Odd How Two Aliens Actually Get Worse With 3:hives

Stoneburg · April 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Gorge and Lerk</div> Ever notice that Gorges and Lerks totally suck when the 3:d hive comes online? Both of them get by fat the biggest boost from the 2:nd hive (adren + web/umbra). But as soon as the 3:d hive goes up that nice healspraying gorge just want to see how many babblers he can fit in a room. Amd the Lerk... forget about the umbra, when the 3:d hive is up all Lerks ever do is sit in a dark corner and lob spores at the marines while everyone is getting cut down by LMGs and HMGs.

The 2:nd hive abilities are some awesome boosts for the team, 3:d hive just makes the *team* weaker <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

BreakfastSausages · April 2003

I hate spore, it is worthless and annoying.

EvenFlow · April 2003

Nothing irritates me more than spores and acid rockets, especially when aliens have 2 hives, 'rines are pretty much s.crewed ( no armor/weapon upgrades ) and aliens will still sit on the other side of the map spamming away, fight like a man darnit, get those claws out and get in here !!!

Anyways, back to the topic, I have to agree with you there, although once 3 hives are up my alien of choice is usually the gorge, nothing beats web + babblers, chaos I tell you, chaos... I love it
Lerks like you say just become an irritation and I can never degrade myself to such an extent to sit and spore the marine base...bah <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

Error404 · April 2003

I don't, if I'm Lerking, I fly in and umbra, hope that a few Fades see the yellow cloud and blink in and join me in munching the Infantry Portals.

Spore Cloud is for cheap kills IMHO. Babblers are a waste of time. Yeah you are right, 3rd Hive abilities to Gorge and Lerk are pretty cheap.

Paq · April 2003

Yeah, they are pretty useless.
But skulks got Xenocide <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> BOOM !!!

Skydancer · April 2003

babblers are mostly to panic newbie marines... seasoned players just aim at them and let loose two lmg shots that are enough to kill one... as a three hive lerk I'll spore the area just behind where I'm going to attack then fly there, umbra and start chewing buildings and marines who try to knife me (usually I'm alone because fades think acid spamming is better...)

Ratfire · April 2003

I really don't see how you can consider, more attacks, and the 3rd alien chamber upgrade as weaker. Sure they don't get the same level as Bile bomb, or say, ONOS!!! But they do get spore, which is a great ranged gas attack that sits for around 10 seconds wherever you shot it, doing damage to anything in the area. This is great for ripping apart emplaced marines. Plus, even at the third hive upgrade, umbra is still very usefull for the fades. By then the marines are even more powerful (hmg's/weapon upgrades) And they fades need all the protection they can get (especially those using redemption.)
It's like saying Skulks get less powerful at the third hive upgrade, of course they don't get less powerful, even though they have to sacrifice themselves for a 200/400 damage attack (marines/buildings) They are the lowest level of alien evolution, and availible at the first hive, of course their not superbeasts by the end of the game.

And gorges? Haven't you ever seen a good gorge do and advance webbing into the marine base, then throw up about 5 offensive towers and some D towers before getting out? That is deveastating.

Ratfire

Amorphous · April 2003

I dont think either of them are cheep. When i lerk at three hives (Which is pretty much all the time) I just use the spores to clear out the imidiate area or to weaken fire bases such as rr. Then i go fly like a mad humming bird and rain spikes down on them with the ocasional spore cloud on the spawns. Anyways, IMO the lerk needs the spores at the third hive to keep up with the marines because of how they shafted the lerk.

Then again, IMHO the best way to lerk is to take ceralty and regen and just spike all the marines from the ground and dodge bullets like your NEO. Mwahaha!

Mazdek · April 2003

Don't forget that at 3 hives, a Lerk with Scent of Fear is the best equipted Alien to find the last hiding Marines. Lob spore bombs into likely hiding places and see if anyone pops orange in your vision. Call reinforcements while continueing to spore them. It is a great indirect fire weapon so they don't have to be in the line of fire.

FireStorm · April 2003

Spores are good to hunt down marines. When a marine is hiding and I'm a lerk, I shoot spores at everything. I killed some jp marines like that. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

bobthemagicalfish · April 2003

babblers so owned i killed 3 ha hmg with babblers once with help from and onos but that beside the point <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

That_Annoying_Kid · April 2003

3 hive lerks are excellent attackers, becuase they can clear out marines, and then do umbra to let fades/skulks/lerks to go in and much on TF's. the sporecloud is great for clearing people out, and babblers actually make marines fear gorges, even though a gorge by itself is something to be feared.

