Ns- Research Study In Sociolgy
CplDavis
I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
<div class="IPBDescription">or, dont blame the game...</div> There have been several posts about the subject of the age of players and the marine win ratio. We can all hypothesize on a subject but we cant state facts until we investigate using the scientific method.
I recently completed a small study for my minor in sociology (major in Criminal Justice). It was an unassigned extra credit assignment on why the marines lose (or claim to) in Natural Selection. The hypothesis: Younger marine players will not win as often as older players.
I could post a 10 page document filled with sociology terms but Ill just get right to the point.
Several groups of people where divided up and “studied” independently over the course of several pre set game servers (so as to exclude the possibility of intrusions)
Group 1: New Players Any age
Group 2: Experienced players ages 10 – 17 (Control Group: Considering this seems to be the most dominant player age group.)
Group 3: Experienced players ages 18-27 And Clans
Group 4: Players who have either been in or are currently in the military.
Note: All alien antagonists were played by randomly selected players of various skill. Each group played 4 rounds on randomly selected maps.
The results
Group one: G1 was mostly compromised of new players with minimal knowledge of the game. The ages ranged from 12- 23 years old. Almost immediately age differences became apparent. Younger players tended to fall into 2 subgroups. One treated the game as one would in Counter-Strike or Day of Defeat. They used minimal teamwork and acted impulsive yet sometimes hasty (at times reckless) with unexpected problems. They responded with out organization when the aliens counter attacked with fades. The 2nd subgroup were more passive and tried to follow orders from the older newbie commander. In the end however group one was only as good as its worst Rambo player. This match ended after 22 minuets with a lot of harsh language, hacking accusations, and calling the commander a noob. Keep in mind they are all noobs. The older players took a more slow and cautious approach as they tried to figure the game out but this delay and the fact that ½ the team ran away on their own led to Group One’s Demise. G1 win ratio: 0-4
Group 2: G2 was the control group. This group constitutes statistically the greatest amount of half life mod players. The skill range was moderate to skilled. Age group is 10-17. Like the first group this group suffered from the Rambo affect. However it was more limited this time. There was a greater reliance on teamwork this time around. The commander had an adequate experience base. (2 Players alternated every game at the teams request.) This team had the twitch skill but they had some minor problems with the follow through. They organized themselves into 2 squads. S1 would take resources and S2 would capture a hive. The Hive group got to its objective however the resource half kept getting bogged down by running off to chase every alien that would show its face. Minuets later the aliens skulk rushed the base (This is NS_Bast) The Hive Squad had to return to defend the base while the scattered resource squad got picked off one by one. The commanders over the course of 4 games could not retain control over the team. Additionally several players didn’t have the self-control to stay with their objectives.
Even with this problem G2 demonstrated an overall improvement. Players demonstrated a better aptitude for team work and while the Rambo problem still existed with people around the 13-16 range it was somewhat minimized due to experienced commanders and teammates. Commander bashing still exists here to a moderate extent. G2’s Overall win record: 1.5-3.5 I say 1.5 b/c if you saw the game they where soooo close at one point and they lost by sheer dumb luck. So 1-4 technically
Group 3: Experienced players ages 18-27 And Clans
These groups results where too close so I grouped them together.
Hardcore clans (Tryouts, practices, matches, etc) and Older players did noticeably well. They demonstrated good teamwork, sacrifice, and a playing style that was both aggressive as well as thought out. Older players reacted more calmly during unexpected circumstances. When the base was under attack no one panicked, and a thought out response took place. The one biggest change that the older groups as well as a couple younger but highly skilled clan members was that they could think ahead. Other younger players seemed to have a single mentality of WIN WIN WIN but not for the team but for themelves. Who can kill the most aliens? (Even though marine scores are not shown). Here there was sacrifice for the betterment of the team. Parasited marines ran deception missions or guarded key known points (The aliens knew a marine was there anyways). Younger players simply killed themselves and wasted the valuable HA and HMGs they where given. Older players and Clan members were more open to new ideas and improvisation. Ex. In Eclipse they entire marine team built one IP then immediately moved the base to the Maintence Hive from there they quickly took over the Computer Core Hive. With the aliens attacking with nothing but Lerks and Skulks the marines quickly moped up with nothing more then upgraded lvl 3 LMGS and lvl 2 armour.
Over all the older players took responsibility for their actions. If someone messed up they admitted it rather then blame someone else or the commander.
G3: Win ratio 3-1
Group 4: Players who have either been in or are currently in the military.
This was a fun group that I organized at a LAN party on campus just for fun. And there are a lot of these types of people in my college so I made use of them. Army, Marines, National Guard and an Airforce guys and one girl ( and a police officer too) who happen to like PC games as well, what a combo.
