Expressing My Concern Over 1.1
Soldier_of_Misfortune
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11957Members
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11957Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Do not turn this into a flame war.</div> Alright here goes. The servers i play in now, marines win 1 out of every 4 games i play. I really don't give a crap about all the stuff most of you say about how "marines win all the time on the servers i play on" because i for one just play on random public servers. I have noticed after going through the 1.1 info thread and i'm really concerned here. 1.1 is going to be a major overhaul from what i have read, and i don't have a doubt in my mind that it is going to be good. However some of these things said is REALLY going to hamper the marine team. Let me go through a small chart real quick
Marine Advantages from 1.1 (so far)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Commander Mode Features
Grenade Launcher Model (not an advantage, but still cool)
Jetpack to counter onos (removal of paralyze? i hope...)
Marine Disadvantages/Alien Advantages
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onos devour ability
Alien resource model changes to speed up the early game and allow multiple gorges to be viable
Bunny hop exploit fixed
Lerk spike damage increased from 16 to 18
Changes to silence
Lerk clinging to wall/ceiling (i think)
Jetpacks are going to take longer to get and be a bit more expensive in NS v1.1
New tech tree for aliens suggestion
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, an organized marine team will destroy an alien team, especially on large servers. This imbalance will be quite thoroughly dealt with in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine building stacking fixed (no word on alien walls though)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Correction: the lack of a cap is a mistake. The pistol is supposed to be capped at 6 rounds/second. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, now before all of you hit "Add Reply" and flame the hell out of me saying "BUT THESE ARNT FINAL" and stuff like that, do consider this is all the information that i have got straight out of the "NS Version 1.1 Info" thread. This is going to require a LOT of balancing. Right now i find it a little unbalanced in the aliens favor, considering that i'm playing with just the run of the mill player, I am clanless, not a spectacular player myself, and in a server full of other casual people. Most of the time in the servers i play in marines win by: JP/HMGs, aliens getting off to a bad start, a really good commander / team, or quick firm control of two hives. Rarely have i seen marines be able to combat the massive rush of fades shortly after the second hive comes up. Most games i play, if we beat them after they have fades, it is because we are FAR technologically ahead of them after they get it. I'm talking weapon/armor upgrades.
Anyway i realize that these arn't final and not all the changes being done. However from what i've seen so far this is going to throw the balance off. <b>I am not saying that this will not be fixed and that these changes are not final.</b> Please spare me those type of posts. If this turns into a flame war i will close this thread myself. I do NOT want this to turn into a battle, just a discussion/argument because i know for a fact that half of this forum is going to disagree with me.
Discuss....
Marine Advantages from 1.1 (so far)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Commander Mode Features
Grenade Launcher Model (not an advantage, but still cool)
Jetpack to counter onos (removal of paralyze? i hope...)
Marine Disadvantages/Alien Advantages
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Onos devour ability
Alien resource model changes to speed up the early game and allow multiple gorges to be viable
Bunny hop exploit fixed
Lerk spike damage increased from 16 to 18
Changes to silence
Lerk clinging to wall/ceiling (i think)
Jetpacks are going to take longer to get and be a bit more expensive in NS v1.1
New tech tree for aliens suggestion
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, an organized marine team will destroy an alien team, especially on large servers. This imbalance will be quite thoroughly dealt with in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine building stacking fixed (no word on alien walls though)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Correction: the lack of a cap is a mistake. The pistol is supposed to be capped at 6 rounds/second. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, now before all of you hit "Add Reply" and flame the hell out of me saying "BUT THESE ARNT FINAL" and stuff like that, do consider this is all the information that i have got straight out of the "NS Version 1.1 Info" thread. This is going to require a LOT of balancing. Right now i find it a little unbalanced in the aliens favor, considering that i'm playing with just the run of the mill player, I am clanless, not a spectacular player myself, and in a server full of other casual people. Most of the time in the servers i play in marines win by: JP/HMGs, aliens getting off to a bad start, a really good commander / team, or quick firm control of two hives. Rarely have i seen marines be able to combat the massive rush of fades shortly after the second hive comes up. Most games i play, if we beat them after they have fades, it is because we are FAR technologically ahead of them after they get it. I'm talking weapon/armor upgrades.
Anyway i realize that these arn't final and not all the changes being done. However from what i've seen so far this is going to throw the balance off. <b>I am not saying that this will not be fixed and that these changes are not final.</b> Please spare me those type of posts. If this turns into a flame war i will close this thread myself. I do NOT want this to turn into a battle, just a discussion/argument because i know for a fact that half of this forum is going to disagree with me.
Discuss....
Comments
come on ppl! reply! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: seems i spoke too soon <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
1) these are NOT all the changes, as well as alot of those are simply rumors
2) why YES it will require ALOT of balancing, the PTs are getting their old jobs back.
1.1 is going to have a long wit, so you can cool your heals and not wory about it.
