I'm guessing it was originally posted in the Vet's forum here on NS org and Lux reposted it on the NSA forums.
In fact i'm not sure if Lux should have posted it but never mind <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Apr 15 2003, 01:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Apr 15 2003, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frikk... one problem. ANYONE can sign up on another forum using the name 'Flayra', provided no one else has signed up with it first. IMO, someone just jumped on to toss out a troll.
Supporting evidence: -No mention of electrified RTs in the NS changelog -Lack of standard avatar/sig -No custom title (I mean, come ON... the admins would at /least/ give the real Flayra something like 'NS Creator' or something) -Moderately different word selection, making a statement as a confirmation, instead of the usual 'testing to see if it'll work'.
Detracting evidence: -Someone signed up with the name 'Flayra'.
Get over it, and don't get your hopes up until you see 'electrified RTs' in the main changelog as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok. Firstly, not just anybody can sign up the name Flayra at NSA as an imposter without the Staff being pretty ticked off. You can bet your booty they know its the real Flayra.
I'm pretty sure Flayra has even mentioned the Electrified RTs on IRC, and most likely he said it in #naturalselection, a public channel that anybody can access. Why would he wast the time to pop his custom avatar & sig on there? Custom Title? Bah.. As if the name Flayra isn't enough of a title? Different Word choice? Maybe Flayra feels like he can be more relaxed on those forums. Notice the lack of "rumor" and the abscence of speculation/whining posts over there.
Well, I guess you guys aren't going to be swayed in the face of a huge mountain of evidence. But, I guess you'll just have to wait for the release of v1.1 to be awed by the power of the electric RT upgrade.
Yes, I have to side with the believers. I don't think Flayra needs an ego-inflating custom avatar to post messages. They're mostly attention getting devices. Flayra barely has a custom avatar on these forums, let alone someone else's.
Minimalism > Exhibition.
EDIT: one thing I will admit though... somebody broke the NDA big time.
People are still thinking it's a forgery? I guess I closed down my thread asking for official confirmation too soon.
Still, we'll all see soon enough (Well, maybe not "soon" enough, since I think we're all a little impatient, but you know what I mean... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ), so we can wait and be proven right or wrong.
well I think this is a bit of a bad idea, considering how 1-hive aliens will have a LOT harder time taking out a turret farm if they hope to make a comeback. Well, whatever.
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Apr 15 2003, 07:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Apr 15 2003, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well I think this is a bit of a bad idea, considering how 1-hive aliens will have a LOT harder time taking out a turret farm if they hope to make a comeback. Well, whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i suspect these electrical upgrades will cost quite a bit per structure, equivalent to the price of a whole second one. meaning you shouldnt have to worry about that situation early game.
this suspiciion comes from my trust in the balancing power of flayra and the PT's
<span style='color:white'><b>Frogg2: You are not the PR guy for this mod. Releasing information, no matter what you have in your mind, is not your call to make.</span></b>
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Apr 15 2003, 07:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Apr 15 2003, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well I think this is a bit of a bad idea, considering how 1-hive aliens will have a LOT harder time taking out a turret farm if they hope to make a comeback. Well, whatever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem, sir, is that you are basing your assumptions on the v1.0 tech tree. Let me remind you that the tech tree is radically different for both sides of the conflict now. I can think of a number of ways one hive aliens could make a comeback. How about a few onos, fades, and lerks suddenly overwhemling a marine position? Hehe.
Anyhow, the point is: You don't have enough information about the new version to say that "electric TFs" aren't balanced.
The whole point of the Playtesting that is going on now is actually to make sure that things are balanced (and of course remove bugs like res towers that have massive amounts of HP).
most commercial beta game releases have one, telling the playtesters not to leak information about what is going on and how.
flayra releases what information he wants to, and the PT's are not supposed to be giving out sets of screenshots to their buddies (from there it makes it to forums around the globe)
Wasn't the information Frogg2 posted already publicly available in another public forum (Not the ns.org forums, but another public forum)? I was able to see it, and I'm not a developer, playtester, veteran, or any other privileged class.
