Ns_maru Beta 1 Released

Green_Meat · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Feedback Welcome</div> I have released the first beta version of Ns-Maru. You can download it here:

<a href='http://team-mvp.org/ns/ns_maru_b1.zip' target='_blank'>The Kobayashi Maru</a>

Here's a preview of what your downloading:

<img src='http://team-mvp.org/ns/maru07.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

<img src='http://team-mvp.org/ns/maru09.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

<img src='http://team-mvp.org/ns/maru14.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Lemme jknow what ya'll think,
GSH

Ollj · March 2003

I dont like that I found no way into the hives without using welder or jetpack.
Hives seem to be too close to each other wich causes that the most exciting Marines/aliens 1:2 hive ratio looks impossible - map plays more like ns_siege.
That map really shows a good usage of textures and atmospheric architecture. A bit too clean and open on some places, nice functional detail on other places.
The water looks to bright for the less light around it, use a darker texture or make it transparent.
Symetric simple layout is nice, its easy to find your ways, looks ballanced (apart from hive placement) but can need some more differences (flickering/missing lights for example).

Green_Meat · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I dont like that I found no way into the hives without using welder or jetpack.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Heh, heh. Yea, I didn't think marine lovers would like being locked out of the hives. I didn't want quick rushes to end the map. That's why the marine start is setup so that it's easily defendable against the rush. One thing to remember is that the doors can be left open by careless aliens, so, if the marines move in and setup shop in one of the hives in the first four minutes of the game, then it is a direc result of poor planning and execution on the aliens side.''

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Hives seem to be too close to each other wich causes that the most exciting Marines/aliens 1:2 hive ratio looks impossible - map plays more like ns_siege.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The hives are suppose to be close together, because I specificly didn't want the 1:2 ratio to play out every time. I'm trying to develope the map into a "full-tech" sytle of map in which full tech is sustainable by both enemies simultaniously. The reason why I did this is because It always seems like when you get the high-tech toy or evo, there's no-one worth using it on because the other team has side down the slope already.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>That map really shows a good usage of textures and atmospheric architecture. A bit too clean and open on some places, nice functional detail on other places.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Thankyou very much, i'm glad you like it. I agree that there are spots that still need more detail, but I wanted to get this thing out the and playtested. More fluff will be added for the beta 2 release. In other spots, however, I have specificly tried to leave the archetecture smooth, so that skulks have less difficulty navigating on the walls and ceiling. One of my biggest pet peeves with NS maps is getting hung on little detail peices that don't server any pupose, so I try to minimize areas like that as much as possible in Maru.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The water looks to bright for the less light around it, use a darker texture or make it transparent.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

That's some really great feedback, I'll take a second look at it with your eyes this time, and see if I can't make it a little better looking.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Symetric simple layout is nice, its easy to find your ways, looks ballanced (apart from hive placement) but can need some more differences (flickering/missing lights for example)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yea, I was real happy with how well the map layed out. I think it will be balanced but it will take a learning curve first because the map isn't designed to play the way people have been playing the NS maps. Of course I will be going back through and making distinctive lighting and structural changes to differentiate between Port and Starboard, but I didn't want to old up release of the map for relatively minor things likes that.

What did you think of the overall lighting. That is one of my main concerns because my video card and monitor have a way of playing tricks with my gamma. Were there any spots that just seemed way too dark?

Thanks for the feedback man,
GSH

The_Real_Quasar · March 2003

This post made no sense to anyone but me. So i removed it.

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

I like it. I've played it with -={DG}=- Deadly Killer thismorning 1v1. He won. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> I do like the Res node that needs to be welded to get to. It could use more hallways going to the hives though. He set up allot of OC's and it killed me. I had fun. It might be better if there were more people. (come on peeps dl it)

Green_Meat · March 2003

We just played over at DG and we were able to sustain high-tech on both sides for well over 30 minutes! It was great! Big onos vs HMG/GL super battles! I commed to give the Marines the best possible chance and I think everyone had fun. We ended up loosing, but only because we overextended on an attack on the Port Hive and they flanked my forward guys and Onos rushes the main base. It was HAAAAARD CORE! Definately try it out with a big crowd sometime.