Coyote399 · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ Apr 8 2003, 06:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Nothing irritates me more than spores and acid rockets, especially when aliens have 2 hives,  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
spores with 2 hives really annoys me too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Stoneburg · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I really don't see how you can consider, more attacks, and the 3rd alien chamber upgrade as weaker.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Of course they don't <i>technically</i> get worse. What I am saying is that the "lure" of spores and bablers will make them less useful for the team. A lerk giving 4 fades umbra in marine base is doing a lot more good for the team then one hiding in a corner spore-bombing them. Same goes for gorges who suddenly stop using their healspray and just spam babblers.

At this stage in the game it's just about cleanup anyway, 99% of the time, so it doesn't really matter, it's just annoying.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And gorges? Haven't you ever seen a good gorge do and advance webbing into the marine base, then throw up about 5 offensive towers and some D towers before getting out?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I see that all the time. Actually, I do that all the time. But.. since when do you need 3:hives for OC's/DC's and web?

I think that the <b>idea</b> behind these abilities is sound. Bilebombs in case the Marines have turtled up, babblers so that gorges to can destroy buildings, spores to get the pesky marines that are camping or hiding somewhere, xenocide so people can do (a lot of) damage while they are saving up for a better class and the almighty onos for just plowing through everything (such as ranks of HA). It's just that the two <b>most</b> teamwork oriented classes suddenly lose the incentive for teamwork and just start deathmatching.

It would be a lot quicker to finish the marines off <b>without</b> babblers and spores, because then the skulks/fades woul dget healing and umbra.

K_e_r_b_e_r_o_s · April 2003

Well we all have our own interpretations on how games should be played and how a team should proceed to playing and winning them. The thing is, these abilities are available each with its own unique purpose. Some people use them to spam, other people use them to actually become effective. Thats not to say spamming is in no way effective, just to say when spamming your attacks are more indirect and not coordinated.

With spore, its a great unentrenching tool. The Babblers are their just for personal Gorge Defense, not really meant for an offensive weapon.

I find spamming the marines is like laying down suppressing fire in Day of Defeat. Their is no cheap or cheat to victory; just that the loosing team is cheap in that they could not slow the enemy down, and cheat because they refuse to use common sense at all. A team who looses is a team who destroys itself.

Bile Bomb spamming is an excellent tool I prefer to call it "Bile Bombing" or "Balemic Teenager Fury".

AIRinc_FaReZ · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ Apr 8 2003, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Nothing irritates me more than spores and acid rockets, especially when aliens have 2 hives, 'rines are pretty much s.crewed ( no armor/weapon upgrades ) and aliens will still sit on the other side of the map spamming away, fight like a man darnit, get those claws out and get in here !!!

 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Um, if they have fades and you dont have any upgrades, you deserve to die. Babblers are to encourage Gorges to assist in the assault by webbing marines and Babblering them. Spores... Cheap kills. But i like them to flush out the last marine.

EvenFlow · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Coyote399 @ Apr 8 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Even~Flow @ Apr 8 2003, 06:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Nothing irritates me more than spores and acid rockets, especially when aliens have 2 hives, </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
spores with 2 hives really annoys me too <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I see I've tickled a nerve, you know what I mean <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

EvenFlow · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AIRinc.F|aReZ @ Apr 8 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Um, if they have fades and you dont have any upgrades, you deserve to die. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I know the you deserve to die, but not like that, get in there and claw me and fight like a man, theres not much chance of the alien dieing in any case with lvl 1 weapons. One of 2 things will happen if you get into 'rine spawn and melee

- 12 'rines pumping lvl lmg's into might kill you, good laughs for everyone, it's GG anyways

- You end up taking out everyone at 'rine spawn ending their mysery, well done, we can get on with the next round and you've just racked up a hellava lot of kills.

