Maping Questions #1
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Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
<div class="IPBDescription">technicalities ...</div> I want to map for NS so I'm reading a few things. With this reading, I have a few questions. These are the first ones I have as I'm sure I'll have others (that's why my post title is with '#1'). I'm used to map for all Quake games so the transition isn't that hard and it will help speed up the NS maping learning process. So here goes :
1)<b>NO build textures</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The tops of brushes which aren't part of the game area should have the NOBUILD texture on them, to stop commanders from being able to place constructions on the tops of walls. This texture should be scaled up to 64x64 and then centered on the face, to help keep r_speeds low.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : so to prevent any exploits of areas outside the ship/hall (into space), would covering that area with a brush textured No-BUild be sufficient ?
2)<b>Player sizes</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The player sizes for every player is as follows:
32x32x72 (Half-life player size) - Used for standing marine, standing level 4 alien and crouching level 5 alien.
32x32x36 (Half-life crouching player)- Used for crouching marine and crouching level 4 alien. The level 1, 2 and 3 aliens can't crouch, so they are always this size.
64x64x108 - Used for the level 5 alien when standing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : Are these values still good ? I think I read somewhere about slightly different ones.
3)<b>team_hive parms</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Hit points</b>: This is how much damage a hive can take before it dies. When all of an alien team's hives are destroyed, they can no longer respawn or get points. The alien team could still win though...the team that outlives the other is the winner.
<b>Armor value</b>: How much armor the hive has. Armor lessens the damage the hive takes, the same way armor protects the player (and monsters) in Half-life.
<b>Target on spawn</b> - This trigger fires when a hive comes "online". This can be used to seal off the hive location with a mucus membrane or something to show that a hive is trying to grow there. This prevents players from seeing a hive area that has been constructed to look like a hive is there. After the hive is destroyed, it should look OK to have the area look like a hive was there at one point. This can also be used for other dramatic hive effects. This target fires with as a "toggle".
<b>Target on death</b> - This trigger is fired when an active hive is killed. This can also be used for other dramatic hive effects. This target fires with as a "toggle".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question #1: what are the usual values of Hit Points/Armor values ?
Question #2: I've been playing NS for months now and I've never seen any map using those targets. Are they still usable ?
4)<b>team_command triggers</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>commandstationuse1, commandstationuse2</b>: When a player logs into a command station. For instance, if a player on team 2 logs into a commandstation, commandstationuse2 is fired.
<b>commandstationlogout1, commandstationlogout2</b>: When a player on a team hits the logout button. This could be used for some type of atmospheric effects, like a lighted sign that says "Command station in use".
<b>commandstationdestroyed1, commandstationdestroyed2</b>: When a command station is destroyed, use this target to trigger other shutdown sequences, or to have some type of map change.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : same as 4)-Question #2
5)<b>Compiling with hulls</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because of the various sizes of player models in Natural Selection, CSG requires a new hull file for the collision detection in a map. This is a fairly simply process. Just add the switch "-hullfile c:\sierra\half-life\nstr\nshulls.txt" to CSG's parameters (changing the path to reflect your local path of course). This is necessary so collision detection works properly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : is this still needed ?
6)<b>special compiling tool</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There have been changes to the tools to facilitate mapping for NS. These tools are included with the NSTR and are documented as well. Check the docs folder where you installed the NSTR for more information.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : Since the NSTR was only for the beta relase of NS and was told to be not needed for mapers, then can any other compiling tools do or is there a special one to use ?
7)<b>See through functions</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alpha for commanders (0-255) - This is the alpha value set in the entity when viewed by the commander. A value of 0 means the entity becomes totally invisible, a value of 255 means the entity is viewed normally.
Alpha for players (0-255) - This is the alpha value for the entity when seen by a player on the ground.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : so for any see through functions, I can enable the players to see through any brush (depending on value) ? Why not make this work in function with the observatory station. When a certain upgrade is up on the observatory, then palyers could see through with the supplied value of that see through function.
8)<b>building time of equipements while testing map</b>
Question : while testing a small map, I noticed that building was about 1 sec instead of the usual 20-30 sec. I had no bots and players. Is this normal or is there an overall options for the time required to build any equipement ?