I would post the link, but hesitate at doing so if the information listed is *not* meant for public consumption. If it isn't, then perhaps someone should remove the offending post at the other forums where what frogg2 put is shown, plus the rest of the post that is open for anyone to see?
Not trying to upset or anger anyone, just making an inquiry...
Well, I got a response from the devs at least <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I guess Spyder Monkey's response might indicate that this feature is for real. However I am still not convinced given the lack of information on these forums or the changelogs.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twilight[ChBr]+Apr 15 2003, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twilight[ChBr] @ Apr 15 2003, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wasn't the information Frogg2 posted already publicly available in another public forum (Not the ns.org forums, but another public forum)? I was able to see it, and I'm not a developer, playtester, veteran, or any other privileged class. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If that is true, then it is 99% likely to be leaked information that should not have been made public. But, regardless, what Frogg2 posted was confidential material that should not have been made public. When new info about NS is released, it is typically either a forum post in these forums, or a news post on ns.org, rr.org, or a big HL news site like PHL.
For the record, there is no official, legally binding NDA. We just all agreed to respect Flayra's wishes to keep things private and let him and MonsE handle the information dissemination.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin--Spyder Monkey+Apr 16 2003, 02:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spyder Monkey @ Apr 16 2003, 02:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='color:white'><b>Frogg2: You are not the PR guy for this mod. Releasing information, no matter what you have in your mind, is not your call to make.</span></b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As SpyderMonkey so succinctly pointed out, whether or not the information has been released or not it is <b>not</b> the job of "Veterans" or Playtesters to point out. It is down to Flayra and by proxy, MonsE.
If a Playtester were to pull the same stunt, they'd be in for what I like to euphemistically describe as a "verbal warning". Depending on severity, I'd kick them out of the PT altogether. It's entirely up to Flay what happens with the Veterans group, but he's a nice chap, so I imagine a small gnashing of teeth and a "please don't do it again" will occur.
An honest mistake has been made. Nothing to see here, move along.
One or two people commented that electrified RTs would be an unfair advantage given that kharaa RTs have no way of defending themself. I believe it would not be an unfair advantage because:
1: the cost of dropping an OC to prevent a marine from simply knifing the RT to death is less than the cost of a TF and enough turrets to cover all the blindspots.
2: the kharaa RTs are all linked via hivesight. As soon as one comes under fire, very soon a whole bunch of skulks will be there to defend the RT. Marine RTs, on the other hand, rely on the commander being everywhere at once to defend, and even then the marines just have to take the commander's instruction of "defend the RT" (say it's a WP instruction) on faith, without knowing what's really going on. The kharaa hivesight message "resource tower is under attack" and a red glowing circle is a bit more insistent, and more specific than an arbitrary "just go here, and trust me that it's a good thing to do". How many pub games do you see where the marines have more RTs than the kharaa?
It was Lux who originally posted on the NSA forums the post Flayra made in the Vet's forum here on NS org. Supernorn found it and stuck it in the webbed 1.1 official thread.
All frogg2 was doing was confirming it was originally posted here on NS org. He didn't reveal anything else.
Basically, it's lux you need to speak to, not frogg2.
<!--QuoteBegin---_Phoenix_-+Apr 16 2003, 08:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-_Phoenix_- @ Apr 16 2003, 08:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd just like to defend frogg2 if I may.
It was Lux who originally posted on the NSA forums the post Flayra made in the Vet's forum here on NS org. Supernorn found it and stuck it in the webbed 1.1 official thread.
All frogg2 was doing was confirming it was originally posted here on NS org. He didn't reveal anything else.
Basically, it's lux you need to speak to, not frogg2. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, Phoenix is right. I posted it in the stickied 1.1 thread, because the information was over at NSA, and i thought that seeing as no-one had questioned it, it would be fine to post it. After is was removed from the sticky, i thought that it was 'classified' but the information is still freely readable over at NSA. I have already linked to it in this thread, and although its a bit late, if it isnt supposed to be read, it should be removed from the NSA forums too.
edit: and maybe have a word with Lux.... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was under the wrong impression of what flayra had told us(veterans). I thought that we were free to talk about 1.1 just aslong as we didn't post in game screen shots.