The PTs/devs learned from their mistakes and thus they can compensate this time.
and it probably will NOT be balanced on 1.1
but 1.11 will help that, and so will 1.12 etc.
and then 2.0 will probably have another overhaul.
lol, don't worry, I personaly trust the PTs and Devs, I think that they will make the game better (and seeing how as there is not much I can do to change what they are planing, I iwll stay optomistic)
oh, and WoL, nope so far as we can tell (this is hearsay) the alien chamber stacking will still be in. The idea is sorta an infestation stlye thing infest the door and it stops working, kinda like marines ability to weld stuff it just cost ALOT more for aliens)
Flayra = Pie Facist.
Any chance someone could accidently cntl-C it over here long enough for one of us to copy it to disk before it gets nuked?
then agian, mabey not ;D
then agian, mabey not ;D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, since MonsE is a sys admin, he could probably find out where you live if you hacked him.
And since he's an ex-marine, he could probably hunt you down and kill you...
Probably not worth the risk.... Probably....
then agian, mabey not ;D <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, since MonsE is a sys admin, he could probably find out where you live if you hacked him.
And since he's an ex-marine, he could probably hunt you down and kill you...
Probably not worth the risk.... Probably.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you know your stuff, MonSe won't even know that he has been hacked.
Any way, let's not speculate on what is going to happen to 1.1 until it is released and we have some experience playing it. No point passing comments when you don't even know what it is really like.
Of course, if you are a PT and have x^y hours of game time with 1.1, feel free to make your feelings known.
for when the screen is being spammed and your on a low resolution
for when the screen is being spammed and your on a low resolution <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that command exists, i use it. put these two commands in your shortcut or config for low resolutions:
hud_saytext_time 01
hud_deathnotice_time 01
now you can pwn just like the people with the $2000 rigs <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You cannot completely tailor to the demands of the public players, because the clan scene will be dissatisfied...and vise versa. The happy medium is a tough one to find, especially for a game like NS.
You cannot completely tailor to the demands of the public players, because the clan scene will be dissatisfied...and vise versa. The happy medium is a tough one to find, especially for a game like NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought they're making a "tournament" mode and a "public" mode. Would make sense to have two, to cater both types of people, the competitive players, and the do-it-for-fun players. If they aren't doing this already, they should consider it, although, I'm sure it would be much more work. The work would be worth it though, since you will add a totally new genre of people into the game.
Dont worry about it fellow formites, Flayra knows what he is doing...And lets be honest..Who here isnt excited about experiencing 1.1?
Yes, I'd say Flayra knows what he's doing. It'll be balanced.
Lol..say good-bye to on-topic <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Back on topic:
In games like Starcraft the balance shifts practically every patch. As one unit's cost is decreased, suddenly everyone is using xxx rushes. To all the people that compain about the balance think about it: you have 2 races that are completely different from each other (only thing they share is the need of rts) even Warcraft III's 4 races are more similar than that and I would call the game almost completely balanced.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->unhappy that a Onos was basically invincible being an assault and support unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this guy knows what hes talking about i assume, hes not griping about them being too powerful, they just shouldnt be powerful AND a support unit.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You are doing the same thing. we do not have enough info to make a judement, no matter what you think, until we get a complete changelog or release.
Quit assuming things and trust that flay is doing right.
you got a guy who (once your teched up) has 110 armor, hits for 27 DAMAGE PER ROUND and has 150 rounds PER MAG. Now, im not the best JPer but once i get it the only thing killing me is an onos who knows how to use para and the vary rare uber elite lurk. You get some of my friends with one and they will hunt down all 3 hives and end the game in minutes.
JP/HA,welder= fastest unit in game, best armed, mid range armor and can counter all but one of its threats easly (can weld webs, bypass alien buildings, run from good fades, outright gib lurks and sulks, just need to stay away form onos using para)
I never said that Warcaft was unbalanced, I said the 2 races of NS are <b>much</b> more different than the 4 races of WCIII and then I go on to say both games are almost completely balanced.
To try and steer things back on topic, <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> talking to some of the sYn guys who are pretty close to the dev team I hear, they said that 1.1 will make hundreds of viable strategies. Instead of either rush/tech up for Marines, there will be many different strategies for the Commander to use, all of which will be viable. Making multiple gorges for the Aliens viable is very similar to the changes happening to the Marine team.
Don't worry everyone, the remarkable amount of balance this game has shown so far, and from a team NOT making money from the use of it, speaks volumes about their level of skill and commitment and should leave no room for worries about the future versions.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I thought they're making a "tournament" mode and a "public" mode. Would make sense to have two, to cater both types of people, the competitive players, and the do-it-for-fun players. If they aren't doing this already, they should consider it, although, I'm sure it would be much more work. The work would be worth it though, since you will add a totally new genre of people into the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I definately read somewhere that this won't be the case as this would require TWICE the amount of playtesting and balancing as they would have to do each job for 2 versions of the same game. I think they are talented enough to provide balance for the lowly pub to the ultra l337
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->jeez, as is JP is the counter to the alien threat. Christ, one good JPer is a game winner peroid.
you got a guy who (once your teched up) has 110 armor, hits for 27 DAMAGE PER ROUND and has 150 rounds PER MAG.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why they're probably making the JP as they originally wanted it to be were you have to stand on the ground to recharge the fuel.