Concept: A Teamplayer Rating System?
Fantasmo
Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
<div class="IPBDescription">To replace Kills/Deaths completely...</div> I was wondering if there had been any thought to creating some kind of '<b>Teamplayer Rating System</b>' to completely replace Kills/Deaths?
Instead of exclusively using Kills/Deaths the 'Teamplayer Rating System' should utilize other, more teamplay- orientated tasks to determine the rating of a player.
Some examples of '<i>more teamplay-oriented tasks</i>' could be;
Friendly Structures Built
Friendly Units/Structures Welded
Capturing/Holding/Defending Waypoints
Enemy Structures Destroyed
Another factor for the 'Teamplayer Rating System' could be your proximity to teammates. Any task completed within a certain proximity of your teammates will increase your rating more then just building/killing something by yourself. The more marines in your area the greater of an impact to your rating.
Your rating is carried over from round to round and if possible from server to server.
A '<b>Team Rating</b>' could be produced at the end of the match that doesn't impact your inidividual rating. The 'Team Rating' could be based on the level of teamwork that was demonstrated by the whole team. Perhaps a way to calculate that would be to take the total amount of ratings increased/decreased earned by each individual player on the team and add them together.
If a team is working very well together their team rating will be very high because each member of the team earned a higher rating during the match.
ie. (TPR = Teamplayer Rating)
<u>Beginning of Match</u>
Fantasmo [TPR: 1000]
Flayra [TPR: 1000]
Comprox [TPR: 1000]
Coil [TPR: 1000]
Fam [TPR: 1000]
<u>End of Match</u>
Fantasmo [TPR: 845] -155
Flayra [TPR: 1460] +460
Comprox [TPR: 1430] +430
Coil [TPR: 1500] +500
Fam [TPR: 1354] +354
<b>Team Rating: 1589</b>
I guess it's pretty obvious why I think this would be beneficial for NS. I think a system like this is more representative of the importance of Teamplay in NS. FPSers seem to get real obsessed, almost fanatical about their score/kills/ratings, I figured with a rating system based primarily on teamwork it willl inspire people to work together as a team, if not <i>for</i> the team then at least to get a better rating.
Not only that, I would <b><i>love</b></i> a brag thread called, <b>Our l33t Team Rating: Can you beat our teamwork?</b>.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
These are just ideas to promote the importance of teamwork... you got any?
Instead of exclusively using Kills/Deaths the 'Teamplayer Rating System' should utilize other, more teamplay- orientated tasks to determine the rating of a player.
Some examples of '<i>more teamplay-oriented tasks</i>' could be;
Friendly Structures Built
Friendly Units/Structures Welded
Capturing/Holding/Defending Waypoints
Enemy Structures Destroyed
Another factor for the 'Teamplayer Rating System' could be your proximity to teammates. Any task completed within a certain proximity of your teammates will increase your rating more then just building/killing something by yourself. The more marines in your area the greater of an impact to your rating.
Your rating is carried over from round to round and if possible from server to server.
A '<b>Team Rating</b>' could be produced at the end of the match that doesn't impact your inidividual rating. The 'Team Rating' could be based on the level of teamwork that was demonstrated by the whole team. Perhaps a way to calculate that would be to take the total amount of ratings increased/decreased earned by each individual player on the team and add them together.
If a team is working very well together their team rating will be very high because each member of the team earned a higher rating during the match.
ie. (TPR = Teamplayer Rating)
<u>Beginning of Match</u>
Fantasmo [TPR: 1000]
Flayra [TPR: 1000]
Comprox [TPR: 1000]
Coil [TPR: 1000]
Fam [TPR: 1000]
<u>End of Match</u>
Fantasmo [TPR: 845] -155
Flayra [TPR: 1460] +460
Comprox [TPR: 1430] +430
Coil [TPR: 1500] +500
Fam [TPR: 1354] +354
<b>Team Rating: 1589</b>
I guess it's pretty obvious why I think this would be beneficial for NS. I think a system like this is more representative of the importance of Teamplay in NS. FPSers seem to get real obsessed, almost fanatical about their score/kills/ratings, I figured with a rating system based primarily on teamwork it willl inspire people to work together as a team, if not <i>for</i> the team then at least to get a better rating.
Not only that, I would <b><i>love</b></i> a brag thread called, <b>Our l33t Team Rating: Can you beat our teamwork?</b>.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
These are just ideas to promote the importance of teamwork... you got any?
