That would be kool to see some of the advanced things so PPL can se how they work. What I have done and lots of other mappers have done ( so i hear and am told to do by them ) is buld a big box, make it hollow, and put what ever you are trying to learn inside. ( add lights and a <b>info_player_start</b> so you can run-a-round and test the stuff you build! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But open source maps with explanations would be sweet if some of the better mappers are willing to produce them, such as <i>Relic25, Greedo386, ken20banks, ChromeAngel, and Andrew</i>! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
quazilinJoin Date: 2002-11-25Member: 9880Members, Contributor, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2003
Hmmmm... I think it is not a very good idea but is it just me? First of all if you are a beginner mapper the maps of ns are soo complex and big you probaply get lost in the mess of vertical and horizontal lines and you dont get anything out of it. And probaply you just want to copy paste some places to your own map but that is not very creative and you dont learn anything yourself. And first of all best way to learn is to do things and practise everything yourself. If you really want to see how everything is done in a NS map start -> ns and type "map ns_name_of_the_map_you_want_to_look_and_see_how_beatifully_it_has_been_done" Look around the map , look something special spots where you feel like that is amazing! And try to make something similiar but use more creativity and make it your own style and way. DONT COPY.
And if you want explanations and you dont understand something in the maps... <a href='http://www.google.com' target='_blank'>GOOGLE</a> lots of tutorials and help!
I have to agree with Quazilin, the possibility for a person to just copy and paste things into their own map is probally why most mappers hide in the corner from (or yell at) people who ask for the source for their maps. Soon, everybody's new map would have to have that "elite" archway, or the sweet looking hive room, turning everything into a walking cliche. Don't get me wrong, tutorial maps have their place amongst the crowd, but if an author releases the accual source to his map, the human sh33p will take it and run away with it to no extent.
The only possible good that could really come from and "open source" map pool would be "example maps" showing off special entity use, or complex architecture, creative texture examples, lighting etc. Each one having "bilboards" that provide in game/in editor text (custom textures) that people can read like a tutorial.
Good ideas would be...
1. a "map starter kit" that contains all entities needed to run an NS map, with short explainations of how to use the entities. 2. a smal map showing very basic (non-NS specific) use of func_walls, func_illusionaries, func _water etc. and func_breakables IE glass, ladders, grates, lighting overlays etc. 3. a small map with several rooms shwing of the different uses of a func_door, for elevators, buttons to open etc. 4. a small "weldables" tutorial map 5. an "architecture pre-fab" map with somewhat generic archways and halls, corners etc. 6. a map showing some creative NS texture use. 7. a map with 2 similar areas...1 with r_speeds lowered by hint and null textures and a short explaination on how it was done.
and a few other various "tutorial" type maps that arent a mappers"pride and joy" if you catch my drift...no mapper is going to want to give away what they poured thier heart and soul into, not to mention months of hard work, creativity and trial and error. Besides that I think its in your best interest to learn on your own, but something like mentioned above should help along the way.
Backup .bsp of a stoneage version of ns_complex (ns_ollj) published. <a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_ollj_22.zip' target='_blank'>http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_ollj_22.zip</a> done:
I'm working on a sample map for a Quickstart Guide article. I've already put out a request for bits of map to include, but no-one's taken me up on the offer.
I remember being a beginner in mapping. I got SOOOO excited when i found out a program to convert the .bsps to .map files.
2 things happened:
- The converted map was full of bugs - The map was too complex for me to recognize anything (i was building the cube by cube maps right then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
So, if you're a beginner in mapping, go for tutorials, ask for help and mostly WORK WORK WORK.
<!--QuoteBegin--ChromeAngel+Apr 14 2003, 04:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ChromeAngel @ Apr 14 2003, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm working on a sample map for a Quickstart Guide article. I've already put out a request for bits of map to include, but no-one's taken me up on the offer. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> numbers 4 and 7 (from my post above) seem like prime material for such a map, idea # 1 seems usefull and I imagine is just the sort of theng you mean by "Quickstart guide" Certianly something to explain the (currently non-existent) particle system editor.
If its half NS starter/half HL mapping starter, 2 and 3 could be very helpful also...and a basic example of a semi-simple trigger system.
Here is an NS example map for all you newbs, its based on one I used to test out the NS entities. It has extremely simple layout and brushwork, so that you should find it easy to disect.
<!--QuoteBegin--RPG_Jssmfulhud+Apr 14 2003, 05:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RPG_Jssmfulhud @ Apr 14 2003, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I remember being a beginner in mapping. I got SOOOO excited when i found out a program to convert the .bsps to .map files.
2 things happened:
- The converted map was full of bugs - The map was too complex for me to recognize anything (i was building the cube by cube maps right then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
So, if you're a beginner in mapping, go for tutorials, ask for help and mostly WORK WORK WORK. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I used that thing once on one of my own maps...I lost the .bsp somehow and wanted something to work with. the annoting thing is that it basically makes a bounding box of your map and fills it (the void in game) with brush..i...ness. I cant even explain what it did honestly, but when I opened my converted .bsp it was a giant block, and it re-built nearly all of my brushes in a way I could not work with (Definetly not the way I laid thme out origionaly) In the end I wouldve had to start the map from scratch because the converter did such a terrible job. I just tossed it though.