Anyways the player skill range for this group could be considered newbie status due to that fact that they had never played NS before. However they got the hang of it they immediately started to improvise. An army player who played a lot of Starcraft and Command and Conquer games was selected to be commander. They divided their 15-player team up into 4 teams. I’ll use their terms. They created four squads. of 4, 4, 4 and 3. The group of 3 was the command team. The commander and 2 to build and defend base.
The other 3 where designated fireteams. They went out to secure a hive and to get resources. They were a little slow at first but they caught on fast. One of the main differences I noticed was that when moving through infested territory they combined 2 fire teams and moved slowly. As in they walked. They each took a side of the hall way and they moved forward in covering leap frog patterns. It was pretty cool to watch. The back squad members covered the back. They got to the hive faster but then again they only lost 2 guys with one heavily wounded. Communication was limited to just the game. They didn’t use the voice chat feature like a free for all chat chatroom. No abortion debates here lol.. Problem solving and reactions where fast and coordinated. Another thing I noticed was that they fired in shorter bursts of fire. They also supplemented each fireteam with a wide variety of weapons. Not everyone got an HMG and it worked fine. A shotgun dealt with incoming skulks and the HMG took out larger farther our targets. The grenade launcher was used to take out turrets. MG ammo was not wasted on buildings. Teamwork was absolute. There are some clans that are like this as well. Considering their lack of NS experience they had a respectable 2-2. On the games they did lose, they made it very hard for the alien players to win and they extended one of these games for up too 24 minuets. No one F4ed out here.
Also. Its not the game that causes people to lose, its the players.
So there you have it. The results. It would seem that age does have some affect on how often the marines win in public servers. I say public because this experiment was aimed at the players who can be found in the standard “normal” everyday server.
Special thanks to Mr.Chickenman, Kain, and Becker!!!
NS players in my floor.
And to Mario for helping with the LAN game
Also to The several military-ex-military students and the lone cop for participating.
I recently completed a small study for my minor in sociology (major in Criminal Justice). It was an unassigned extra credit assignment on why the marines lose (or claim to) in Natural Selection. The hypothesis: Younger marine players will not win as often as older players.
I could post a 10 page document filled with sociology terms but Ill just get right to the point.
Several groups of people where divided up and “studied” independently over the course of several pre set game servers (so as to exclude the possibility of intrusions)
Group 1: New Players Any age
Group 2: Experienced players ages 10 – 17 (Control Group: Considering this seems to be the most dominant player age group.)
Group 3: Experienced players ages 18-27 And Clans
Group 4: Players who have either been in or are currently in the military.
Note: All alien antagonists were played by randomly selected players of various skill. Each group played 4 rounds on randomly selected maps.
The results
Group one: G1 was mostly compromised of new players with minimal knowledge of the game. The ages ranged from 12- 23 years old. Almost immediately age differences became apparent. Younger players tended to fall into 2 subgroups. One treated the game as one would in Counter-Strike or Day of Defeat. They used minimal teamwork and acted impulsive yet sometimes hasty (at times reckless) with unexpected problems. They responded with out organization when the aliens counter attacked with fades. The 2nd subgroup were more passive and tried to follow orders from the older newbie commander. In the end however group one was only as good as its worst Rambo player. This match ended after 22 minuets with a lot of harsh language, hacking accusations, and calling the commander a noob. Keep in mind they are all noobs. The older players took a more slow and cautious approach as they tried to figure the game out but this delay and the fact that ½ the team ran away on their own led to Group One’s Demise. G1 win ratio: 0-4
Group 2: G2 was the control group. This group constitutes statistically the greatest amount of half life mod players. The skill range was moderate to skilled. Age group is 10-17. Like the first group this group suffered from the Rambo affect. However it was more limited this time. There was a greater reliance on teamwork this time around. The commander had an adequate experience base. (2 Players alternated every game at the teams request.) This team had the twitch skill but they had some minor problems with the follow through. They organized themselves into 2 squads. S1 would take resources and S2 would capture a hive. The Hive group got to its objective however the resource half kept getting bogged down by running off to chase every alien that would show its face. Minuets later the aliens skulk rushed the base (This is NS_Bast) The Hive Squad had to return to defend the base while the scattered resource squad got picked off one by one. The commanders over the course of 4 games could not retain control over the team. Additionally several players didn’t have the self-control to stay with their objectives.
Even with this problem G2 demonstrated an overall improvement. Players demonstrated a better aptitude for team work and while the Rambo problem still existed with people around the 13-16 range it was somewhat minimized due to experienced commanders and teammates. Commander bashing still exists here to a moderate extent. G2’s Overall win record: 1.5-3.5 I say 1.5 b/c if you saw the game they where soooo close at one point and they lost by sheer dumb luck. So 1-4 technically
Group 3: Experienced players ages 18-27 And Clans
These groups results where too close so I grouped them together.
