Glad To See Anti-cheat Support In 1.1

Wile_E_Coyote · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">losing faith in ""elite"" players (venting)</div> nothing important, or even new for that matter, just venting a bit guys.

I don't cheat. I play with the rules the games come with, and don't advantage map exploits. I really DO try to believe that there are these uber-players out there who really ARE that good, perfect aim, can execute the bunnyhop move perfectly every single time, etc. But then I have a night like last night. You all know the drill: clan-tag guy, name not important cause it was probably fake, shoots almost perfect, hits everything first try 90% of the time. In three maps always played Marine. After the third map was obviously lost, I went observer to watch their team and maybe learn from them. I stop on clan-tag guy. Has an HMG and jetpack, is shooting our hive while flying all over the room, never stopping. And then I see the mistake he made. Forgot to toggle off his auto-aim hack. Every single round that came out of his gun went toward the exact same pixel/spot on the hive, no matter how erratically he flew. Wow. How lame. I pointed out to everyone what I saw and he immediately left the server.

My favorite is the guys who play Marine and shoot everything down like a NS veteran and then turn out not to even know the map, much less how the game of NS works. Yeah, I'm sure they aquired their uber-skillz from Allah or something. Gimme a break.

Most of the advanced hacks have cheats that can be toggled on and off during gameplay so as not to draw too much attention to one's self, and the aimbot's have a miss % so it sometimes appears that your aim is not perfect. I would say about 50% of the time someone appears to cheating, they are.

I know cheaters have been and always will be in games. But boy I look forward to seeing 1.1 come out with anti-cheat support <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> It won't be perfect, but it'll sure help.

BTW, The first aimbot for half-life was created by a programmer who was ticked off because everyone in the Counter-Strike newsgroup told him it couldn't be done. So go ahead and tell me I'm just jealous cause I suck at NS: You probably have a hack to <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

SkinnY · March 2003

i don't get cheating... i think it sux.... i'd rather play bad and not cheat, cause then i atleast tried to play and not just kill kill kill....

merC1 · March 2003

Maybe he wasn't cheating ... im pretty sure he wasnt hitting the exact same pixel spot like u said , since the hmg has a cone spray , and if u haven't noticed, no recoil does not make it too hard to kill a skulk.

stop crying.

tbZBeAst · March 2003

Umm, I'm prolly one of the guys that kills aliens like a pro, but gets lost, or asks for waypoints. I don't cheat, I just have a lousy memory and sense of direction....

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

/edit missing M

Cowswin · March 2003

Yeah...maybe he wasn't cheating...especially after he left the server when confronted. Yes, I'm sorry to shatter you little glass worlds but there ARE cheaters in NS and they ARE rampant. Personally I never accuse anyone of cheating unless it's blatantly obvious (5 aliens in the marine spawn in ns_hera on totally different parts of the room and one guy with an HMG blasts ALL of them in the span of 3 seconds). I know some VERY good players who get accused of cheating and hacking all the time. One of my friends plays Dod like a maniac and gets kicked/banned from nearly every server he's not a "regular" on or if it's full of n00bs who don't know his name. He's one of the top 10 players in Dod and can aim better than aimbots most of the time. When he jumped over to NS to play with me every now and then, he almost always gets accussed of being called a cheater because he fires so fast and accurately. If I wasn't sitting next to him watching his screen while I played, I woulda said the same thing. However, I believe this type of player is more the exception than the rule.

I believe NS requires some type of anti-cheat in order to keep it playable, because otherwise it'll just turn into another CS in it's early days. It's just getting so frustrating for both the players that actually ARE good enough to blow away half the alien team with a swipe of their gun and the players that are trying to figure out who's good enough to do that and who's computer is playing for them.

echs · March 2003

But even the cheaters die...Although I often struggle to see the innocence in a marine kill multiple skulks in one go with a knife. For sure he locks on them. Anti-Cheat will be a good thing for NS. I also like how the voogru servers don't display the kill/death count. I think NS should remove the standard scores and replace it with a team percentage score. Like the end of game score board in Starcraft when you've won.

Mindmeldme · March 2003

Sadly there will always be cheats...no matter what game it is. The worst is that it is done for online games like this which ruins play. Hopefully though when 1.1 comes out it will almost all go away. I haven't seen to many people cheating but I try and stay in servers I am known at...that have good and active Admins. If we do think someone is cheating they don't last long but as others have said I don't say someone is unless it's VERY obvious.

