I think if you could manage to get 1 or 2 bomber lerks over the marines say by blinking a fade in first then, (remmber its a 13v13) blink the rest of the team as cara fades ontop (not infront or behind but ontop so as to split all fire arcs) and swipe like hell, as the marines have been camping res they will NOT have upgrades. Due to WOLs etc this can be executed 2 or free times before the HAs even get to a hive (remember the aliens have all but 2 rts on the map). It should seriously wound the first time round taking at least 4 HAs from 10 fade melee swipe, the gren spam will not have time to save them. tbh on a lot of public servewrs I could see this killing the HAs but then again you dont see many people with lvl 0 hmgs killing cara umbra fades on public servers.
umbra.... carapice... all sound like good ideas till you realise they have 5 Grenade launchers...
fades took at least 2 grenade hits when trying to get to the HAs, and when they closed... one ha dropped a clip of 4 grenades in the middle of them and took cover... it was sad really.
i am not complaining at all, i just wondered if anyone else expirienced this...
Just to add (or reiterate, if I missed it above) to all that has been typeded: if you can get 8 aliens to move in a pack and hit 8 marines, HA and welders or not... and they all acid rocketed a single slow moving HA marine... how could he not die? Did the comm. have a medpack IV drip dangling from their base to the marine? Geesh.
If you didnt have 8 Fades hammering one marine, I would be suprised. About as suprised as I would be to see 8 marines moving together. That's Good Stuff™, that teamwork. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
They aren't stopable. Most people don't know, but Grenades also clear out Webbing. So lots of Nade spam kills the whole webbing effect. Hitting there base is worthless, any good comm will already have the Protolab recycled (still allows you to build HA and JP (its a bug), so you can't take that out. By the time you take out the comm chair, there is another up complete with IP and Armory. You can't kill them because they weld, they spam, and the comm spams health on them. No ammount of Fade/Skulk/Lerk will take down 8 HAs working correctly. You could put 15 alien players, ALL working as a team, against 8 HAs that know how to play worth a damn, and the HA will just never go down.
As for "stopping the rush before it happens", well, if the server is 10v10, marines only need about 3-4 res towers to tech up HA/HMG/GL/Welder rush with at least lvl2 upgrades very quickly due to the resource inbalance.
The quick answer is, there isn't one, they CAN'T be taken down.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Feb 25 2003, 09:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Feb 25 2003, 09:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Easy. A decent Lerk umbra melee range drop, with melee Fades piling in.
The HA's die. Miserably. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Haha...not quite friend. If the comm is a good heal spammer, every tiny notch of damage you deal will be healed instantly, all the while the HA tear you apart...Umbra or not. I've had a group try this once...simple lerk/fade melee rush, we rounded the corner, the lerk umbraed, and of the 7 of us that went in, 4 died before we even REACHED the marines, the others were torn apart seconds after landing their first strikes. Here is a quarter, buy a clue.
<!--QuoteBegin--Trevelyan_006+Feb 25 2003, 02:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan_006 @ Feb 25 2003, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> umbra.... carapice... all sound like good ideas till you realise they have 5 Grenade launchers...
fades took at least 2 grenade hits when trying to get to the HAs, and when they closed... one ha dropped a clip of 4 grenades in the middle of them and took cover... it was sad really.
i am not complaining at all, i just wondered if anyone else expirienced this... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> try it yourself, oh wait sorry you havent oh well bye
First of all, don't let them get that many resources.
Second of all, they can come back.
I played about a 12 on 12 game, where we somehow came up with enough resources to get about 6 GLs and 4 HMGs and heavy armor for all. Our base had been relocated to one of their hives, so they only had two. We had even sent out an attack party of 8 to one of their hives. One thing that really helped the aliens was to cut off more marines from sending reinforcements to the attack. This was done with only one fade at each exit to their base. The marines kept spamming tons of greandes at the fades, but the fades just kept spamming back acid rockets, keeping the HMGs away. This gave the aliens enough time to kill the attackers and get ready for a sudden rush of mostly skulks, a couple fades, and some lerks. There was no way the marines could stop them, even with HMGs.
So I guess the main trick is to get on the offensive, and don't let any more reinforcements come out, and then rush with as many aliens as you can. See if that helps.
I hate to say it, but there isn't much more you can do. It sounds like you played your cards right, but as many of us know, if you give the marines too long, they will own you. The reason aliens win most of the pub games is that marine players are rarely patient enough to slowly and safely tech up to the point where they can unleash the fury of the gods. Cause let me tell ya, when a chain of welder wield HA/HMGs go on a rampage, ain't nothin gonna stop them. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why do res towers produce more resources with larger teams? as marines do better with more people even with the same res income, whereas aliens have to share res so the gorges get res slower, increasing the resource production with more players just helps marines far more than aliens..
Marines shouldn't get any more res for mroe players, aliens should have a slight increase with players to balance the sharing effect and let them get res towers up.
A wall of heavies is unstoppable. Just like a wall of onos. GL has one major downside...... its expensive, like onos. If you get a wall of GLs headed for you, just do whatever you'd do when 4 onos run down the hall.