Hardcore clans (Tryouts, practices, matches, etc) and Older players did noticeably well. They demonstrated good teamwork, sacrifice, and a playing style that was both aggressive as well as thought out. Older players reacted more calmly during unexpected circumstances. When the base was under attack no one panicked, and a thought out response took place. The one biggest change that the older groups as well as a couple younger but highly skilled clan members was that they could think ahead. Other younger players seemed to have a single mentality of WIN WIN WIN but not for the team but for themelves. Who can kill the most aliens? (Even though marine scores are not shown). Here there was sacrifice for the betterment of the team. Parasited marines ran deception missions or guarded key known points (The aliens knew a marine was there anyways). Younger players simply killed themselves and wasted the valuable HA and HMGs they where given. Older players and Clan members were more open to new ideas and improvisation. Ex. In Eclipse they entire marine team built one IP then immediately moved the base to the Maintence Hive from there they quickly took over the Computer Core Hive. With the aliens attacking with nothing but Lerks and Skulks the marines quickly moped up with nothing more then upgraded lvl 3 LMGS and lvl 2 armour.
Over all the older players took responsibility for their actions. If someone messed up they admitted it rather then blame someone else or the commander.
G3: Win ratio 3-1
Group 4: Players who have either been in or are currently in the military.
This was a fun group that I organized at a LAN party on campus just for fun. And there are a lot of these types of people in my college so I made use of them. Army, Marines, National Guard and an Airforce guys and one girl ( and a police officer too) who happen to like PC games as well, what a combo.
Anyways the player skill range for this group could be considered newbie status due to that fact that they had never played NS before. However they got the hang of it they immediately started to improvise. An army player who played a lot of Starcraft and Command and Conquer games was selected to be commander. They divided their 15-player team up into 4 teams. I’ll use their terms. They created four squads. of 4, 4, 4 and 3. The group of 3 was the command team. The commander and 2 to build and defend base.
The other 3 where designated fireteams. They went out to secure a hive and to get resources. They were a little slow at first but they caught on fast. One of the main differences I noticed was that when moving through infested territory they combined 2 fire teams and moved slowly. As in they walked. They each took a side of the hall way and they moved forward in covering leap frog patterns. It was pretty cool to watch. The back squad members covered the back. They got to the hive faster but then again they only lost 2 guys with one heavily wounded. Communication was limited to just the game. They didn’t use the voice chat feature like a free for all chat chatroom. No abortion debates here lol.. Problem solving and reactions where fast and coordinated. Another thing I noticed was that they fired in shorter bursts of fire. They also supplemented each fireteam with a wide variety of weapons. Not everyone got an HMG and it worked fine. A shotgun dealt with incoming skulks and the HMG took out larger farther our targets. The grenade launcher was used to take out turrets. MG ammo was not wasted on buildings. Teamwork was absolute. There are some clans that are like this as well. Considering their lack of NS experience they had a respectable 2-2. On the games they did lose, they made it very hard for the alien players to win and they extended one of these games for up too 24 minuets. No one F4ed out here.
Also. Its not the game that causes people to lose, its the players.
So there you have it. The results. It would seem that age does have some affect on how often the marines win in public servers. I say public because this experiment was aimed at the players who can be found in the standard “normal” everyday server.
Special thanks to Mr.Chickenman, Kain, and Becker!!!
NS players in my floor.
And to Mario for helping with the LAN game
Also to The several military-ex-military students and the lone cop for participating.
Comments
that pretty much sums up what's happening. I bet sometime, when 1.2 probably rolls around, there will be less CS-based players and more NS-based gameplay.
I'm 18, one of the subgroup of group 2 (or really young group 3), I'm usually the base person building and repairing.
S
Almost takes the fun out of publics.
[/biggest sarcasm ever]
I still gotta fine tune and its not till next semester but what do you guys think ?
oh btw. I am a Psychology major.
But then NS came out and i havent played DoD since... DANG U NS TEAM! lol
apparently in S. Korea they mad a law that states it's illegal for minors to play any multiplayer game that involves 'killing' other real people. something to think about as well, it does hold some merit... 13yr old kids simply don't think yet, so if they are spending time shooting down their friends day after day you gotta wonder about the subconcious... anyways it works perfect for the american system, efficiently breeds soildiers from adolesense...... oh geeze I argued the wrong side of the argument didnt I... hmmm well anyways I've always liked games that were not simply human vs. human with real guns, we have enough of that crap in RL. Well I believe everything effects the sub-concious to one degree or another. However you have to compare the games to other forms of input... movies, tv, news, politics.... and then you have to look at the benifits of team based multiplayer gaming. Then just add in the constant evolution of society and there ya have it. Simple as pie.
what was the question?