<!--QuoteBegin--Greedo386+Apr 15 2003, 11:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Greedo386 @ Apr 15 2003, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Twilight[ChBr]+Apr 15 2003, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twilight[ChBr] @ Apr 15 2003, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wasn't the information Frogg2 posted already publicly available in another public forum (Not the ns.org forums, but another public forum)? I was able to see it, and I'm not a developer, playtester, veteran, or any other privileged class. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that is true, then it is 99% likely to be leaked information that should not have been made public. But, regardless, what Frogg2 posted was confidential material that should not have been made public. When new info about NS is released, it is typically either a forum post in these forums, or a news post on ns.org, rr.org, or a big HL news site like PHL.
For the record, there is no official, legally binding NDA. We just all agreed to respect Flayra's wishes to keep things private and let him and MonsE handle the information dissemination. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then this is my real question: Should we not discuss any post of potentially new information we may have read about anywhere if it was not here or rr.org or PHL, since it might be confidential information?
In other words, how are we to know (We being the general public)? Should we clear anything we read somewhere else with a moderator before posting?
Just wondering how this should be handled, since Frogg2 was only posting one entry of a list on another publicly available forum...
Comments
In fact i'm not sure if Lux should have posted it but never mind <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Supporting evidence:
-No mention of electrified RTs in the NS changelog
-Lack of standard avatar/sig
-No custom title (I mean, come ON... the admins would at /least/ give the real Flayra something like 'NS Creator' or something)
-Moderately different word selection, making a statement as a confirmation, instead of the usual 'testing to see if it'll work'.
Detracting evidence:
-Someone signed up with the name 'Flayra'.
Get over it, and don't get your hopes up until you see 'electrified RTs' in the main changelog as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok. Firstly, not just anybody can sign up the name Flayra at NSA as an imposter without the Staff being pretty ticked off. You can bet your booty they know its the real Flayra.
I'm pretty sure Flayra has even mentioned the Electrified RTs on IRC, and most likely he said it in #naturalselection, a public channel that anybody can access.
Why would he wast the time to pop his custom avatar & sig on there?
Custom Title? Bah.. As if the name Flayra isn't enough of a title?
Different Word choice? Maybe Flayra feels like he can be more relaxed on those forums.
Notice the lack of "rumor" and the abscence of speculation/whining posts over there.
Well, I guess you guys aren't going to be swayed in the face of a huge mountain of evidence. But, I guess you'll just have to wait for the release of v1.1 to be awed by the power of the electric RT upgrade.
Minimalism > Exhibition.
EDIT: one thing I will admit though... somebody broke the NDA big time.
Still, we'll all see soon enough (Well, maybe not "soon" enough, since I think we're all a little impatient, but you know what I mean... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ), so we can wait and be proven right or wrong.
Twilight
i suspect these electrical upgrades will cost quite a bit per structure, equivalent to the price of a whole second one. meaning you shouldnt have to worry about that situation early game.
this suspiciion comes from my trust in the balancing power of flayra and the PT's
The problem, sir, is that you are basing your assumptions on the v1.0 tech tree. Let me remind you that the tech tree is radically different for both sides of the conflict now. I can think of a number of ways one hive aliens could make a comeback.
How about a few onos, fades, and lerks suddenly overwhemling a marine position? Hehe.
Anyhow, the point is: You don't have enough information about the new version to say that "electric TFs" aren't balanced.
The whole point of the Playtesting that is going on now is actually to make sure that things are balanced (and of course remove bugs like res towers that have massive amounts of HP).
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/2/icon2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
but whats the nda?
most commercial beta game releases have one, telling the playtesters not to leak information about what is going on and how.
flayra releases what information he wants to, and the PT's are not supposed to be giving out sets of screenshots to their buddies (from there it makes it to forums around the globe)
I would post the link, but hesitate at doing so if the information listed is *not* meant for public consumption. If it isn't, then perhaps someone should remove the offending post at the other forums where what frogg2 put is shown, plus the rest of the post that is open for anyone to see?
