Oh Please, Do Not Rush In Big Games!

killswitch · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">unless you've got 5 minutes to kill.</div> I play on a 26 player server usually, and it never fails: Half the team runs around aimlessly, the other half trys for the base and the marines, expecting it, waste them all getting a jump start on the first claimed hive while the aliens wait forever to respawn. I see 4 skulk deaths for ever marine death in the rush.
A FAR better tactic is to wait for them to move to a hive, THEN attack their base. Or at least hang around at a hive.

The respawn time isn't increased for a larger game is it? Maybe it should be...

EDIT: Dagnabbit: a more pronounced search lead to a post on rushing. But this post is more specifically about the large games, and on respawn time.

sekdar · February 2003

rushing only works if the marines have their heads stuck up their butts.

play on a different server i guess.

Amorphous · February 2003

Killswitch, first it depends on the map, and the player skills.

An even team with even skills, the aliens will get killed pretty much every time in a big game.( <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> **dead**)

Better aliens or more aliens normally results in this:
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> (Even kill/death)

Bad marines or marines who cant work together at all:
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> **skulks destroy the marines**

It all depends on variables and luck. plus it can put the marines in alot.

killswitch · February 2003

I guess one of the big problems with the big games is getting EVERYONE to rush. Usually only half march out.
In smaller games (say 7 or 6 skulks), they can coordinate easier and attack together. They automatically have a higher percentage advantage as there's one guy sitting in the chair.

Canadianmonk3y · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Feb 20 2003, 10:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I guess one of the big problems with the big games is getting EVERYONE to rush. Usually only half march out.
In smaller games (say 7 or 6 skulks), they can coordinate easier and attack together. They automatically have a higher percentage advantage as there's one guy sitting in the chair.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not quite. It is a fact, well proven that unupgraded skulks are free kills for marines if they try to rush.

taboofires · February 2003

Of course, this isn't to say that it isn't worth while to send at least one skulk to its death. Now you know what the marines are up to. Empty base = relocation, and you might not have found that out by just sitting there. Parasites are nice too.

Trevelyan_006 · February 2003

ever try this strat... in big games... 2 go gorge... one gorge rushes with skulks and builds WOL and DCs to wall off marines... cause the marines sit in their base defending against rush... once they finally push out... "oh ****..." i have done this, it totally owns if your team is DEAD set on rushing in big games...

SoulSkorpion · February 2003

Rushing is an exercise in stupidity in ANY sized game (except for very specific circumstances). It's usually stupidity on the part of the Kharaa: you're trying to attack them when they know you're coming and have installed themselves in the best covering spots. You'll be cut down without accomplishing anything. What's worse, with your whole skulk force out of commission there's nobody patroling for rambos or relocation, and nothing to stop the commander from moving out as soon as the last skulk hits the floor. If a rush succeeds, it's stupidity on the part of the marines because they are quite easy to halt. It's also a very lame way to win (as in ANY real time strategy game).

The only only only time it's a valid tactic is when the gorge says so, to use as a delaying tactic. And that's only when the gorge really really REALLY knows what he's doing and is absolutely confident that he can hold the fort without the skulks. And that's not often.

Aminal · February 2003

playing kharaa on 26 player servers is dumb in itself.

marines have such an absurd resource and respawn advantage that they'd _have_to be so lame they died by the rush in order not to win on a 26 player server.

In any case, the rush is not designed to win the game, but to hinder expansion by the marines. The more resources they are wasting on spawning and on re-building lost buildings the better, meanwhile the skulk is free, expendable and deadly.

Paladyne-TPF · February 2003

You must understand the purpose of an early skulk rush before you form an opinion. The goal is not so much to kill the other team or to destroy buildings (although those are entirely preferable if the marines aren't that hot and you <i>can</i> do those things), it's to delay the marine expansion. If you can force the marines to decide between expanding and losing their base, or defending it and not expanding, then your rush is successful. It's buying your gorge the time he needs to set up, which is really the <b>main</b> purpose of the early skulk rush; buy your gorge time.

