<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Mar 26 2003, 07:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Mar 26 2003, 07:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> C) People under the age of 15 (Sorry if you are, but trust me, once you're over it, and then over 18, then over 20 etc etc etc, you always see the 'group' below & realise what a waste of space you often were, but you'll never see it at the time.)
<img src='http://watmm.com/forum/html/emoticons/glare.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are absolutely correct.
PLEASE take as long as you need for this patch, and DONT rush it. I would rather wait an extra month and have a near perfect patch balance and few bugs, than get it early with lots of crap in it.....
Hopefully 1.1 should rock, as it is the first major patch, and I am thinking Flay has done his homework while playing and watching CWs, and should be able to do a very nice job of making the game even better.
The problem with CS isn't really the game (actually, CS does benefit from teamwork, it's not a deathmatch but a team-based game) but the huge amount of horrible people playing it. No that all CS players are bad, but any community that big just has to have a large amount of idiots.
The only thing i didnt like whatsoever was the fact that they are trying to shorten down the round time. They need to make the rounds longer!
Longer gives you more time to plan and learn. Shorter is fast, furious, and stupid. DoD was really fun because the rounds ran a LOT longer than in CS. NS was even better because you could wander around THINKING about what to do next. This is a game of strategy, not reflex.
NONONONONO IM NOT AFRAID OF 1.1, I CANT WAIT. To survive while waiting Ill try to learn every map inside and out and IF 1.1 comes with any new maps(I sorta doubt it) I will make sure Im the first to know them well. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would have to say that i would be one of thoes CSers coverts maybe one of the very 1st
and now i wish more of my lesser CS bros i know would turn from the dark side like i have but that wont happen for some time i think. when ppl like my self came to NS from cs i was looking for a new game with mass team play and NON-HACKING ****. but u really dont have to worry about CS ppl crossing over, like in a swarm of bugs cuz many of u write like there all going to switch to NS like the same day or some thing. come on that would scare the **** out of me if one day we go form 400 servers to over a few 1000. if any thing i think they will come to NS slowly.
Myself has been waiting on NS 1.1 for some time now
oh i have been playing NS like 3 weeks after its release "the day i saw the light"
All I will say is that these forums and the official IRC channel will not change. We like them as is, and if the lamers flood in, we will have twice the fun getting rid of them all <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> And when we need a break, Spyder causes random PHP errors... err, nm...
<!--QuoteBegin--Propagandhi+Mar 26 2003, 01:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Propagandhi @ Mar 26 2003, 01:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone else go weak in the knees when you think about all the changes/additions 1.1 is going to bring? I mean, it's pretty much gonna be a whole new game.
While change can be good, too much change in one serving(1.04->1.1) is BAD.
I also fear that with the release of 1.1, more people are gonna hear of NS. Which can be a bad thing(and probably will be). This is such a great mod... and a great community for the most part. I'd like the community to stay as it is. Honestly, I think it's damn near perfect... It's gonna suck if the CS community spills over into NS... and that's what I fear the most.
Hopefully I'm wrong about most of this. (please god) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey propagandi, you are not alone my freind. I am scared of some change too and when I first saw the list of changes on another forum I thought the admin of the server was joking. Cloaking chambers come right out of Voogroo and electrical turret factory upgrades, I mean, Jesus *****. What amazes me is that people think that more people to the community is better, which isn't always the case. At some point remember my words well because it will get to a point where new players will completely run the show on this forum and ingame simply becuase the shear volume of people attracted to this mod. With more people you also get more idiots, more lamers, more possible hackers that make new hacks for NS because they are bored with hacking other games, ext ext, just... you will get the point.