I kinda have to agree with the rest here, gg aliens, better luck next round. But..being a pretty fluent commander I gotta point out one error...sorry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Protolab recycled (still allows you to build HA and JP (its a bug), [QUOTE]
Incorrect, yes you can still click, and yes the suit will still show up, but you need a prototype lab to drop it. Its like a turret factory with range, you need to drop the suit within the protolab's range.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Haha...not quite friend. If the comm is a good heal spammer, every tiny notch of damage you deal will be healed instantly, all the while the HA tear you apart...Umbra or not. I've had a group try this once...simple lerk/fade melee rush, we rounded the corner, the lerk umbraed, and of the 7 of us that went in, 4 died before we even REACHED the marines, the others were torn apart seconds after landing their first strikes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This....
A) Shouldn't be done down a big. fat. corridor.
B) You lost 4 Fades out of 6 (assuming 1 Lerk) before you reached the HA? Then (And I swore I'd never say this..) but your Fades/Lerks sucked. Badly. You either picked an awful location to try & jump them, or your Lerk didn't drop the Umbra well (there should be 1 at the Fades 'round-the-corner' point, and one ON the marines. As in, at their feet.
C) I can't use quarters, I live in the UK.
Yeah, you'll probably lose the Fades in the process too, but them's the breaks I'm afraid. They should have had at most 1, maybe 2 of the HA left standing. And they'd both be Skulk fodder without welding each other.
A gorg direct-webbing them should make it hella easy for the team to take them out <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
B) You lost 4 Fades out of 6 (assuming 1 Lerk) before you reached the HA? Then (And I swore I'd never say this..) but your Fades/Lerks sucked. Badly. You either picked an awful location to try & jump them, or your Lerk didn't drop the Umbra well (there should be 1 at the Fades 'round-the-corner' point, and one ON the marines. As in, at their feet.
C) I can't use quarters, I live in the UK.
Yeah, you'll probably lose the Fades in the process too, but them's the breaks I'm afraid. They should have had at most 1, maybe 2 of the HA left standing. And they'd both be Skulk fodder without welding each other. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A: It wasn't, the actual location (if you know your maps and location names. ns_ecplise, West Core Access outside of Computer Core, no long hallways in that area, in fact, its a fairly small area.
B: Considdering with their MT, they started firing just before we turned the corner, yes. He umbraded just fine, its just the fire of about 5-6 HMG umbra or not is a LOT of bullets.
<!--QuoteBegin--[watch.me.die]+Feb 26 2003, 05:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([watch.me.die] @ Feb 26 2003, 05:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A gorg direct-webbing them should make it hella easy for the team to take them out <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=24681' target='_blank'>Read this</a>, directly webbing marines does nothing.
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Feb 24 2003, 11:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Feb 24 2003, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Prevent them from getting that many HAs. This is the most commonly asked RTS question relating to balance. For example:
"How do you counter 100 of the uber-kill-everything-unit?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. It's like saying:
"How do you stop 6 onoses in your base when you've lost every resource node and have only your home base with minimal upgrades and only LMGs"
The long answer: You're screwed. 5 grenade launcher is A LOT. I drop maybe 1 or 2 in game, 3 or 4 in the final push. (BTW grenade launchers go down pretty easily to skulks and can end up blowing themselves up). But the combination you listed IS a game ender because it's the top tech that the marines can possible have. Unless you counter with your own top tech you're not SUPPOSED to have much of a chance, except the little suggestions people gave you in this thread, which will mostly fail. The short answer: <b>F4</b>
dont let 'rines get the frickin res for that ****.
oh and i love circle straffing the armoury. only takes one rush and its down, and thats the armoury + upgrade the 'rines have to buy again. Best thing to attack in a base imo.
<!--QuoteBegin--0range+Feb 24 2003, 10:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (0range @ Feb 24 2003, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you have every res yet they still managed to save for all that then your alien team sucked and took to long to finish the job. You deserve to lose <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A lot of people are quick to use the "if ____ and _____ then you suck and deserve to loose" quote. NS is a complex game and just because the aliens controled more res. doesn't mean the marine were pushovers, If the marines were saving res. (no health spamming, no MT or PG, only a few upgrades, etc.) putting up some base defenses and then rushing a hive its not as easy as it sounds to just kill them.
plain and simple. if you got really good **** marines. and i mean good. real good shooters, good teamplay, etc....they will win 99% of the time. there are so many strats to win as marines. problem is, NOBODY LISTENS OR FOLLOWS ORDERS. if everyone plays as a team, you will win. plain and simple.
Comments
fades took at least 2 grenade hits when trying to get to the HAs, and when they closed... one ha dropped a clip of 4 grenades in the middle of them and took cover... it was sad really.
i am not complaining at all, i just wondered if anyone else expirienced this...
If you didnt have 8 Fades hammering one marine, I would be suprised. About as suprised as I would be to see 8 marines moving together. That's Good Stuff™, that teamwork. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
S
As for "stopping the rush before it happens", well, if the server is 10v10, marines only need about 3-4 res towers to tech up HA/HMG/GL/Welder rush with at least lvl2 upgrades very quickly due to the resource inbalance.