9)<b>View height (for commander)</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is the height that the commander will view the world from. Make sure there are no world brushes or entities near this height level or the commander could collide with it. Make sure that the r_speeds stay around 500 for the whole map for the commander (easier than it sounds).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : does this mean that the actual height value is the actual Z coordinate on the Worldspawn of the map or the relative height from the lowest floor of the whole map ?
10)<b>Creating the minimap</b>
Question : Which part of the structure will NS use to build the minimap ? In other words, is there a mean to prevent some brushes not be taken in consideration for this (like trimins, small brushes, wall equipement, ...) ?
11)<b>info_gameplay</b>
Question : is this used or are all the values taken from the server setup ?
12)<b>gathering ressources when no ressources are available</b>
My first map I did was just 2 simple room to test a few things. In it, I didn't have any ressources at all but still, the ressouce indicator was rising.
Question : why would that be the case ? If no ressource towers are up there shouldn't be any ressource gathering.
13)<b>map testing with bots</b>
Question : is this possible and if so, how ?
1)<b>NO build textures</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The tops of brushes which aren't part of the game area should have the NOBUILD texture on them, to stop commanders from being able to place constructions on the tops of walls. This texture should be scaled up to 64x64 and then centered on the face, to help keep r_speeds low.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : so to prevent any exploits of areas outside the ship/hall (into space), would covering that area with a brush textured No-BUild be sufficient ?
2)<b>Player sizes</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The player sizes for every player is as follows:
32x32x72 (Half-life player size) - Used for standing marine, standing level 4 alien and crouching level 5 alien.
32x32x36 (Half-life crouching player)- Used for crouching marine and crouching level 4 alien. The level 1, 2 and 3 aliens can't crouch, so they are always this size.
64x64x108 - Used for the level 5 alien when standing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : Are these values still good ? I think I read somewhere about slightly different ones.
3)<b>team_hive parms</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Hit points</b>: This is how much damage a hive can take before it dies. When all of an alien team's hives are destroyed, they can no longer respawn or get points. The alien team could still win though...the team that outlives the other is the winner.
<b>Armor value</b>: How much armor the hive has. Armor lessens the damage the hive takes, the same way armor protects the player (and monsters) in Half-life.
<b>Target on spawn</b> - This trigger fires when a hive comes "online". This can be used to seal off the hive location with a mucus membrane or something to show that a hive is trying to grow there. This prevents players from seeing a hive area that has been constructed to look like a hive is there. After the hive is destroyed, it should look OK to have the area look like a hive was there at one point. This can also be used for other dramatic hive effects. This target fires with as a "toggle".
<b>Target on death</b> - This trigger is fired when an active hive is killed. This can also be used for other dramatic hive effects. This target fires with as a "toggle".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question #1: what are the usual values of Hit Points/Armor values ?
Question #2: I've been playing NS for months now and I've never seen any map using those targets. Are they still usable ?
4)<b>team_command triggers</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>commandstationuse1, commandstationuse2</b>: When a player logs into a command station. For instance, if a player on team 2 logs into a commandstation, commandstationuse2 is fired.
<b>commandstationlogout1, commandstationlogout2</b>: When a player on a team hits the logout button. This could be used for some type of atmospheric effects, like a lighted sign that says "Command station in use".
<b>commandstationdestroyed1, commandstationdestroyed2</b>: When a command station is destroyed, use this target to trigger other shutdown sequences, or to have some type of map change.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : same as 4)-Question #2
5)<b>Compiling with hulls</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Because of the various sizes of player models in Natural Selection, CSG requires a new hull file for the collision detection in a map. This is a fairly simply process. Just add the switch "-hullfile c:\sierra\half-life\nstr\nshulls.txt" to CSG's parameters (changing the path to reflect your local path of course). This is necessary so collision detection works properly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : is this still needed ?
6)<b>special compiling tool</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There have been changes to the tools to facilitate mapping for NS. These tools are included with the NSTR and are documented as well. Check the docs folder where you installed the NSTR for more information.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : Since the NSTR was only for the beta relase of NS and was told to be not needed for mapers, then can any other compiling tools do or is there a special one to use ?