Comments
I'm pretty sure he didn't like the idea, but for the life of me I cant remember why.
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How do you reward the guy who stays at spawn for the first 15 minutes on comms orders to hold of skulks? He never went to a waypoint and he may only kill 4-5 skulks. However, he's willing to have a lesser role on comms orders so that the rest of the team doesn't have to worry about spawn.
I'm pretty sure he didn't like the idea, but for the life of me I cant remember why.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I believe the developers of FLF wanted to increase teamplay that way but from what I remembered it really didn't inspire people to stick together or really help much.
I think the idea is interesting.
DOES a Teamplay FPS need to go as far as giving physical bonuses for sticking together?... I don't know. I kind of hope not because it may negatively affect Clanplay where everyone is pretty talented already.
I think if it affected your rating like I suggested, not something physical like your accuracy or health, it wouldn't be a bad thing... I don't think anyways.
Woo! But if EVERYONE stayed in spawn, they'd all get points from being near teammates, AND being near the Comm.
Seriously, at most I'd just allow the Comm to give medals/rankings. Sergeant (in charge of a couple other Marines), Veteran (just a good player), and Llama (Rambo, someone who sits and whines for a Veteran medal, griefer). Take the points out of it. Take out how many times you shoot X, how long you hold down +use at building Y, and how many times you chase down the blinky circle.
At that point, the Comm can recognize good players. It's a lot more effective than relying on an algorithm to do it, as once the algo is known.. people will just **** it one way or another so they can see themselves as 'uB4r 1337 N5 d00Dz'.. without doing JACK, really.
I think you misunderstand my direction. The rating system <b>isn't</b> for those who teamplay already, teamplayers don't care about scores or ratings (At least most I know don't), it is for those who don't. The strategy is to find a way to inspire those who like things like ratings and scores (A more DM minded fellow) to adhere to more of a teamplay atmosphere. This is my strategy:
Good Player = High Rating
High Rating = Earning Points
Earning Points = Utilizing Teamwork
See how it works?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How do you reward the guy who stays at spawn for the first 15 minutes on comms orders to hold of skulks? He never went to a waypoint and he may only kill 4-5 skulks. However, he's willing to have a lesser role on comms orders so that the rest of the team doesn't have to worry about spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a very good question.
I made this post to get ideas and to further refine the Teamplay Rating System if it proves to be a decent idea. I don't have an answer for you, do you think you, or anyone, could come up with a solution to this problem under the 'Teamplay Rating System' idea.
This is group think guys, I'm not here to defend or promote my ideas... just to come up with them in hoipes of finding ways to improve teamwork on pub servers.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
MARINES
The more cooperative group would get benefits for fighting and working together and improving the position of the team.
Things that would increase your score:
Do damage to an alien or alien structure.
Do damage to an alien or alien structure that recently damage a teammate (more points!).
Spend time building a structure.
Spend time in sight of friendly structures.
Spend time repairing a friendly structure.
Arrive at a waypoint or complete an order (or be in sight of a structure you should be defending)
Things that would decrease your score:
Take ammo. Depending on damage capacity of the ammo taken.
Get equipped. Depending on the cost of the weapon taken.
Die not in sight of an allied structure or unit.
I like the idea that a bonus should be added if activities are done in range of a teammate.
ALIENS
The more independent group would get bonuses for individual feats of heroism or well timed coordination.
Things that would increase your score:
Do damage to an enemy unit or structure.
Damage a unit or enemy structure that your teammate recently damaged (more points!)
Build a structure.
Build a Hive (more points!)
Spend time within sight of a built Hive.
Spend time within sight of a gorge.
Parasite an enemy.
Spend time building a structure.
Bonuses would be given out for massive feats of destruction such as destroying several buildings without dying or killing several marines in a short period of time.
Things that would decrease your score:
Spend resources (unless you're a gorge).
Have one of your built structures die.
Be a gorge when 25% of your team are gorges (and there is another gorge)
Earn resources (unless you're a gorge).
All of these rating suggestions are open to debate, but I think the team could easily iron out a list of factors that make you a good teammate and come up with rewards for them. I think this would do a lot to not only inspire players to play, but reduce the occurrence of people who play for themselves because they don't realize that they should be part of a team.