Coil, I would also like to add that with more people, Flayra's vision can possibly be blurred "as it has been" before. Its more like Flayra being molded around the people's opinion. For instance, we wouldn't have the damn no hive ping of death if it wasn't for the handful of whiners who couldn't satnd waiting for the round to end mindlessly. People in 1.0 whined about turret farming without the TF and nowadays, to regulars, Turrets are mindless waste of resource, BUT the whole no TF no working turrets thing was implemented because of a handful of people who just sucked complained that it would make sense to make TF have a range and control over turrrets. In that case, lets remove Motion-tracking when observatory is down, lets remove weapon and armore upgrades when arms lab is down, Lets have webs dissolve when the second hive is lost, lets instantly kill an onos if a third hive is down, because it only makes sense (SARCASM DETECTED)
WE must not forget though that the big picture is that Flayra invisioned a game where teamwork was a key asset and teamplay was what NS was all about. But many factors contribute to people having skewed perspectives on things. For instance, I think I've seen only 1/4th of the NS servers ahve players that actually communicated through the microphone. Its sad to realize this as most of the time, if not all the time, these are the servers that witness marine loss over and over and over and eventually those people start to thinkt hat marines are underpowered and whine that they should have better weapons and just more.
Change is good. I love all the new changes to it, it sounds great. Keep in mind, this isn't near it. It still has to go through playtesting (and we know that flay will want it to be perfect before the release, so it will be extensive). Almost everything change for the better, have some optumism guys. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Also, remember, the more people the BETTER. It may bring some bad apples in, but there are much more good apples than bad apples. I'm sure the NS team would love to take the long standing CS from the top spot of most played game online. There's always clans and matches if you want to keep the nubs away.
<!--QuoteBegin--Propagandhi+Mar 26 2003, 08:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Propagandhi @ Mar 26 2003, 08:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's gonna suck if the CS community spills over into NS... and that's what I fear the most.
Hopefully I'm wrong about most of this. (please god) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Please refrain from using CS as some sort of umbrella term for undesirable players. As a previous poster mentioned bad/immature players are fact of life in <b> any game.</b> Also as previously mentioned there is a distinct wave of intolerance for new players on alot of NS servers, with the dreaded "n00b" label thrown around far too quickly. In other words this community does not exactly consist of benevolent monks now does it ?
As for the changes: I say go for it NS team ! This mod obviously has alot of potential and I'd hate to see it stagnate.
That people do not use the microphone may be due to the fact that the sound quality often is very bad. Usually I don't even understand half of what is being said. Chat usually works better unless it's really urgent.
<!--QuoteBegin--Butt monkey salad+Mar 26 2003, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Butt monkey salad @ Mar 26 2003, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IF 1.1 comes with any new maps(I sorta doubt it) I will make sure Im the first to know them well. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Read it and weep, d0lt ^_^
Commenting on all of the worries of the CS community spilling over into NS, I have one thing to say.
From what I have observed, the game really determines the community. I know some people who are hardcore deathmatchers and they don't like NS. This is because of their personality type. They don't have the patience to play NS or learn to play it. I think that the game it self will and has filtered out the players that fit the game. If people don't play the game with teamwork and their brains, they won't win. It has been my observations that when people don't win, they don't like to play. Then they just stop playing!
As long as NS stays the strategy and team based game that it is, te community will fit. Personally, I think that CS has the community that fits it. It's a game for the masses now, and that's exactly what it has, the masses. NS is a game for the teamplayers.
Don't accuse every CS player as a rambo and "elite" speaking dult...
I still play CS (flame proof suit already on)... ...(hopefully I didn’t actually have to use it...) And I notice that good CS players ARE team workers. (Except in some crappy maps) cs is a good game, but the people don't play it like they are supposed to... I play CS and I am guilty of ramboing (but that’s because my team didn’t help anyways), but if you play with other good players the experience can be MUCH MORE PLESANT. I only play on certain servers because I can’t take the cs community. These servers are clan servers and usually have GOOD players. I play CS and at the same time hate the average CS player. Heh well at least I can (own... crosout that word) defeat them...
