Style Of Play
LordPerrin
Join Date: 2003-03-02 Member: 14233Members
Join Date: 2003-03-02 Member: 14233Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How it is - and how it is perceived</div> I was just reading a thread and it said that marines do not camp or ambush. I think that this is a misperception of the marine style of play, or at least how I feel that a marine team should operate. A marine team should not be the ones trying to close the distance to the kharaa. I think the marine style of play is more of a take-and-secure style, wherein the marines move into an area, and try to secure the area so that they can defend, which they are better at. A couple marines staring down a longer hallway will stop most anything, whereas the same two marines bunny hopping into a room full of skulks just isn't going to cut it.
Of course, if more people perceived it like this, it would be more reason to give the marines some new defensive weapons/structures/abilities, and require even more of a yin-yang balance for a commander. Your men are good at defensive operations, but you have to take ground or the Kharaa are just going to Onos your sorry ****. Maybe someone can work this into a suggestion post.
-LordPerrin
Of course, if more people perceived it like this, it would be more reason to give the marines some new defensive weapons/structures/abilities, and require even more of a yin-yang balance for a commander. Your men are good at defensive operations, but you have to take ground or the Kharaa are just going to Onos your sorry ****. Maybe someone can work this into a suggestion post.
-LordPerrin
Comments
/me camps in base with a welder... omg infinite building health hax
-LordPerrin
There are a lot of tactics that could be employed in NS that aren't, if not on a public level, then definitely on a clan level. But most people still play NS in much the same way that they play CS. i.e. You go here, you camp there, etc.
So in short, I don't like ambushing.
Of course, if more people perceived it like this, it would be more reason to give the marines some new defensive weapons/structures/abilities, and require even more of a yin-yang balance for a commander. Your men are good at defensive operations, but you have to take ground or the Kharaa are just going to Onos your sorry ****. Maybe someone can work this into a suggestion post.
-LordPerrin<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As in most things in life I believe the answer here is "it depends". I think an aggressive hive-rush marine approach is equally viable to a more cautious take-and-hold approach. The outcome of course depends on many factors such as Comm skill, marine skill, alien skill, marine equipment, alien upgrades etc etc.
A good marine with a shotgun is near god-like in the early game. Certainly not someone that would have to fear "closing the distance" with skulks (although obviously reckless play will still get you killed). In the later game a heavy with an hmg is certainly a force to be reckoned with. A jetpacker hive infiltrator can tip the scales in favour of marines at any time. My point here is that marines are quite capable of attacking just as well as defending... it all depends on what is happening at the time in-game.
As for your example of the two marines defending/attacking. I think the problem here is that you are comparing <b> good defensive tactics </b> versus <b> not so good offensive tactics</b>. If those same two guys tried a different room clearing strategy e.g. "classic decoy" where one guy puts himself at risk entering the room (possible retreating out again almost as soon as he enters) while the other guy covers him from some distance chances are the outcome will be more dead skulks (Especially if shotguns are involved).
That works even better if you've got a shotgun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And if you think people calling other people campers is bad, I was once accused of kill stealing. On the marine team. Who dont have scores. <i>sigh</i>
Basically, gear the kharaa to a more offensive role, gear the marines for a defensive one.
-LordPerrin
Basically, gear the kharaa to a more offensive role, gear the marines for a defensive one.
-LordPerrin <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still disagree here. I have personally witnessed very well defended areas being overrun by persistent Alien attacks. The reason the defense failed is largely due to a lack of any sort of counter-attack being put forth by the marines. Another reason is the continual demand placed on the commander for supplies and so forth. Eventually something is going to give here.
Don't get me wrong, defense is obviously a vital part of the marine game, but let me try and explain my point of view. Imagine a boxing match where one boxer defends and the other attacks continuously. Eventually the attacker is going to score, sooner or later. The reason is because the attacker is not put under any counter-pressure and can continue with his plans without any sort of disturbance. The instant he is counter-attacked the defender gets a breather because now the attacker has to deal with worries of his own. Similarly in NS, a balanced attack and defense go hand-in-glove. That group of marines putting pressure on one area (by attacking) will mean a weaker alien attack on a different area (marines defending).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that neither side should be more geared towards attack/defense because both are key to a winning strategy.
This is so very true its not even funny. Sure the clan play is better in terms of tactics but its still far from diverse. Tactics over all these days is made for the quick game. The faster the better. This is mainly because of cal and its faster half is giving the win in a tie situation. Just because of this rule the majority of strats created these days are for speed. This single cal rule has seriously hurt the concept of longer games. For the current rule set marines defending positions and prolonging the game isn't a viable solution for the clan scene. As for those people that don't think the clan scene has anything to do with pubs thats just naive. The vast majority of strats used in pubs now were clan originated. The only difference is pub games aren't as well oiled as clan games are and thus the strats fail more often and you end up with these long drawn out games that should have ended much sooner.
The thing is though "You go here, you camp there" is somewhat dependant on how well everyone knows a level/map. Once key positions have been determined then yes its more likely that they will be the ones used. This is hardly a CS-specific phenomenon.
I would be interested to know some of the tactics that you feel are lacking from the game. I've seen quite a few over the months of play and would be hard pressed to come up with something that is majorly different/profound and yet still effective.
Basically, I'd like to see more use of "fun" tactics in pubs, instead of JUST playing to win. For example... while the normal JP rush only takes 3 total res nodes to make it go smoothly, an interesting planned tactic would be to actively take and secure about half the res on the map and one hive. This would leave the aliens with the other half (right away of course, the res nodes would then become the key points in the game instead of the hive being the only major point). The marines could then tech up, and face the fades. Once in a blue moon i see HA/fade stage last half an hour or more... these are the most exciting types of games. This also illustrates my hopes of what 1.1 will bring in terms of statiegery ( <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ); longer games more focused on tactics and technology advancement, not on who can hover the longest with a jetpack or get the most skulks in one place.
Don't arbitrarily impose one team as defending and the other as offending. (heh)
I for one am ok with alien (I do well on barely competent teams) but I much prefer marine play.. and an *aggressive* style of play.
That is MY marine preference.
Aside from these there *are* long games, if both teams know what they are doing. Games can last forever, particularly on caged, where you can get 2 hour games full of good strats and tactics.
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Now back to fluidity.. let's say for example ns_eclipse. Assume aliens are at eclipse hive, then it seems that 4/5 times the comm/team says "go to maint". Then most of the time most of the team goes to maint and they spend some time blowing res on turret farming; meanwhile aliens take cc and then it is up to big tech firefight or whatever.
Instead of going to the farthest place and wasting res on farms, y not have people intercept aliens crossing the map? Camping, ambushing etc. If eclipse has low defense why not have someone spawn camp? Why not have someone attack RTs, distracting the aliens and crippling their economy? Why not have someone hunt the gorge?
And if eclipe hive was totally undefended, and then you could have the entire marine team rush in and shoot it, or have 1 guy sneak in and phase.
All the while you could be phasing maint and grabbing RTs or even farming if you like. I myself much prefer mines - again, even better if they are used offensively.
Fuk the defense.
-=/>
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