EvenFlow · April 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AIRinc.F|aReZ @ Apr 8 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Spores... Cheap kills. But i like them to flush out the last marine.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Great for flushing out that last marine, but remember the rest of the marine team is sitting in anticipation to see if you find him and kill him, make it interesting....parasite the bugger to death, have an Onos stare him in the face for a couple of seconds before finishing him or let Mr. Gorge web/heal spray him to death.

ZiGGY · April 2003

I can never be bothered to use more than bite2gun as a lerk anyway and I seem to do just fine.

Kazyras · April 2003

I always make it a habit to toss a few clouds of spores before going in because extra damage is always nice.

OttoDestruct · April 2003

Personally I think with NS in 1.0 the third hive is useless. If the Kharaa are able to get a third hive up, then obviously they're winning by that point of the game. By the time you could get the hive up, and onos, if the enitre team attacked instead of devoting themselves to defense of the new hive, you could just win right then and there. Now while charging through 'rines with a pwnos is VERY fun, the length of time it takes to get it is waay to long, and spores, while also fun, are much more useless compared to a lerk-fade team.

AIRinc_FaReZ · April 2003

1.0 as in 1.0 or not 1.1? If you get what i mean lol. Three hives are to end those long HA/HMG vs Fade + Lerk stalemates where both teams have too much res for their own good.

sej · April 2003

omg he insulted the babblers -

I dont agree with anything he says, babblers are cool <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

So is spores.

Dont insult 3 hive abilities, theyre the most interesting and fun to use.

And babblers a lot more effective than you think when combined with webbing

ZiGGY · April 2003

if you dont spend all your time xenosiding on 3 hives you have no love of life ;(

Kid-A · April 2003

I usually lerk and I'll tell you what, when your a 3 hive fade and rush then you'll bathe in my sweet sweet wee cloud. However the same goes for fades they'd often rather just bile/acid from a distance. I want my share of the kills so will spore, I don't see how its cheaper than acid rocket spam.

AIRinc_FaReZ · April 2003

Well, if its NOT cheaper than acid spam at least it is AS cheap as acid spam. If you use your abilities just for kiills, stop playing this game. If you want NEVER to meet your enemy in close melee range, go Marine and sit in Viaduct picking on skulks. Bottomline is, dont be a wimp.

Stoneburg · April 2003

It is not <b>cheap</b> or anything like that. I could care less about "cheap". I'm talking about <b>efficiency</b>. Also, I said <b>Gorges</b> and <b>Lerks</b> get "worse", not Fades. As far as I am concerned Bile Bombs are a lot better then acid rockets since they damage buildings so much and that is where the res is most of the time. Killing 6 vanilla marines = 0 pts, killing a Proto Lab = 45 pts.

Now, for the last time, it is not about "cheap" at all, it is only about what is efficient. It is generally more efficient to have a Lerk umbra <b>inside</b> MB and have Fades rush/blink in and claw everything to pieces then have fades standing <b>outside</b> MB spamming acid rockets.

(Now this is the original argument)

<b>Gorges and Lerks are usually more efficient when healing/webbing and using umbra then when babbling or using spores (unless they are by them self of course).</b>

Now please, do not post saying "I love spores!" or "Acid is not cheap!" or even "Regen rocks as Fade" because that is not relevant, start your own thread with that subject if you feel a need to state it out of context.

sej · April 2003

Actually if marines have set up an effective defence then three hives considerably speeds up the winning process.

ThE_HeRo · April 2003

Spores....must....be....deleted....from....natural-selection....

Shadowics · April 2003

I can see where the person was coming from by saying that Babblers and Spore reduce the teamwork. I personally like using bother of them because they are fun to use. For spore cloud, it one of the best long range weapons aliens get, and it's great for flushing marines out of turret farms. Combine that with the Lerk's manuveriblity and you have an excellence killing machine. As far as Babblers go, as they are now they aren't very effective. The Babbler's abilities are absolutly deadly and far more useful then having the gorge healspray. Except for one thing. The bugs in Babblers prevent them from being used as effectivly as they could be, like when you hit fire and you energy goes down but nothing happens, or the Babbler turns around and bites you, or gets stuck in a tiny peice of the scenery. If they ever improved Babbler's AI to the point where they always spawned properly and never got stuck on something I think that marines would start complaining about how cheap Babblers are.

It'll be interesting to see what it's like in 1.1.

Odd How Two Aliens Actually Get Worse With 3:hives

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