As for 1.1 I feel it will be a good thing... I fell that the ns team is trying to add more depth into this game. Currently I feel that the strategies that are available and viable are limited and the game far from completely promoting team play... I feel the changes are designed to affect the strategy and create a more thoughtful in depth playing experience. This time though I hope that the ns team will not listen to the complaints of the balance... I remember in the first release the testers had thoroughly tested the balance and I feel that the changes to 1.4 should have not been made so quickly. I feel this way because I believe the testers balancing the game are a more accurate gauge of balance than the newbish community. It was a new game so how could the inexperienced community really tell if the game was actually balanced. And yet they listened anyways. I hope this time the ns team will listen to the beta testers and be more cautious about game play changes. I do not want to see the inexperienced community of v 1.1 destroy the balancing work of the more experienced beta testers (for they will have had developed the strategies and mastered the balance of 1.1)
and if the patch does make the game have a more deep strategy then i believe it will cause more players to leave and only attract the more strategic gamming croud...
Yes, tis a frightful time for all the players of NS. Reminds me of the Protoss in StarCraft before the Zerg swarm descended upon their planet. I used to play CS, but only for a few months before I decided to download Natural Selection without knowing anything but its name. I was shocked - I had found a game better than CS, a game that rivals the almighty Halo in my Shrine of Gameness. And it was free, too. Looking back now, I realize that CS was nothing special, just a deathmatch where no one respawns and you have to stand still when you fire (note I didn't say team deathmatch - team members in CS are more like non-target in the mind of the player). The changes in 1.1 seem ominous, especially the shorter round times; I love a good long hour an' a half brawl of the tacticians and capped tech trees. Also, I fear that the Marines will be able to access their more deadly weapons quickly to counter the Hive 1 Onos and hence end the round in 11 minutes. As for CS players, I will have to act with haste in my search for a clan and server. CS players, while I dislike sterotypes, can be real pains in the multiple body parts. Hopefully, they will learn in time. The stereotypes are true, run for your lives! The uber-leet gorge of death approaches! ARGHHH! ... Probably one of the things I'll miss most when more players join the community is the sense of that same community; I can browse through many different servers and see familiar faces, or at least aliases. In the CS horde I only encountered the same person once, something that just makes the environment feel like its coming up from under your feet. Don't know how many of you also feel like this. On a side note, I'm kind of proud to be one of the people who was playing within the first 3 weeks of its release. Years from now, I'll be a NS elder, and actually try to help the new guy along rather than scream "GET OF GORGE U PIECE OF $#17! UR MAKIN US LOSe!!!!!111" That's all... *sheds a few tears for v1.04* Oh, how we'll miss the good times you brought, as we look ahead to an uncertain future with hope in our hearts...
Hey come on now. The CS people are the same as the NS people. I am a member of both communities and try to post as often in both. Its just two different flavors of ice-cream understand? Some people like CS styel gaming, other like NS, its chill. THe players are almost exactly the same. YOu have jerks who think they know it all, **** who are rude in the forums, people who treat you as if you're garbage in both forums. On the plus side, the CS players have skills that don't get developed all that well in NS. For example even without a command-structure, i find that most of my cs games have advanced tactics (i don't play crap pub servers for CS, i play the good ones). If these kinds of players spill over you are going to get players from CS who are used to team work. Even if there are people in the CS community who are lame, there are just as many who aren't. Its the same with the NS community. There are **** here, (just look at that turrent topic from a couple weeks ago, holy cow.) They key is that both communities have their focus on differenct aspects of FPS games. To integrate those two styles would be positive change in the NS comunity
<!--QuoteBegin--BlueTorpeedo+Mar 26 2003, 08:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueTorpeedo @ Mar 26 2003, 08:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im afraid that people are going to do what they did on the first release...
