Re: Knockback
Shockeh
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">In 1.1</div> Will there be any changes?
Knockback on the floor as it is, seems fine. But if you hit a marine mid flight atm, he hurtles a fair way, usually guaranteeing Skulk death. Will there be any changes?
(Hey, if you don't ask, you don't get.) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Knockback on the floor as it is, seems fine. But if you hit a marine mid flight atm, he hurtles a fair way, usually guaranteeing Skulk death. Will there be any changes?
(Hey, if you don't ask, you don't get.) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Otherwise, this is mostly a HL engine problem. The work required to fix it may very well not be worth while. Or, it might be fixed up inadvertantly by adding the bhopping fix, although not necessarily in a way everyone will like.
people use real life to compare things in ns so ill do the same with this: it makes no sense for a marine to bounce up and down while continuously shooting then get launched back 15 feet when my teeth sink into his armor/flesh. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
it feels like im not even biting marines, its more like im just pushing them away with some damage. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Errrm, isn't that the point? Marines get RANGED weapons. Aliens get very powerful MELEE attacks.
They don't need knockback.
This would not only be more realistic but keep things balanced (assuming knockback needs to be there for balance). The skulk would no longer have to worry about a marine flying away and should thus be more effective at close range; The marine would no longer stare in horror as he pours fire into this charging creature coming at him down a long,narrow hallway with his bullets seeming to do little more than spray a bit of green blood here and there.
Net result: Marines more dangerous at a distance, Skulks more dangerous at close range.
Giving the marines even MORE of an advantage in range than they already have would be too much of an unbalance. I think that skulk vs. marine is balanced fine and does not need to be changed.
(Ps. I realise real physics has nothing to do with it, I'm just saying...)
Giving the marines even MORE of an advantage in range than they already have would be too much of an unbalance. I think that skulk vs. marine is balanced fine and does not need to be changed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think with the right tweaking it could work. I think most maps have a fair mix of long/mid/short range battle areas.
I tend to agree with you that gameplay should be given priority over realism... but the danger here is that the further you stray from any sense of reality the harder (at least for some people) it is to suspend your disbelief i.e. the atmosphere of the game is negatively influenced in my opinion. It is very frustrating to have a marine escape at close range as a skulk...it is equally frustrating to riddle a skulk with gunfire and still die because it runs right up to you from a distance (down a narrow corridor) without being slowed in the least despite taking obvious multiple hits.
I guess what I'm saying is that balance would be preserved by making marines more dangerous at long range and skulks more dangerous at close range.
I tend to agree with you that gameplay should be given priority over realism... but the danger here is that the further you stray from any sense of reality the harder (at least for some people) it is to suspend your disbelief i.e. the atmosphere of the game is negatively influenced in my opinion.
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dude just because the ALIEN biting the marine in this GAME on your COMPUTER doesn't mimic the way you react when your dog attacks you irl when your playing irlns. doesn't nessassarly mean it should in ns the video game.
I tend to agree with you that gameplay should be given priority over realism... but the danger here is that the further you stray from any sense of reality the harder (at least for some people) it is to suspend your disbelief i.e. the atmosphere of the game is negatively influenced in my opinion.
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dude just because the ALIEN biting the marine in this GAME on your COMPUTER doesn't mimic the way you react when your dog attacks you irl when your playing irlns. doesn't nessassarly mean it should in ns the video game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. The point is not that NS has to mimic reality exactly but when strange things happen...like a marine flying backwards because of a bite... some people think that this detracts from the overall feeling of being there.
Thats good advice <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Makes me think of one of my favourite quotes from 'Tombstone'...."I have two guns,one for each of ya"
It depends ...
i) how much slowdown ?
ii) how much the fact that marines would no longer be knocked back by skulks improve skulk kills ?
iii) what sort of combat environment ?...long hallways ? open spacious rooms ?
iv) how many combatants ?
Probably quite a number of other factors.
At long range, marines completely dominate skulks. Marines would not need the help of a slowdown feature, especially with hints of decreased muzzle flash in 1.1. At short range, it's a bit more even when two good players face off, but the marine can usually come out on top if he bhops like mad and exploits the being launched when hit "feature." Evenly balanced CQC or CQC geared toward marines vs skulks should only occur if he's decked out with a shotgun or something other than stock equipment.
What have we learned? Dont rambo. Stick together, and you can win. This applys to skulks too.
Recoil would be fine with me. Would be nice to actually have something that "kicks" instead of something that "pops" <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Seriously though... I think as Snoopy mentioned... sticking together is a major advantage. A group of marines against a group of skulks in a chaotic battle... I doubt skulk slow-down would make marines invincible (also keeping in mind that slow-down can be something very, very slight) . In a one-on-one battle with range...ja, marine probably would be practically invincible. I would argue that this is the point of having a gun though, right ? At close range though, I think the skulk would be well poised to finish a marine off quickly when all of sudden they no longer fly away when bitten. This would be the advantage of having a jaw-full of sharp,nasty pointed teeth. I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that with realism there can be balance...it just means that people will have to adapt playing styles.
What I'm trying to get at as well is that IMO the game would be better served by having more decisive battles i.e. marine dead quickly or skulk dead quickly versus the marine hopping with a skulk nipping at his heels for quite some time before someone is killed. This is of course totally a personal preference...which most people probably would not like see happen. It does have one advantage though... with increasing realism you will need even more teamwork to be effective.
"NO KNOCKBACKS" No1 is using a socketed LMG or HMG with some weird runes on it(too much diablo sorry)
Erm... It's been done since v 1.0 <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The laws of physics? Well, guess what the coefficient of friction of air is; that's right, virtually nothing.
And what happens when a force is applied to an object w/o friction? It accelerates in the same direction as the force. Now what happens when this object is already going in the same direction as the force applied? Correct, it goes even faster.
The bounceback actually is of the same phenoma that allows rocket jumping; the Quake engine assumes no air friction, and any force applied in the air is directly translated into an increase/decrease in speed without any chance of slowing down unless the object in motion is in contact with a surface that has a significant coefficient of friction (ie: floor, water).
In real life, a 50 pound object (skulk) travelling at a skulk's maximum running speed can actually knock someone who can jump as high as a marine and in the same direction as the skulk a long ways away. The problem is that few people can jump as high as the marines in NS can, few airborne people want to be hit by a 50 pound object going 1.5 times their speed, and few people can land on their feet after being hit. That's why it doesn't "appear" to be realistic, for a real marine would trip on his own legs and fall on his back.
The only difference is that the skulk should be knocked back as well (every action has an equal and opposite reaction) at an equivilent momentum (read: they'd be knocked back at a higher speed)... which they obviously aren't.
I guess my point is to defend that marine knockback by skulk tackle is actually reasonably realistic.