You know, I being a tfc mapper myself have found that it's a very bad idea to release a complete source of a fully functional map, ready for the compiler. This leaves nothing for the inspired minds of following mappers who (with a working source) only need to change a few key things and wind up calling thier own. I know, it has happened to me.
Instead, creative mappers will make what is called "prefabs". Hundreds of different things you can think of but either don't have the creative skill or don't want to put in the time to learn just one spacificly detailed door or bridge or whatever can be found at sites like this one. <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/PrefabLab' target='_blank'><span style='color:yellow'>Prefab Lab</span></a>
In short, stop asking for sources to completed maps. A good auther would never give up that much hard work to just anyone and would most likely insult you for asking in the first place.
Serisouly having newbies try to learn from open source maps isn't that great of an idea.
First off some maps may have stuff out of their skill level. Sure that cool looking structure is sweet but how will they learn how to make stuff like that if they don't attempt to do it from the very beginning? The best way to learn is by seeing stuff in game and try to make it from scratch. You really won't learn anything by having it already done.
How are you gonna learn about r_speeds and keeping them down if you don't do it yourself in your own map?
Most of the time I learned from making maps myself though I have converted the Hunted and 2fort map and played around with them only to scrap it later.
Comments
But open source maps with explanations would be sweet if some of the better mappers are willing to produce them, such as <i>Relic25, Greedo386, ken20banks, ChromeAngel, and Andrew</i>! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
First of all if you are a beginner mapper the maps of ns are soo complex and big you probaply get lost in the
mess of vertical and horizontal lines and you dont get anything out of it. And probaply you just want to copy paste some places to your own map but that is not very creative and you dont learn anything yourself. And first of all best way to learn is to do things and practise everything yourself. If you really want to see how everything is done in a NS map start -> ns and type
"map ns_name_of_the_map_you_want_to_look_and_see_how_beatifully_it_has_been_done"
Look around the map , look something special spots where you feel like that is amazing! And try to make something similiar but use more creativity and make it your own style and way. DONT COPY.
And if you want explanations and you dont understand something in the maps...
<a href='http://www.google.com' target='_blank'>GOOGLE</a> lots of tutorials and help!
Each one having "bilboards" that provide in game/in editor text (custom textures) that people can read like a tutorial.
Good ideas would be...
1. a "map starter kit" that contains all entities needed to run an NS map, with short explainations of how to use the entities.
2. a smal map showing very basic (non-NS specific) use of func_walls, func_illusionaries, func _water etc. and func_breakables IE glass, ladders, grates, lighting overlays etc.
3. a small map with several rooms shwing of the different uses of a func_door, for elevators, buttons to open etc.
4. a small "weldables" tutorial map
5. an "architecture pre-fab" map with somewhat generic archways and halls, corners etc.
6. a map showing some creative NS texture use.
7. a map with 2 similar areas...1 with r_speeds lowered by hint and null textures and a short explaination on how it was done.
and a few other various "tutorial" type maps that arent a mappers"pride and joy" if you catch my drift...no mapper is going to want to give away what they poured thier heart and soul into, not to mention months of hard work, creativity and trial and error. Besides that I think its in your best interest to learn on your own, but something like mentioned above should help along the way.
<a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_ollj_22.zip' target='_blank'>http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/ns_ollj_22.zip</a>
done:
(i have no clue how buggy this version is)
2 things happened:
- The converted map was full of bugs
- The map was too complex for me to recognize anything (i was building the cube by cube maps right then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
So, if you're a beginner in mapping, go for tutorials, ask for help and mostly WORK WORK WORK.
numbers 4 and 7 (from my post above) seem like prime material for such a map, idea # 1 seems usefull and I imagine is just the sort of theng you mean by "Quickstart guide"
Certianly something to explain the (currently non-existent) particle system editor.
If its half NS starter/half HL mapping starter, 2 and 3 could be very helpful also...and a basic example of a semi-simple trigger system.
2 things happened:
- The converted map was full of bugs
- The map was too complex for me to recognize anything (i was building the cube by cube maps right then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
So, if you're a beginner in mapping, go for tutorials, ask for help and mostly WORK WORK WORK. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used that thing once on one of my own maps...I lost the .bsp somehow and wanted something to work with.
the annoting thing is that it basically makes a bounding box of your map and fills it (the void in game) with brush..i...ness.
I cant even explain what it did honestly, but when I opened my converted .bsp it was a giant block, and it re-built nearly all of my brushes in a way I could not work with (Definetly not the way I laid thme out origionaly) In the end I wouldve had to start the map from scratch because the converter did such a terrible job. I just tossed it though.
Instead, creative mappers will make what is called "prefabs". Hundreds of different things you can think of but either don't have the creative skill or don't want to put in the time to learn just one spacificly detailed door or bridge or whatever can be found at sites like this one. <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/PrefabLab' target='_blank'><span style='color:yellow'>Prefab Lab</span></a>
In short, stop asking for sources to completed maps. A good auther would never give up that much hard work to just anyone and would most likely insult you for asking in the first place.
First off some maps may have stuff out of their skill level. Sure that cool looking structure is sweet but how will they learn how to make stuff like that if they don't attempt to do it from the very beginning? The best way to learn is by seeing stuff in game and try to make it from scratch. You really won't learn anything by having it already done.
How are you gonna learn about r_speeds and keeping them down if you don't do it yourself in your own map?
Most of the time I learned from making maps myself though I have converted the Hunted and 2fort map and played around with them only to scrap it later.