The Game will be so different from what they will have trouble playing it, like when people tried comm'ing at first the sucked because they didnt know the tech tree, how to pace your advance, what to expect, ect. The aliens originally won most of the time (when i played) because it was more independant and similar to what they had played before in other games (sort of). Later, once players got used to the system, the 'rines caught up (and to some supereceded) the aleins. What I afraid of simply is that people will try it out and form a decision to early to be very accurate. They will start complaining about such and such without really get the expreince behind their decision. I think that 1.1 may acctually be easier for Noobs than some veterins because they wont be dependant on the OLD tried and true methods. The JP rush may be made obsolete in 1.1, but for a month therafter you know comms are going to keep trying it. And they will complain about how the 'rines now suck on the forums without trying anything different. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BIGNO! Another good point I didn't <i>really</i> mention.
<!--QuoteBegin--Moon+Mar 26 2003, 04:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moon @ Mar 26 2003, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Propagandhi+Mar 26 2003, 08:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Propagandhi @ Mar 26 2003, 08:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's gonna suck if the CS community spills over into NS... and that's what I fear the most.
Hopefully I'm wrong about most of this. (please god) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please refrain from using CS as some sort of umbrella term for undesirable players. As a previous poster mentioned bad/immature players are fact of life in <b> any game.</b> Also as previously mentioned there is a distinct wave of intolerance for new players on alot of NS servers, with the dreaded "n00b" label thrown around far too quickly. In other words this community does not exactly consist of benevolent monks now does it ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Peronally, I'd like to meet the person that started the "noob", "n00b", "nub", etc. "words" and slap him around a few. It's "newbie", ok people?
I just remember the good 'ol beta CS days... Sigh. When CS was fun. Now, sure... I started when beta 3 came out... loved it 'til around beta 7.1 came out. When it went retail(v1.0), it went downhill. Anyway... I don't wanna get into it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Propagandhi+Mar 27 2003, 10:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Propagandhi @ Mar 27 2003, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Propagandhi+Mar 26 2003, 08:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Propagandhi @ Mar 26 2003, 08:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's I just remember the good 'ol beta CS days... Sigh. When CS was fun. Now, sure... I started when beta 3 came out... loved it 'til around beta 7.1 came out. When it went retail(v1.0), it went downhill. Anyway... I don't wanna get into it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I started at around CS beta 4.0. This was in South Africa so we had a tiny community going. Was alot of fun. To this day I still expect the "flinch animations" when people get hit... very sad at their removal I was. Retail really killed the creativity aspect I'm afraid.
Fortunately NS does not have any restraints of that sort which is great. I'm very positive about the future of the mod.
I've stopped playing NS quite some time ago because I was fed up with the economy and the alien upgrades. There were some great ideas present, but the execution disappointed me. I'm happy that those things which made me stop playing will now be redesigned, and I'm looking forward to giving this game another try once 1.1 is done.
I don't think the NS "community" is something to be proud of. I've always seen it as elitist, condescending and authoritarian. I hope that 1.1 will bring some serious "play-to-win" players back who left due to non-existent gameplay balance.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think the NS "community" is something to be proud of. I've always seen it as elitist, condescending and authoritarian<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<condescending>Pfft, you would think that. Peon.</condescending>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I hope that 1.1 will bring some serious "play-to-win" players back who left due to non-existent gameplay balance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A "play-to-win player" is a contradiction. I always thought the idea of a game was "play-to-have-fun"
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Mar 28 2003, 03:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Mar 28 2003, 03:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A "play-to-win player" is a contradiction. I always thought the idea of a game was "play-to-have-fun" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But you can play to win and still have fun. And it can be annoying (bad for fun) when you have people on your team who do not play to win (n00b* goes gorge, puts sensory chamber on top of resource node).
That's the difference between toys and games, toys are just for fun, games are for fun but you can also win/lose. Of course, you can play games as if they were toys, start up a server yourself and play with chamber stacking, have fun flying around with a jetpack, but that's not really what NS is about.