Frogg2 · March 2003

5 skulks with an HMG is nothing strange...

SuperBOB · March 2003

There is no way to prevent auto-aiming 3rd party programs, just think about it for a second and you will realise this :e
Nothing anyone can do will ever stop it, there will always be work-arounds.

But more importantly NS is the best type of FPS to avoid the cheats! Most people cheat for the fun/attention i presume, but in NS frags dont even show on the marine side. So its less obvious if someone is performing well, more important in NS is the ability to teamplay <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Also because of the amount of teamplay, NS will and has created communitys unique in the FPS scene, im sure soon, maybe after 1.1 this will be more obvious (more servers viable, less cpu usage etc).

And in a community of players there arent going to be any cheats because your playing with friends and not some random "elite" dude called H4x0r with his OGC and various plugins <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

echs · March 2003

Funny thing is, I've been playing NS for almost 5months now and I've only ever come across a handful of cheaters. Whereas in other games, CS, UT, Starcraft etc you get loads...
It would seem NS is less popular amongst cheaters. But what use does a comm have with a marine if he can only shoot things that move and not accomplish tasks?
I like how some forums don't display post counts so that people don't spam threads just to up their score count. I would love to see the scores for individual players gone and replaced with a tally of structures built, total resources gained, player percentage of aim etc.

Cowswin · March 2003

5 skulks on different sides of the room in ns_hera marine spawn is FREAKY strange. There isn't a position in the room you can be in to see all of them at once, esp since he was in the middle. Not unless you have your screen set to 360 degree view range or play with 3 monitors and have the maddest aim in the world. I'm talking 3 seconds, not 3 minutes...

merC1 · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm sorry to shatter you little glass worlds but there ARE cheaters in NS and they ARE rampant.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Well, i am sorry to shatter your little glass world, but just because someone gets owned and cries about it doesn't mean he cheats. Yes, there probably are cheaters but not as rampant as you claim, infact i have not seen 1 cheater for ns yet. Maybe if you had some skill at the game you wouldn't be making ignorant claims like that.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Although I often struggle to see the innocence in a marine kill multiple skulks in one go with a knife. For sure he locks on them.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

More ignorance, the fact that the alien gets killed by a knife shows his lack of skill. I mean 75 bite damage vs 30 knife damage ...

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yeah...maybe he wasn't cheating...especially after he left the server when confronted.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

maybe he just got tired of playing with noobies and bitchy players like you and decided he should find a more challenging server. It happens to me and my friends all the time.

Get some skill and stop crying.

TacOne · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (merC. @ Mar 28 2003, 08:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well, i am sorry to shatter your little glass world, but just because someone gets owned and cries about it doesn't mean he cheats. Yes, there probably are cheaters but not as rampant as you claim, infact i have not seen 1 cheater for ns yet. Maybe if you had some skill at the game you wouldn't be making ignorant claims like that.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ahem, merC, I don't think he wasn't complaining that someone killed him so "l33tly" that he thought it was a hack/aimbot.
He just stated that there are and will be cheaters in this kind of game, and he's damn right.

Don't just read before you flame, THINK before you flame. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

wlibaers · March 2003

Skulks being knifed is perfectly normal in some places. If you don't know the trick you could bite a marine in a vent, corner or ladder 100 times and still do no damage.
Even when you're in open terrain, marines usually switch to knife only after they spent their LMG and pistol clip and probably injured you. The knife may not do much damage, but if you are down to 20 health that doesn't really matter.

glio · March 2003

or maybe he was cheating merc. people cheat, more than you think. i think you need to stop crying.

merC1 · March 2003

People do cheat i agree, i am just sick of seeing all these threads about cheats and ppl aimbotting. I am pretty sure 70% of them are false accusations.

Most cheats have come in the form of people using exploits, ie. stopcommandermode and were just used for griefing other players. To say the person was definitly cheating because he killed 5 skulks with an hmg and jp is extremely stupid. HMGS and JPS own skulks thats why they used so much.

People just need to accept that there are some people out there who are better than them. and better does not mean cheating.