GSH

PS - Quasar: You totally lost me man. I got the name (and concept) from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn (the best Star Trek movie) in which Lt. Savik faces The Kobayashi Maru "No Win" Scenario in the opening scene.

What were you talking about? You've got me throughly curiosified. (yep, new word, it's MINE!)

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

Yea I was playing on that game. It was fun. Lasted a while and we got all of the upgrades.
P.S. I made ns_leap its fun

Green_Meat · March 2003

gota link to it?

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

Yep
<a href='http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/screenies/ns_leap_beta2.zip' target='_blank'>ns_leap_beta2</a>
get it on DG server plz

Liku · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gimpy Doodly Doo @ Mar 18 2003, 12:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yep
<a href='http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/screenies/ns_leap_beta2.zip' target='_blank'>ns_leap_beta2</a>
get it on DG server plz  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
ns_leap beta 1 is out of the pack and beta 2 is now in. Hartman, you don't mind if your map's in my pack do you?

Green_Meat · March 2003

Nah! Go for it, just remeber to include the text file with it.

GSH

Green_Meat · March 2003

We've gotten some really good testing done over at -={DG}=- and the map has played as expected with small (2v2) and medium crowds (6v6), but I still need someone to try it out on a huge crowd. Any takers?

GSH

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

I've allready told u this but it is on a 18 player server. Cant think of the name tho.

Green_Meat · March 2003

Yea, I'm gonna look for that one tonite. If you don't see me at -={DG}=-,then that is where I'll be. If you find the name of the server, please post it.

Thanks man,
GSH

Count_Zeno · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gun_Sgt_Hartman @ Mar 19 2003, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yea, I'm gonna look for that one tonite. If you don't see me at -={DG}=-,then that is where I'll be. If you find the name of the server, please post it.

Thanks man,
GSH</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I think it is possible that the server he is talking about is MBGames -- Mayberry RFD. It is on the server -- although not in rotation -- and it has been voted in several times.

I have only played it twice and in both of those games I was on the marine side. My initial impressions are favorable, but I think it is going to be a tough map for aliens to win. The two resources in the marine start make teching a little too easy for the marines. That is compounded by the fact that the hive areas tend to have two nozzels as well. Both of the games I played found the marines taking control of Starboard Engine very quickly and holding it for most of the game. That gave them four resource towers. We spent a good chunk of the game with more resources than we knew what to do with (partly due to a very slow commander who didn't make quick use of them). On an 18 player server, the resouce issues really do make a difference.

In both games I only saw two (if I recall correctly) Onos due to the fact that we could reliably hold Starboard most of the time. We lost it just long enough for the Kharaa to get a hive up, evolve a couple of Onos, and then have us destroy it again. The Onos were dealt with pretty fast by JP/HMG marines together with HA/HMG marines. The games were mostly long battles between fades and high tech marines, but that is ultimately a losing proposition for aliens.

The main complaint I have heard is that the map is too dark. It seems okay to me, but I have the same experience with Napo. I don't have my gamma cranked up, so I don't know what the issue is.

If you are interested, drop by and register for the server forums at <a href='http://www.mayberrygames.com' target='_blank'>www.mayberrygames.com</a>. There is already a feedback thread started over there. Hopefully some of our regular players will be posting their critiques.

Cheers
Z

Liku · March 2003

Ok, I tested the map and I found only one Hive. Is there any more? And when I tried to weld some doors shut there were missing textures and the door was still openable.

Green_Meat · March 2003

Thank you Count Zeno! Your the man. Awesome feedback too. I very much apreciate it. I'll be there in a bit when I'm done cruising the forums.

I'm interested in how you guys were getting into the aft of the ship. Were you rushing with welders, or waiting for JPs? Did the res boost make JPs come REAL quick? (Like, less that 8 minutes?) How much resistance did you encounter trying to breech the aft section? Was there any particular area where you were able to slaughter the aliens because of the location?

Were you taking an unoccupied hive? Or did you have to drive out some infestation to take the hive?

Did you not even bother with Cryo, Life support, or Air Lock res nodes, or go straight for the hive nodes?

What initial base defense were ya'll setting up? How long until you had a TF?

Is there any more you can tell me about how the play went?

Thanks for all of the great info man. You rock.