* n00b and newbie aren't quite the same. Newbie is fairly neutral, just means they're new to the game. N00b has a strong negative feeling attached, it's more for those who don't know a thing about the game but insist they know everything best and refuse to take advice from more experienced players.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Yeah, but 'serious "play-to-win" players' tend not to be having fun. They want to win. At all costs. Regardless of repeating the same tactic 5,000,000 times (the "NO! DMS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU <b>CAN</b> LAY CHAMBERS!!!11" brigade get this accolade) or how many map bugs / exploits / straight out cheats they can pull.
These people should not be wanted in NS. Ever. I'd like to think I'm quite good, but I don't ever dance on someone's grave about it, and I'll happily throw down a Sensory first after 4-5 rounds of DMS, just for the variety in game. If you lose, so what? It was one round in a game, that you're meant to be playing for <b>your own enjoyment</b>, not to better your ego. It was only one round, gawd, and you got to try something a little weird/fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's my style of play, and I think it's distinctly different to the type of 'fun' displayed when..
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->n00b* goes gorge, puts sensory chamber on top of resource node<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah, but 'serious "play-to-win" players' tend not to be having fun. They want to win. At all costs. Regardless of repeating the same tactic 5,000,000 times<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, if repeating the same tactic over and over again works, that tactic is overpowered and the game is broken. The serious gamers get bored and leave the game. That's exactly what 1.1 must rectify. The predetermined order of DMS was one of the major downfalls. Whom were you kidding when you put up S first? The game itself provided no variety, so you had to do silly things deliberately to spice it up.
Regarding exploits, I admit that "play-to-win" people are more prone to give in to the temptation than the purists, but hell, obnoxious view obstructions for balance reasons really <i>were</i> a nuisance. I would never use outright cheats, but deactivating those sprites felt like a <i>liberation</i>.
But why would "play-for-fun" people care, I wonder? You can have fun even if I turn the view model off, can't you? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually, squeak, I think that the reason why Cs players are arrogant and degradatory is because of the way the game was made, squeak. Since the skill deviation is high, skilled players will feel extremely frustrated in circumstances such as : a.) Skiled player sees teammate being wasted by less-skilled player, B.) Less skilled player accidentally headshots you C.) New players stay in one position and die all the time, making the team lose D.) New players use the 'weak' weapons (such as shotgun, sig, dual elites, scout
Squeak, its just how the game is made. In NS you won't find these circumstances as skill deviation is not as broad, there are no headshots and all weapons are viable. Thus, less frustration. Me thinks, squeak, that most CS players are wonderful people when they play other games! Squeak.
squeak. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Congratulations! You've discovered a 100% guaranteed way of getting people to skip right past your posts!
Seriously, knock off the squeak interjections. It's as bad as puttin lame [FACT] messages on posts.
Comments
<img src='http://watmm.com/forum/html/emoticons/glare.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are absolutely correct.
Flayra and the devs and the PTs:
PLEASE take as long as you need for this patch, and DONT rush it. I would rather wait an extra month and have a near perfect patch balance and few bugs, than get it early with lots of crap in it.....
Hopefully 1.1 should rock, as it is the first major patch, and I am thinking Flay has done his homework while playing and watching CWs, and should be able to do a very nice job of making the game even better.
The only thing i didnt like whatsoever was the fact that they are trying to shorten down the round time. They need to make the rounds longer!
Longer gives you more time to plan and learn. Shorter is fast, furious, and stupid. DoD was really fun because the rounds ran a LOT longer than in CS. NS was even better because you could wander around THINKING about what to do next. This is a game of strategy, not reflex.
LM
and now i wish more of my lesser CS bros i know would turn from the dark side like i have but that wont happen for some time i think. when ppl like my self came to NS from cs i was looking for a new game with mass team play and NON-HACKING ****. but u really dont have to worry about CS ppl crossing over, like in a swarm of bugs cuz many of u write like there all going to switch to NS like the same day or some thing. come on that would scare the **** out of me if one day we go form 400 servers to over a few 1000. if any thing i think they will come to NS slowly.