The quick answer is, there isn't one, they CAN'T be taken down.
The HA's die. Miserably. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha...not quite friend. If the comm is a good heal spammer, every tiny notch of damage you deal will be healed instantly, all the while the HA tear you apart...Umbra or not. I've had a group try this once...simple lerk/fade melee rush, we rounded the corner, the lerk umbraed, and of the 7 of us that went in, 4 died before we even REACHED the marines, the others were torn apart seconds after landing their first strikes. Here is a quarter, buy a clue.
fades took at least 2 grenade hits when trying to get to the HAs, and when they closed... one ha dropped a clip of 4 grenades in the middle of them and took cover... it was sad really.
i am not complaining at all, i just wondered if anyone else expirienced this... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
try it yourself, oh wait sorry you havent oh well bye
Second of all, they can come back.
I played about a 12 on 12 game, where we somehow came up with enough resources to get about 6 GLs and 4 HMGs and heavy armor for all. Our base had been relocated to one of their hives, so they only had two. We had even sent out an attack party of 8 to one of their hives. One thing that really helped the aliens was to cut off more marines from sending reinforcements to the attack. This was done with only one fade at each exit to their base. The marines kept spamming tons of greandes at the fades, but the fades just kept spamming back acid rockets, keeping the HMGs away. This gave the aliens enough time to kill the attackers and get ready for a sudden rush of mostly skulks, a couple fades, and some lerks. There was no way the marines could stop them, even with HMGs.
So I guess the main trick is to get on the offensive, and don't let any more reinforcements come out, and then rush with as many aliens as you can. See if that helps.
Prosp
Marines shouldn't get any more res for mroe players, aliens should have a slight increase with players to balance the sharing effect and let them get res towers up.
Protolab recycled (still allows you to build HA and JP (its a bug), [QUOTE]
Incorrect, yes you can still click, and yes the suit will still show up, but you need a prototype lab to drop it. Its like a turret factory with range, you need to drop the suit within the protolab's range.
Rest has been said so I wont bother restating it.
This....
A) Shouldn't be done down a big. fat. corridor.
B) You lost 4 Fades out of 6 (assuming 1 Lerk) before you reached the HA? Then (And I swore I'd never say this..) but your Fades/Lerks sucked. Badly. You either picked an awful location to try & jump them, or your Lerk didn't drop the Umbra well (there should be 1 at the Fades 'round-the-corner' point, and one ON the marines. As in, at their feet.
C) I can't use quarters, I live in the UK.
Yeah, you'll probably lose the Fades in the process too, but them's the breaks I'm afraid. They should have had at most 1, maybe 2 of the HA left standing. And they'd both be Skulk fodder without welding each other.
A) Shouldn't be done down a big. fat. corridor.
B) You lost 4 Fades out of 6 (assuming 1 Lerk) before you reached the HA? Then (And I swore I'd never say this..) but your Fades/Lerks sucked. Badly. You either picked an awful location to try & jump them, or your Lerk didn't drop the Umbra well (there should be 1 at the Fades 'round-the-corner' point, and one ON the marines. As in, at their feet.
C) I can't use quarters, I live in the UK.
Yeah, you'll probably lose the Fades in the process too, but them's the breaks I'm afraid. They should have had at most 1, maybe 2 of the HA left standing. And they'd both be Skulk fodder without welding each other. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A: It wasn't, the actual location (if you know your maps and location names. ns_ecplise, West Core Access outside of Computer Core, no long hallways in that area, in fact, its a fairly small area.
B: Considdering with their MT, they started firing just before we turned the corner, yes. He umbraded just fine, its just the fire of about 5-6 HMG umbra or not is a LOT of bullets.
C: K...take a pound, lol.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=24681' target='_blank'>Read this</a>, directly webbing marines does nothing.
This is the most commonly asked RTS question relating to balance. For example:
"How do you counter 100 of the uber-kill-everything-unit?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. It's like saying:
"How do you stop 6 onoses in your base when you've lost every resource node and have only your home base with minimal upgrades and only LMGs"
The long answer: You're screwed. 5 grenade launcher is A LOT. I drop maybe 1 or 2 in game, 3 or 4 in the final push. (BTW grenade launchers go down pretty easily to skulks and can end up blowing themselves up). But the combination you listed IS a game ender because it's the top tech that the marines can possible have. Unless you counter with your own top tech you're not SUPPOSED to have much of a chance, except the little suggestions people gave you in this thread, which will mostly fail.
The short answer: <b>F4</b>
dont let 'rines get the frickin res for that ****.
oh and i love circle straffing the armoury. only takes one rush and its down, and thats the armoury + upgrade the 'rines have to buy again. Best thing to attack in a base imo.
A lot of people are quick to use the "if ____ and _____ then you suck and deserve to loose" quote. NS is a complex game and just because the aliens controled more res. doesn't mean the marine were pushovers, If the marines were saving res. (no health spamming, no MT or PG, only a few upgrades, etc.) putting up some base defenses and then rushing a hive its not as easy as it sounds to just kill them.