realize I have taken the node outside the hive and have the capability to siege before they even drop their first supportive structures. Also, with the ammount of resources you are squatting on by throwing down two or three turrets per node you can easily equip HA squads and send JPing scouts placing mines throughout the ventilation systems. Having both sets of advanced armor not only makes the gameplay more dynamic but it is a real morale crusher to your foes.
Note, you cannot turret farm alone and win consistently. You must upgrade your troopers basic equipments and research the advanced gear. Without these upgrades dedicated lerks and skulks can easily tear apart your expansions regardless of turret count. Remember, your Marines had to fight to get those turrets in place so that you could hold the territory and that they in turn could have their "shiny new toys". Then there is also the fact that I could have turned around many games if only I had upgraded the Armory sooner to supply Grenade Launchers to my hive-assault teams. In all, upgrade or perish.
That pretty much sums it up. I found myself losing way too many resource nodes and this is the only answer that really works. I'm not saying to build a TF at every single node, but just at the key junctions where you can funnel the skulks into your troopers field of fire. Test it out, remember to upgrade, and let the Heavy Armor and Jetpack squads abound.
-OldManRipper-nC[e]- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like your tactics.
do you know a player called MUNDU or something like that??
After that, I start build RTs. It takes a while, but after 5 minutes you have an upgraded armory and 4 or 5 RTs. I never protect RTs, because there is no point. I always send half of my marines to take a hive the aliens are trying to get, so they take the battle to the enemy ground, and my RTs stay "alive".
After you have an armory, it gets pretty easy. Just build an arms lab, an prototype and upgrade jetpacks. In 8 minutes you can do this. After jetpack is ready, send everyone to base and give them jets and hmgs. Even without the upgrades, 5 marines with jetpacks destroy an hive easely.
When I command, my games usualy takes 15 to 20 minutes. Even if the aliens build a second hive, I destroy their first in a matter of minutes. After one of their hives is destroyed, it is easy to give the marines more Jps and Hmgs to finish them.
As you´ve seen, I can win a game without even build a single TF. If I gave enought mines, there is no point in building a sentry at the marine base. And there is no point in protecting hives either, because there is no time for them to build it.
Also, I have played many games where your JP/HMG was thwarted by two lerks. It ain't that hard, and it's becoming more common. Not to mention any Kharaa team that can't kill your unprotected nodes shouldn't win anyways.
In essence, mines are a thing of the past for any Kharaa player with experience. And I'm just giving you a warning because someday you will find yourself losing over and over without knowing why.
-OldManRipper
I personally find undefended tf/turret setups easy to take out, same goes for mines. Circle strafing is your friend.
The key, however, is the cost difference. When it matters (in the beginning of the game) you want to be spending the majority of your resources on offense, or more res towers. Later when the aliens are struggling to find a hole in your forward barrier it's wise to throw a tf in base for security. By then you should have a nice res income anyways.
Sorry if this post sounds like a flame... its not. I've just been playing a few games today where randomNSplayer002 jumps in the chair and builds a tf <i>in the worst possible position in the base</i> at the start of the game.... gets a tad annoying <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*edit* and one of them said he read that putting tfs at the start was good on the forums.. lol
What I'm saying here is that average or even a bit more experienced alien players are like sheeps when they are against mines + sentrys. And people should also start using mines as half-offensive weapon when going to secure an area.