Myself has been waiting on NS 1.1 for some time now
oh i have been playing NS like 3 weeks after its release "the day i saw the light"
I mean, it's pretty much gonna be a whole new game.
While change can be good, too much change in one serving(1.04->1.1) is BAD.
I also fear that with the release of 1.1, more people are gonna hear of NS.
Which can be a bad thing(and probably will be).
This is such a great mod... and a great community for the most part.
I'd like the community to stay as it is.
Honestly, I think it's damn near perfect...
It's gonna suck if the CS community spills over into NS... and that's what I fear the most.
Hopefully I'm wrong about most of this.
(please god) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey propagandi, you are not alone my freind. I am scared of some change too and when I first saw the list of changes on another forum I thought the admin of the server was joking. Cloaking chambers come right out of Voogroo and electrical turret factory upgrades, I mean, Jesus *****. What amazes me is that people think that more people to the community is better, which isn't always the case. At some point remember my words well because it will get to a point where new players will completely run the show on this forum and ingame simply becuase the shear volume of people attracted to this mod. With more people you also get more idiots, more lamers, more possible hackers that make new hacks for NS because they are bored with hacking other games, ext ext, just... you will get the point.
Coil, I would also like to add that with more people, Flayra's vision can possibly be blurred "as it has been" before. Its more like Flayra being molded around the people's opinion. For instance, we wouldn't have the damn no hive ping of death if it wasn't for the handful of whiners who couldn't satnd waiting for the round to end mindlessly. People in 1.0 whined about turret farming without the TF and nowadays, to regulars, Turrets are mindless waste of resource, BUT the whole no TF no working turrets thing was implemented because of a handful of people who just sucked complained that it would make sense to make TF have a range and control over turrrets. In that case, lets remove Motion-tracking when observatory is down, lets remove weapon and armore upgrades when arms lab is down, Lets have webs dissolve when the second hive is lost, lets instantly kill an onos if a third hive is down, because it only makes sense (SARCASM DETECTED)
WE must not forget though that the big picture is that Flayra invisioned a game where teamwork was a key asset and teamplay was what NS was all about. But many factors contribute to people having skewed perspectives on things. For instance, I think I've seen only 1/4th of the NS servers ahve players that actually communicated through the microphone. Its sad to realize this as most of the time, if not all the time, these are the servers that witness marine loss over and over and over and eventually those people start to thinkt hat marines are underpowered and whine that they should have better weapons and just more.
Anyway, I went way off the subject of 1.1 changes
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What was I saying?
Normally I would be all for it but after the recent MOO3 (Master of Orion 3) debacole Im a little gun shy of change.
Congrats MonsE!!!!!!!!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopefully I'm wrong about most of this.
(please god) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please refrain from using CS as some sort of umbrella term for undesirable players. As a previous poster mentioned bad/immature players are fact of life in <b> any game.</b> Also as previously mentioned there is a distinct wave of intolerance for new players on alot of NS servers, with the dreaded "n00b" label thrown around far too quickly. In other words this community does not exactly consist of benevolent monks now does it ?
As for the changes: I say go for it NS team ! This mod obviously has alot of potential and I'd hate to see it stagnate.
Read it and weep, d0lt ^_^
NS_Lost - Greedo386
NS_Veil aka Eclipse II - Kung Fu Squirrel
NS_Complex - Ollj
NS_Hydrosity - Mouse
NS_Delta aka Strizzzife - TommyD
NS_Helios - ^Requiem^
NS_Shaft - Ekaj
NS_Fusion - Revenant
NS_AtomicMass - ChromeAngel
NS_11th_hr - Chrome Angel
NS_Phobia - Mendasp
NS_Napo - Asraniel
NS_Nirvana - bLuEMaN
NS_Eniant - Nemesis Zero
NS_Trane - Heist
NS_Fenris - -Sir_Pepe-
NS_Goliath - Tzarcon
NS_Origin - Cadaver
NS_Terra - rhubarb ??