Liku:

Send me a screeny of that missing texture if you can, or just give me a better idea of where you found it. The hives are pretty close together man, all you gotta do is go to the back of the ship. If you saw one, then you were a 15 sec walk to the next one. I don't know what to tell you except look a little harder.

The welds do have a known glitch related to the round restart glich (some forum whiz track down a link to that thread if you would, i can't ever find anything in these forums). I am hoping that the 1.1 release will fix that along with the mystery hive sound at the 0,0,0 location.

**OH wait! - Just re-read your post** Mappers note, there are no doors which can be welded shut. Somebody else assumed this so now I have to figure out a way to make that obvious. There are only four doors which the welder works on, and those are the ones that lead to the aft of the ship (they have mettle plates over the control panel). They are suppose to be "sealing" the infestation in the back of the ship (when the marines arrive). That was the idea anyway. Apparently that isn't plain enough because your not the only one whos made that (very logical) assumtion. How can I show that those buttons have no welding ability? Keep in mind I'm already .75 over the texture limit as it is, so I can't add any new textures at all.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

GSH

Green_Meat · March 2003

Got an overview made of the map, figured I'd post it. Check it out.

<img src='http://team-mvp.org/ns/maru_map.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Also, those cool dudes over at <a href='http://www.mayberrygames.com' target='_blank'>Mayberry Games</a> have the cool habit of packing up mappers zips into automatic installers (sorry Bio, they beat ya to it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> ). I snagged the one for maru and mirrored it <a href='http://team-mvp.org/ns/ns_maru_b1.exe' target='_blank'>here.</a>

Helpful info or shameless bump? You be the judge.

GSH

mikachu · March 2003

i'm not sure if your entity count could stand addition but you could always have a model in the vicinity of the "un-weld" acting as a hologram with some funky text written on it, something to the effect "this area has been sealed due to contamination detection, un-locking highly hazardous to health" a simple 2 triangle model would do the trick, i believe several maps feature signs fashioned that way in order to have them look fancy.

and even if you are that much over the texture limit, is it really that bad to add a 128*64 decal that you can apply close to the buttons? maybe you could take out a repeating texture or two.... i shall d/l the map to take a look. sounds really really cool considering the lack of extended games lately.

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

For God's sake man! Think of the Onos's!
You have two choices here.
<ul>
<li>Make Onos's smaller
<li>Make hallways and Doors bigger
</ul>
The first one is out of your controll, The second one though...
You might have made it that way on purpose but dang I cot killed by one marine with no jp and no ha that had a HMG! Did you do this on purpose? Or did you not think of the Onos in us all? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

Ok, here I know you know now. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=26988' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=4&t=26988</a>

Green_Meat · March 2003

Yep, i'm on it, bigger halls all around. The doors will still be a ducking spot, but either an onos will be able to gallop thru the hall or not get in at all.

GSH

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

Why duck? Ducking is what killed me! it makes you slow.

Green_Meat · March 2003

Three reasons on the doors:

1) The "back-story" reason: The doors are for people, not onos. You should be happy to get thru them at all.

2) The mappers reason: All of the doors are already built and the size was greatly dependant on the door texture. To change the doors would require a HUGE amount of rebuilding and retexturing which I don't really want to do. Call me lazy, its an accurate description.

3) The Marine's reason: The freaking onos will be stomping all over us now! At least we might have a chance if we catch em coming through a door!

Keep in mind, when I say door, I mean only doors that open/close. Any other opening that has no door will either be made much bigger or much smaller, so that an onos can either run though it or not get in at all.

GSH

Gimpy_Doodly_Doo · March 2003

Ok, I still think that 4 the tech battle idea of the game it is a good idea to let onos in foors a little more. Onos is the (I dont know if you would call it this but...) ultimate teck for the aliens. And to be slowed down by doors? There is almost no point to get onos if you cant even get into the base and kill stuff. onos is like a wrecking ball not a fighter. It is ment to destroy stuff and not be killed by a lmg because it keeps geting stuck in doors! and either cant get to the marines or away from them fast enough. Dont meen to soung angry though. Just a thought. I know you gave this map your share.

dwfoxw · March 2003

i was wondering what is the address of the -={DG}=- server.

Ns_maru Beta 1 Released

Comments