Zel · March 2003

im glad no ones said this crap about me, i play on pubs and i can take down a rush of 3 skulks on my own. pretty much all over the map, i often go 9-1 in the beginning, and maybe if i played on random pubs there would be some punks claiming i hax. (of course aimbotters use a percent chance to miss to make it look like theyre not aimbotting... thats the biggest pile of crap ive ever heard anyone say, sorry)

also, if youve ever watched someone fire an hmg, all the bullets fly to one point in the lower left of his random cone. thats just the way NS random cone of fire works to third parties. you may notice thins die that werent visibly hit....

a friend of mine plays CS so well youll swear he aimbots,m but ive been in the room watching him pick off dozens of terrorists, so you cant tell me its not possible. (he likes to laugh at me when i miss skulks because i dont trail them fast enough <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> )

Cowswin · March 2003

Ok dude, calm down, it's not like I'm making fun of your mother or something <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> I was just saying there are cheaters, if you were there, you would've seen it too. But anyway, I do admit, as I've said before, that there ARE good players who can aim well. Players with awesome sound systems or headphones that can hear you before they have motion tracking and therefore pop around corners and kill you. There are also people like in my example who blatantly cheat. If the skulks were in a nice neat row or even down a large hallway I wouldn't have blinked if he killed 5 skulks in 3 seconds. However, nobody seems to understand that this was ns_hera marine spawn...which has a HUGE ceiling. He did NOT have JP, and the aliens were all over the walls, vents and running up the comm chair, totally seperate areas, some even just popping into view, all owned in the span of 3 seconds. But enough about that, you anti-cheaters are getting too hung up on this example.

A perfect example of a really good marine player is Captain Kirk, I'm sure a couple of you have seem him here and there. The first couple times I played against him, I was almost positive he was a cheater, however, after playing with him for extended periods of time I've come to realize he's really quite good. Many people still accuse him of cheating however because he IS that good. I'm not accussing everyone of cheating, and just as I said before, I almost NEVER do in game. I'd just like to settle my mind and many others on whether that marine popping around the corner is a kiddie scripter with a heat seaking computer lock or a mad skillz player who's going to pwn me true <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Aminal · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (merC. @ Mar 28 2003, 08:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> More ignorance, the fact that the alien gets killed by a knife shows his lack of skill. I mean 75 bite damage vs 30 knife damage ...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Lol, the fact that the knife has longer range than bite, and the fact that a marine is knifing probably means that the marine emptied a clip of lmg and pistol at the skulk already - some of which _must_ have hit means the skulk wasn't that bad.

RandomEngy · March 2003

I've seen a lot of cheat accusations (over 20 at least) while playing, not including the "<playername> is bs" unspecific comments. However throughtout all the games of NS I have played, I really don't think I've been in a game with a single cheater. So just remember for every real cheater out there there's probably 20 or more people who get accused of cheating. If you get owned (even if you're a good player) chances are they're not cheating and you'll be better off congratulating them directly than by accusing them of cheating.

However, if you really are dead certain that someone is cheating you'd better be able to back up your words with solid evidence ( 1st person demos in 1.1 ).

cybrangl · March 2003

There are more cheaters than you think. We see at least one a day on our server (confirmed) and the claim of cheating is not used lightly. A classic test will be to haev 2 skulks with silence sneak up on a suspected marine, one from teh front and one from the back. If the marine can spin and kill both within the same clip, they have an aimbot. That simple. There is no way a human can do a 180 and not miss a shot. You can also usually tell by the way an aimbot will swing around as a targt comes from around into the line of sight, or some track the target through the wall (not talking motion tracking here).
Yes, it is possible we have banned that one, godly player, but even if the person was not cheating, the perception of allowing cheating on the server is enough to send all the decent players away and leave you with nothing but cheaters.

pardzh · March 2003

Heh, there are a lot less cheaters than you think, actually.

Try playing with the sYn or ReD guys and see if you think they cheat. I guarantee you that you'll start off thinking they do. Some people are just damn good shots and you can't do anything about it.

<i>edit:</i> and your test isn't a very good one. You've probably banned more than a few Marines for using their Motion Tracking the way it's supposed to be. It's not entirely hard to kill two skulks within one clip, either.