NS_? (current working name is ns_russian01c) - Fortuna Wolf
NS_Cilrais - humb1ed
NS_Aerie - Cash Car Star
NS_Arcturus - Venomus
NS_Excession - G0rebash
NS_Maru - Gun_Sgt_Hartman
NS_Starved - Toothy
NS_Massmurder - Endolaylith
NS_Rift - BiTMAP
These are currently all the maps that are in 1.1 testing at the moment, courtesy Paladin.
LM
From what I have observed, the game really determines the community. I know some people who are hardcore deathmatchers and they don't like NS. This is because of their personality type. They don't have the patience to play NS or learn to play it. I think that the game it self will and has filtered out the players that fit the game. If people don't play the game with teamwork and their brains, they won't win. It has been my observations that when people don't win, they don't like to play. Then they just stop playing!
As long as NS stays the strategy and team based game that it is, te community will fit. Personally, I think that CS has the community that fits it. It's a game for the masses now, and that's exactly what it has, the masses. NS is a game for the teamplayers.
I still play CS (flame proof suit already on)... ...(hopefully I didn’t actually have to use it...)
And I notice that good CS players ARE team workers. (Except in some crappy maps) cs is a good game, but the people don't play it like they are supposed to... I play CS and I am guilty of ramboing (but that’s because my team didn’t help anyways), but if you play with other good players the experience can be MUCH MORE PLESANT. I only play on certain servers because I can’t take the cs community. These servers are clan servers and usually have GOOD players. I play CS and at the same time hate the average CS player. Heh well at least I can (own... crosout that word) defeat them...
As for 1.1 I feel it will be a good thing...
I fell that the ns team is trying to add more depth into this game. Currently I feel that the strategies that are available and viable are limited and the game far from completely promoting team play... I feel the changes are designed to affect the strategy and create a more thoughtful in depth playing experience. This time though I hope that the ns team will not listen to the complaints of the balance...
I remember in the first release the testers had thoroughly tested the balance and I feel that the changes to 1.4 should have not been made so quickly. I feel this way because I believe the testers balancing the game are a more accurate gauge of balance than the newbish community. It was a new game so how could the inexperienced community really tell if the game was actually balanced. And yet they listened anyways. I hope this time the ns team will listen to the beta testers and be more cautious about game play changes. I do not want to see the inexperienced community of v 1.1 destroy the balancing work of the more experienced beta testers (for they will have had developed the strategies and mastered the balance of 1.1)
and if the patch does make the game have a more deep strategy then i believe it will cause more players to leave and only attract the more strategic gamming croud...
The Game will be so different from what they will have trouble playing it, like when people tried comm'ing at first the sucked because they didnt know the tech tree, how to pace your advance, what to expect, ect. The aliens originally won most of the time (when i played) because it was more independant and similar to what they had played before in other games (sort of). Later, once players got used to the system, the 'rines caught up (and to some supereceded) the aleins. What I afraid of simply is that people will try it out and form a decision to early to be very accurate. They will start complaining about such and such without really get the expreince behind their decision. I think that 1.1 may acctually be easier for Noobs than some veterins because they wont be dependant on the OLD tried and true methods. The JP rush may be made obsolete in 1.1, but for a month therafter you know comms are going to keep trying it. And they will complain about how the 'rines now suck on the forums without trying anything different. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BIGNO! Another good point I didn't <i>really</i> mention.
Hopefully I'm wrong about most of this.
(please god) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please refrain from using CS as some sort of umbrella term for undesirable players. As a previous poster mentioned bad/immature players are fact of life in <b> any game.</b> Also as previously mentioned there is a distinct wave of intolerance for new players on alot of NS servers, with the dreaded "n00b" label thrown around far too quickly. In other words this community does not exactly consist of benevolent monks now does it ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Peronally, I'd like to meet the person that started the "noob", "n00b", "nub", etc. "words" and slap him around a few.