I've yet to see a marine team that can both effectively expand <i>and</i> hold off a full-team skulk rush without significant loss of players and damage to structures. Unchecked, this damage will add up to destroyed structures, thus costing the marines both time and resources. The best teams can afford to send out scouts, but nothing more. A decent skulk team will keep these scouts busy as well so they don't cause too much trouble. Furthermore, by kamikaze rushing you're dying a lot; this is good, as it accelerates the gorge's resource accumulation. Dying as a skulk not only costs you nothing, it actually <i>helps</i> your team! If nothing else, you're forcing them to expend ammo and possibly health, thus forcing them to spend resource points on ammo packs or an armory.

In comparison, ninja skulks lurking outside the door (the other major tactic) is surprisingly ineffective if the marines are professional enough to overcome whatever paranoia and insecurity you're instilling in them. You're allowing them to do whatever they wish as long as they don't leave the base; this means they can build quickly with a minimum of guards, fill up on ammo freely, and not worry about medkits or repairs because you're not causing damage. You're not dying, but neither are they; this works <i>for</i> them and <i>against</i> you since you are neither costing them resources nor dying and temporarily "donating" your resource collection to the gorge. Once they <i>do</i> decide to expand, it'll be as a fully coordinated team actively looking for your ambush, one that will be extremely difficult to deflect. Thus their expansion will likely be successful, and much earlier than if they had to put up with constant waves of attacking aliens in between and during builds.

Rushing really ends up being no different on large or small servers. In both cases, the marines must dedicate several players towards stopping the incoming skulks before they can do damage. This costs them ammo, among other things. More marine guards means more people attacking you every time you run in, but that's just fine; it also means more people yelling for ammo and more resources funneling to your gorge.

The comment about rushing being lame is very telling. In RTS games, you have a very limited number of effective strategies. Saying one is lame is somewhat pointless, as that limits you to one or possibly two strategies in total, as well as being completely unfounded. In a game in which there are only two basic strategies, it seems fairly obvious that neither are "lame" in the sense that they're "unfair" or exploitative. All you're doing is stating a preference and trying to disguise it as more strategically sound with nothing to back up that claim.

rebo · February 2003

rushing is worthless until you have level 3 cara, when you do its a game winner.

XorSloop · February 2003

There is cordinated rushing and there is dumb rushing. Dumb rushing would be to rush straight in from one entrance straight into the bullets. Cordinated and preplanned rushing would be i.e. to send one skulk into death while the others wait for him to die and then rush in a sec later. Most marines would probably be reloading at that time. Another preplanned rush is to send 2 skulks ahead of the group to attack the enemy resource point and ignore the marines. The marines will be shooting like crazy at the skulks but could take a few seconds to take them out if they manage to cover behind the resource. Skilled marines would move close to the resource to get a better angle for the shot. When the rest of the skulks rush in there will be pure chaos in the favor of the skulks.

[XOR]Sloop

Sifo25 · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XorSloop @ Feb 24 2003, 10:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Another preplanned rush is to send 2 skulks ahead of the group to attack the enemy resource point and ignore the marines. The marines will be shooting like crazy at the skulks but could take a few seconds to take them out if they manage to cover behind the resource. Skilled marines would move close to the resource to get a better angle for the shot. When the rest of the skulks rush in there will be pure chaos in the favor of the skulks.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
That's one of my favorites. On ns_nothing, the other night, a skulk and I both rushed in and started hammering their res. tower. The three or four marines milling around let us chew for a good 10 seconds before they came at us (I can only imagine what their commander was relaying, it seemed like a looooooong delay) and right when they did, four other skulks flew at them. End result:

5 skulks dead, the guy I was with running out of their base barely alive, the four marines dead, one turret factory chewed up pretty good, and one spawned marine finishing off the wounded skulks (like three of them and me).

But we got their res. tower. *chuckle*

S

Oh Please, Do Not Rush In Big Games!

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