Not trying to upset or anger anyone, just making an inquiry...
Twilight
However I am still not convinced given the lack of information on these forums or the changelogs.
oh wait, I am
If that is true, then it is 99% likely to be leaked information that should not have been made public. But, regardless, what Frogg2 posted was confidential material that should not have been made public. When new info about NS is released, it is typically either a forum post in these forums, or a news post on ns.org, rr.org, or a big HL news site like PHL.
For the record, there is no official, legally binding NDA. We just all agreed to respect Flayra's wishes to keep things private and let him and MonsE handle the information dissemination.
<img src='http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~mrolek/nsnuke.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
As SpyderMonkey so succinctly pointed out, whether or not the information has been released or not it is <b>not</b> the job of "Veterans" or Playtesters to point out. It is down to Flayra and by proxy, MonsE.
If a Playtester were to pull the same stunt, they'd be in for what I like to euphemistically describe as a "verbal warning". Depending on severity, I'd kick them out of the PT altogether. It's entirely up to Flay what happens with the Veterans group, but he's a nice chap, so I imagine a small gnashing of teeth and a "please don't do it again" will occur.
An honest mistake has been made. Nothing to see here, move along.
One or two people commented that electrified RTs would be an unfair advantage given that kharaa RTs have no way of defending themself. I believe it would not be an unfair advantage because:
1: the cost of dropping an OC to prevent a marine from simply knifing the RT to death is less than the cost of a TF and enough turrets to cover all the blindspots.
2: the kharaa RTs are all linked via hivesight. As soon as one comes under fire, very soon a whole bunch of skulks will be there to defend the RT. Marine RTs, on the other hand, rely on the commander being everywhere at once to defend, and even then the marines just have to take the commander's instruction of "defend the RT" (say it's a WP instruction) on faith, without knowing what's really going on. The kharaa hivesight message "resource tower is under attack" and a red glowing circle is a bit more insistent, and more specific than an arbitrary "just go here, and trust me that it's a good thing to do". How many pub games do you see where the marines have more RTs than the kharaa?
It was Lux who originally posted on the NSA forums the post Flayra made in the Vet's forum here on NS org. Supernorn found it and stuck it in the webbed 1.1 official thread.
All frogg2 was doing was confirming it was originally posted here on NS org. He didn't reveal anything else.
Basically, it's lux you need to speak to, not frogg2.
It was Lux who originally posted on the NSA forums the post Flayra made in the Vet's forum here on NS org. Supernorn found it and stuck it in the webbed 1.1 official thread.
All frogg2 was doing was confirming it was originally posted here on NS org. He didn't reveal anything else.
Basically, it's lux you need to speak to, not frogg2. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, Phoenix is right.
I posted it in the stickied 1.1 thread, because the information was over at NSA, and i thought that seeing as no-one had questioned it, it would be fine to post it. After is was removed from the sticky, i thought that it was 'classified' but the information is still freely readable over at NSA. I have already linked to it in this thread, and although its a bit late, if it isnt supposed to be read, it should be removed from the NSA forums too.
edit: and maybe have a word with Lux.... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I was under the wrong impression of what flayra had told us(veterans). I thought that we were free to talk about 1.1 just aslong as we didn't post in game screen shots.
Sorry again.
If that is true, then it is 99% likely to be leaked information that should not have been made public. But, regardless, what Frogg2 posted was confidential material that should not have been made public. When new info about NS is released, it is typically either a forum post in these forums, or a news post on ns.org, rr.org, or a big HL news site like PHL.
For the record, there is no official, legally binding NDA. We just all agreed to respect Flayra's wishes to keep things private and let him and MonsE handle the information dissemination. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then this is my real question: Should we not discuss any post of potentially new information we may have read about anywhere if it was not here or rr.org or PHL, since it might be confidential information?
In other words, how are we to know (We being the general public)? Should we clear anything we read somewhere else with a moderator before posting?
Just wondering how this should be handled, since Frogg2 was only posting one entry of a list on another publicly available forum...
Twilight