It's "newbie", ok people?
I just remember the good 'ol beta CS days... Sigh.
When CS was fun.
Now, sure... I started when beta 3 came out... loved it 'til around beta 7.1 came out.
When it went retail(v1.0), it went downhill.
Anyway... I don't wanna get into it.
I just remember the good 'ol beta CS days... Sigh.
When CS was fun.
Now, sure... I started when beta 3 came out... loved it 'til around beta 7.1 came out.
When it went retail(v1.0), it went downhill.
Anyway... I don't wanna get into it.
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I started at around CS beta 4.0. This was in South Africa so we had a tiny community going. Was alot of fun. To this day I still expect the "flinch animations" when people get hit... very sad at their removal I was. Retail really killed the creativity aspect I'm afraid.
Fortunately NS does not have any restraints of that sort which is great. I'm very positive about the future of the mod.
I don't think the NS "community" is something to be proud of. I've always seen it as elitist, condescending and authoritarian. I hope that 1.1 will bring some serious "play-to-win" players back who left due to non-existent gameplay balance.
<condescending>Pfft, you would think that. Peon.</condescending>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I hope that 1.1 will bring some serious "play-to-win" players back who left due to non-existent gameplay balance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A "play-to-win player" is a contradiction. I always thought the idea of a game was "play-to-have-fun"
N.B This isn't a flame. Take it light-hearted.
But you can play to win and still have fun. And it can be annoying (bad for fun) when you have people on your team who do not play to win (n00b* goes gorge, puts sensory chamber on top of resource node).
That's the difference between toys and games, toys are just for fun, games are for fun but you can also win/lose. Of course, you can play games as if they were toys, start up a server yourself and play with chamber stacking, have fun flying around with a jetpack, but that's not really what NS is about.
* n00b and newbie aren't quite the same. Newbie is fairly neutral, just means they're new to the game. N00b has a strong negative feeling attached, it's more for those who don't know a thing about the game but insist they know everything best and refuse to take advice from more experienced players.
These people should not be wanted in NS. Ever. I'd like to think I'm quite good, but I don't ever dance on someone's grave about it, and I'll happily throw down a Sensory first after 4-5 rounds of DMS, just for the variety in game. If you lose, so what? It was one round in a game, that you're meant to be playing for <b>your own enjoyment</b>, not to better your ego. It was only one round, gawd, and you got to try something a little weird/fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's my style of play, and I think it's distinctly different to the type of 'fun' displayed when..
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[FACT] - Be scared of the cuddly emoticon!
"Get him lads!"
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<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <img src='http://watmm.com/forum/html/emoticons/rhubear2.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
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No, if repeating the same tactic over and over again works, that tactic is overpowered and the game is broken. The serious gamers get bored and leave the game. That's exactly what 1.1 must rectify. The predetermined order of DMS was one of the major downfalls. Whom were you kidding when you put up S first? The game itself provided no variety, so you had to do silly things deliberately to spice it up.
Regarding exploits, I admit that "play-to-win" people are more prone to give in to the temptation than the purists, but hell, obnoxious view obstructions for balance reasons really <i>were</i> a nuisance. I would never use outright cheats, but deactivating those sprites felt like a <i>liberation</i>.
But why would "play-for-fun" people care, I wonder? You can have fun even if I turn the view model off, can't you? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Dunno why you'd be afraid of things that will make the game more fun to play.
Squeak, its just how the game is made. In NS you won't find these circumstances as skill deviation is not as broad, there are no headshots and all weapons are viable. Thus, less frustration. Me thinks, squeak, that most CS players are wonderful people when they play other games! Squeak.
Just my eh, 2 cents, squeak.
Squeak, squeak, Squeak.
squeak. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations! You've discovered a 100% guaranteed way of getting people to skip right past your posts!
Seriously, knock off the squeak interjections. It's as bad as puttin lame [FACT] messages on posts.
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/me sniggers.