US Army is quite good though. Rambo in that game and you're dead. Ghost Recon was pretty good as well, but still not good enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the teamwork and following orders parts of the training that helps the most.
As for CS, it used to be a much more strategic game. Pace was slower and people complaining about "camping" were almost non-existant. Then they made it more "accessible" to the public. =(
/me misses docks.
Anyway, in NS moving along spread out (different sides of the hallway) and covering each other really is best as marine. You don't block each other's line of fire and you can get some nice crossfire to cut down aliens fast.
<a href='http://www.geekboys.org/geekplay/' target='_blank'>http://www.geekboys.org/geekplay/</a>
But then NS came out and i havent played DoD since... DANG U NS TEAM! lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
96th ID? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I was in with ya! Great fun. Remember the training sessions we had? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
More on-topic: Excellent study. I'd love to play with the military team, I'm a hardcore team player.
Yes I did record demos, but unfortunatly the files are corrupted.
Yes there is a very solid player base consisting of 27-and older gamers I just never thought of that group when I did this study, sorry. However I would say from personal expiriences that they are exeptional team players and they too plan ahead effectivly. They dont talk to much (from my expiriences) but they play hard. I forget what President that said "Walk quietly and carry a big stick."
In response to Fire Water and Pdub
I would agree with points from both sides.
Yes as Pdub says, everything has to do with something and yes PC games can have some affect on the pyche of the young. However I do believe that the public should not use the media , TV, movies, music, and video games as the sole scape goat (not to say that pdub is doing this) for violence in todays society. Rather its a combination of an excess of violent media combined with a lack of positive older influences and role models. Family and friends can be very positive influences. These are often forgotten when a tragedy occurs. The news media itself only gains higher ratings when it continuously casts blame on rock groups then on to games, then movies etc. Some groups even accuse Harry Potter of influencing young children to want to be like a witch/wizard.
I think its all with our time. Did this type of critizism occur over our parents playing Cowboys and Indians, or fake WW2 wargames. If Harry Potter can be so thrashed by some media groups I say lets get rid of Cinderella, Tinkerbelle, and the Easter Bunny as well.
I think it all depends on the individual child. Everyone is different and everyone will be influenced differently.
Sorry just had to clarify that point, but let it not detract: good stuff and MOST interesting as a server admin.
Thank you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roobubba
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Group 4: Players who have either been in or are currently in the military.
This was a fun group that I organized at a LAN party on campus just for fun. And there are a lot of these types of people in my college so I made use of them. Army, Marines, National Guard and an Airforce guys and one girl ( and a police officer too) who happen to like PC games as well, what a combo.
... squads ... ...leapfrog...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>MUST see a demo of this.</b></span>
Except when it crashes. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I can't get it working - try to open a .dem file, it complains about being unable to copy "demo-file", and then goes down in flames with an access violation.
Not that this is the place for Geekplay tech support, but having heard so much about how awesome this thing it, I'm a little let down. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Upload the demos ASAP <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you are a skeptic and dont belive the information in my study by all means don't. That is your affair. I put this information up because I thought it would be interesting. I fully agree that the demos would have been great. As of right now I cant even play NS, or DOD, or anything Sierra-Half Life realted. Its probably do to some custom skins I have or people mesing with files over the college network. Ill just have to reinstall everything when I return this weekend. Hopefully Ill be back up playing by Monday.
My Deepest Apologies to everyone for not being able to post the demos and Thank you all for the positivie feedback.
-Cpl.Davis
Excellent work. I myself am taking a course in sociological method at college, but only
because I have to <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (politics major)
Could you possibly host the actual study somewhere? I'm interested in the details and don't mind sociologic babble.
would you mind uploading the ten pages, or give a link. I atleast would read them.
I actually put it in here before I showed it to anyone at school <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I really like how you handeled it and the results are cool.
I know you say the .dems are busted, but if you could post them up to let some of use get a crack at them (some one might figgure out a way of fixing them).
cant wait to see the full version
US Army is quite good though. Rambo in that game and you're dead. Ghost Recon was pretty good as well, but still not good enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not surprised about your CS experience. That game simply does not model reality well enough to get the full benefit of "military tactics".
Probably the most "realistic" game I've played to date has been Operation Flashpoint. I'd highly recommend that to anyone above any of the "clancy" games like Ghost Recon any day.
About the NS study: seems interesting and the result is what I would have expected for the most part. Hopefully with the new Comm interface it will be easier for the average Commander to take full advantage of forming mini-teams to accomplish various tasks.
(maybe not because of the contreversy it would cause, you never know)