Zeo · March 2003

You guys seen the marine cloaking effect? This one time as skulk, I hear that a rt is under attack, and it's pretty close so I check it out. He's knifing away, then all of a sudden.....nothing. No knifing and most importantly, no footsteps to confirm runnning away! He was still by the rt, just cloaked. So I chomped on the area that he was most likely to be, and hey hey, cheater: dead.<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

He left. Immediately. Thats the only cheater I was 100% on.
Some guys out there are the alpha and the omega, when it comes to shooting. What ya gonna do? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Rion · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zeo @ Mar 28 2003, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You guys seen the marine cloaking effect? This one time as skulk, I hear that a rt is under attack, and it's pretty close so I check it out. He's knifing away, then all of a sudden.....nothing. No knifing and most importantly, no footsteps to confirm runnning away! He was still by the rt, just cloaked. So I chomped on the area that he was most likely to be, and hey hey, cheater: dead.<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

He left. Immediately. Thats the only cheater I was 100% on.
Some guys out there are the alpha and the omega, when it comes to shooting. What ya gonna do? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
He was probably hiding inside of the RT while attacking it.. I know the first time I encountered that it freaked me out.. damn marine kept damagin **** once I left and stopped once I got near.. till I saw him moving through the RT looking at me.. so I ate him up nicely <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> don't know why he left after you killed him though.

Keyser · March 2003

When your talking about cheaters, are you talking about hardcore aimbot cheaters, or just the r_drawviewmodel users. I know that plenty of people turn of their model, but I really don't think that 1 out of 100 people use hardcore hacks. I mean there are probably wallhacks, but I don't see how an aimbot could shoot at something so small like a skulk. I even did a little search and I didn't find one aimbot for NS (although I found a ton for games like CS and DoD) Maybe I'm not searching right, but I don't think they exist.

Minstrel_Knight · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser59 @ Mar 28 2003, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When your talking about cheaters, are you talking about hardcore aimbot cheaters, or just the r_drawviewmodel users. I know that plenty of people turn of their model, but I really don't think that 1 out of 100 people use hardcore hacks. I mean there are probably wallhacks, but I don't see how an aimbot could shoot at something so small like a skulk. I even did a little search and I didn't find one aimbot for NS (although I found a ton for games like CS and DoD) Maybe I'm not searching right, but I don't think they exist.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Aimbot does not have to be mod specific. The target could be the size of a gnat and make no difference to the aimbot. r_drawviewmodel is not a cheat.

Onuma · March 2003

Unfortunately:

99% of the time Cheaters, scripters, and hackers are one step ahead of anti-cheat software and other countermeasures, thus making them obsolete.

IMO - if someone is going to cheat, they will figure out a way how, no matter what countermeasures are in place.

Take an example from Diablo 2; a game that was supposedly cheat-free (if playing on the Realms/closed b.net), but if you go on a Realm today you will find hacked items, bots, and people with 8 million (yes 8`000`000) Life -- things that were obviously not embedded into the code of the game itself.

The best way to cut down cheating is the way games like EQ or other MMORPGs do it, update a patch at least daily. It can never be entirely eliminated, but it will stop many cheats from working for at least an hour or two.

That_Annoying_Kid · March 2003

I am to, but this topic seems to be heating up...

Church · March 2003

I have encountered at most one cheater (I could be wrong about him, but everyone else on the server, even his teamates, believed he was cheating) so far in my 3 1/2 months of playing NS. Of course, I also only play on well-admins servers, usually clan servers or voogru's or GWB servers.

Anyways I just find it extremely hilarious that people can just pull statistics like "50% of cheat accusations are true" or "70% of them are false" or whatever. I mean, WHERE did they get these numbers? Unless they used a random sampling technique and had a 100% way of telling who were cheating and who weren't, those numbers mean NOTHING!

p4Samwise · March 2003

It's already known that there are entire clans who cheat. Just last night I played on a server with a couple of myg0ts who rushed and spawn-camped our hive with unerring pistol aim. We actually ended up <b>just barely</b> beating them due to their complete and utter lack of strategy, but that's a story for another time. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

The point is, yes, people do cheat. And yes, I'm very much looking forward to VAC, and very much hoping that Valve is still updating it (and is going to institute global banning in the near future).

If you've never encountered a cheater, I'm very happy for you.

babygirl · March 2003

To get back to the original post:

I don't understand how VAC is supposed to stop good players from whupping your butt. Please elaborate.

Glad To See Anti-cheat Support In 1.1

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