--Frahg
Seriously, at most I'd just allow the Comm to give medals/rankings. Sergeant (in charge of a couple other Marines), Veteran (just a good player), and Llama (Rambo, someone who sits and whines for a Veteran medal, griefer). Take the points out of it. Take out how many times you shoot X, how long you hold down +use at building Y, and how many times you chase down the blinky circle.
At that point, the Comm can recognize good players. It's a lot more effective than relying on an algorithm to do it, as once the algo is known.. people will just **** it one way or another so they can see themselves as 'uB4r 1337 N5 d00Dz'.. without doing JACK, really. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I had an idea about medals or battlefield promotions too Talesin. It's buried in these forums somewhere, it pretty much went unnoticed and unreplied to so I thought no one was interested.
I agree that an algo can be exploited, that is the inherent danger of a rating system of this kind. I wonder if it can be worked out though, I mean what you have to do to earn a better rating are team activities... not something you can go off to do all by yourself and do one thing which risks people doing it over and over to earn higher points. The system should be designed and tweaked so you should have to be an active member of the team contributing teamwork to earn a higher rating.
I'm not sure what you meant by,
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Take the points out of it. Take out how many times you shoot X, how long you hold down +use at building Y, and how many times you chase down the blinky circle.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, I maintain that there needs to be a rating system that helps the commander know his teammates and that commander controlled promotions would not be a viable system.
In my opinion I don't think your rating should be affected at all. No increase or decrease.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...allow the Comm to give medals/rankings.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was just thinking it would be really interesting to combine the Teamplayer Rating System with the Medals/Rankings Ability.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How do you reward the guy who stays at spawn for the first 15 minutes on comms orders to hold of skulks? He never went to a waypoint and he may only kill 4-5 skulks. However, he's willing to have a lesser role on comms orders so that the rest of the team doesn't have to worry about spawn. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps if the Comm gave the base guard a ranking of '<b>Security</b>' his rating is affected in a different way. A way in which rewards the tasks that a particular rank is responsible for.
So, I maintain that there needs to be a rating system that helps the commander know his teammates and that commander controlled promotions would not be a viable system. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point about the promotion system Fragq.
I like the '<b>Rank</b>' ability more then the battlefield promotions idea. Rank could also be though of as Position in this case. The rank of '<b>Security</b>' could be base guard or <b>Tech</b> could be builder/welder.
Getting Weapons and Spending Res.
If you're an alien and you spend resources you're affecting the income of every other player in the game. If you do it infrequently (say you become a Fade and you stay a fade until the end of the game) you've only taken a hit once and you'll definately recover it. However, if you think you're rambo and you go fade and continually get killed your wasting of resources will eventually take its toll on your score. This is to dissuade people who don't understand that they're spending the teams money. Team players spend money wisely. If you spend money wisely you'll take less of a hit in your score.
If you're a marine and you take the grenade launcher and rambo into the alien's base and drop it when 7 skulks swarm and devour you, you cost the team 33 resources! You deserve to be penalized. Thus, people will think twice about taking that hmg out, unless they think they can make it worth their while.
Basically, I put everything into categories of potential gains. You take hits to your score if you think it will pay off in the long run. Thus you don't just waste the teams resources willy-nilly, you consider your purchases and you make the one that is right for you (otherwise your score will go to pot).
--Frahg
You never see scores upwards of 50+ on kills alone, doing objectives for the team is when you see 500+ scores.
I like the idea, personally. Though I never check my score in T2 until the very end of the match, when that's all you can look at until hitting the "Continue" button <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, if the comm could somehow see a general statistics of his soldiers, such as:
General Accuracy
How many times a soldier has gone to a way point
How long +use key has been building stuff
The average proximity a player has been near his teammates
Kills per player
How much ammo a player has collected with in the first 1:00 of spawning in
Other stuff
With this sort of stats avalible to the commander, he then can decide who deserves the most recognition for the team, and this will work simply because you cannot exploit a real human being. The human will know who is doing the most for the team, and even if the stats are misleading, the human will still realize that whereas an algorthim will not.
You might say that some llama commander comes along and screws everyone over, giving the awards to the dumbest people on the team; but hey, that is what the eject command is for, and not to mention, the awards will be purely for show, with the hope they might encourage teamwork.
But for NS, I dont know how well it would work out. Might be better to just do away with individual scores. If theres no personal score to worry about, everyone focuses on the team score. The one that should matter.