7)<b>See through functions</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alpha for commanders (0-255) - This is the alpha value set in the entity when viewed by the commander. A value of 0 means the entity becomes totally invisible, a value of 255 means the entity is viewed normally.
Alpha for players (0-255) - This is the alpha value for the entity when seen by a player on the ground.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : so for any see through functions, I can enable the players to see through any brush (depending on value) ? Why not make this work in function with the observatory station. When a certain upgrade is up on the observatory, then palyers could see through with the supplied value of that see through function.
8)<b>building time of equipements while testing map</b>
Question : while testing a small map, I noticed that building was about 1 sec instead of the usual 20-30 sec. I had no bots and players. Is this normal or is there an overall options for the time required to build any equipement ?
9)<b>View height (for commander)</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is the height that the commander will view the world from. Make sure there are no world brushes or entities near this height level or the commander could collide with it. Make sure that the r_speeds stay around 500 for the whole map for the commander (easier than it sounds).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Question : does this mean that the actual height value is the actual Z coordinate on the Worldspawn of the map or the relative height from the lowest floor of the whole map ?
10)<b>Creating the minimap</b>
Question : Which part of the structure will NS use to build the minimap ? In other words, is there a mean to prevent some brushes not be taken in consideration for this (like trimins, small brushes, wall equipement, ...) ?
11)<b>info_gameplay</b>
Question : is this used or are all the values taken from the server setup ?
12)<b>gathering ressources when no ressources are available</b>
My first map I did was just 2 simple room to test a few things. In it, I didn't have any ressources at all but still, the ressouce indicator was rising.
Question : why would that be the case ? If no ressource towers are up there shouldn't be any ressource gathering.
13)<b>map testing with bots</b>
Question : is this possible and if so, how ?
Comments
8: When sv_cheats is set to 1 everything builds very fast.
9: From 0 on the z axis
10: Everywhere that is "hollow", meaning walls all round it, will be in the minimap.
12: You still get a few res a minute even with no RTs.
That's all i can answer.
2) Yes
3a) Irrelevant as it doesn't accept changes from the default anyway
3b) Yes, but they are unpredicatable because of reseting at the start of a new round.
4b) Yes, they are usable
5) Yes
6) The 'special' tool is now the standard, Zoner's compile tools version 1.7 (I think)
7) You can do the see-through thing with normal half-life entites, the distinction for NS is that it is to diferentiate between the commander and the players on the ground.
There are no triggers related to tech-tree development (not that Flayra's told us about anyway). You might want to suggest that in the ideas forum, but motion tracking kind of does that anyway.
8) Starting with the -dev parameter puts on a fast building mode to help with map testing.
9) The view height of the commander is in units above the origin of the worldspawn.
10) The minimap uses the same technique it uses to see if the commander can build there, for every single point on the map.
I don't think there's any way to tell it to ignor features. You can modify the sprite later, by using the HL sprite viewer to export it.
11) The only usefull feature is the number of hives to spawn on start up and that's only good for testing an 'fun' maps.
12) both teams still get a very slow income even if they have no resource gatherers, allowing for those last minute comebacks. The rate is faster when in dev mode to help testing.
13) There are bot out there, sorry I don't have any URLs.
Tell me Browser, have you mapped for half-life before?
Looks like you've already read <a href='http://nsworld.ns-central.co.uk/mappingguide/MappingGuide.php' target='_blank'>this</a>, but i'm adding the link just in case.
I was reading your link as of 20 min ago before you posted.
Nope, never maped for HL.
<a href='http://ns.valve-erc.com/?loc=tutorials&id=6' target='_blank'>http://ns.valve-erc.com/?loc=tutorials&id=6</a>
One other note, make sure that the "light-on" texture that your using doesn't appear in your lights.rad or it will give off its own light all of the time.
Your close to the right place with your link, try <a href='http://www.valve-erc.com' target='_blank'>Valve-ERC</a> for all of the basic all purpose Half-Life help.
GSH