I Just Realized It!

emc256 · February 2003

I have been playing since October 31st, release, and now I have been enlightened and will proceed to NS nirvana.

It hit me one day:

THE GAME IS BALANCED!!!

*scattered applause*

After browsing through countless unbalanced threads, I HAVE THE TRUTH!!!

I will give reasons why NS is balanced, and that any changes made to it will be minor shifts - not enough to unbalance it.

- Marines MUST grab 2 hives to win, aliens can do well when they secure only a 2nd hive. (Fades kick butt no
matter how much you raise the res cost)

- A good skulk can take on many marines - try it! BTW, leap in the hands of a skilled player is incredible...
But there are many decent marines - seasoned FPS players used to the point and shoot style of Marines

- Marines get motion tracking - wall hack - but skulks get parasite from the beginning

- Got a crappy comm? Vote him out. Aliens can have n00bs who go gorge - 4 gorges - but they tend to get
killed quick being n00bs.

There are too many reasons to list! My brain is about to explode from the shining truth! AHHHHH!!!

Angelus · February 2003

HOORAY!!!! someone has found the truth (or maybe realised all this unbalanced gameplay stuff is a heap of ****)

Heres a hint.... never pay attention to it.. i never have...

Supernorn · February 2003

wow..finally...<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
some people never go on to realise this fact...*claps*

Mr_Grim · February 2003

This must be the best post ever, i thought i was alone when i thought it is balanced but hey, there are more people who actually make sense. HOORAY !!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

SoBe_Dragon · February 2003

E=MC i have been trying to say that since 1.03. Its good to know that another child has seen the light...i dont look foward to any more "balance changes" that might be implemented =)

Hozart1 · February 2003

Hmmm...I still find jp/hmg rushes very very powerful, and organized marines are uber.

MMZ_Torak · February 2003

Most peoples opinion of balance is messed up. To them balance means "They 0wn", what they fail to realise is balance means nobody "owns". When a game is balanced it can go either way with the right effort, not one team can dominate the other consistantly, on all playing fields. While I do agree the classes are balanced, the game its self needs further tweaking, which it is currently undergoing. Once a new res model is in effect, I'm sure the entire game will be better balanced regardless of the server size.

kingmob · February 2003

i am glad to see a post indicating this
when i started playing i thought it was imbalanced
but the more i played both sides

my opinion changed to it is balanced ...ENOUGH
maybe not perfectly balanced but what do you expect in a game
with 2 different sides having completely different methods, weapons, etc.

we played a game at a LAN party that went forever.
it seemed this kept repeating
-aliens would get 2-3 hives
-marines would knock them back to 1

we finally quit and called it a tie rather than pass out from exhaustion
sounds pretty balanced eh
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Angelus · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NoImagination @ Feb 19 2003, 08:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The game is not balanced. If you want to believe it is, you can go on living in your pink and happy little world.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Ok, so you play in games where one team wins ALL the time.... Depending on where you play depends on your experiences (as many have said). The server i regularly play on has had games such as the one described by kingmob.... 3 - 4 hour games where no side has the tactical advantage, although we did actually finish the game eventually. Regardless of what you think, this happens quite a lot...

Catpoker · February 2003

hmmm maybe i should stop joining random team and wind up with the idiots <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Mr_Grim · February 2003

Well its all about the server u play in, i play 50/50 in both teams and both teams win 50/50, u lose some u win some, if other team keeps winning its about the server or teams, usually ppl want to play with the team that has better players and good players tend to go to the same side, so go to the other side sometimes thats what i do and both sides keep winning the same amount of games... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Pege · February 2003

Yeah. In 1.03 "everyone" said balance is fine, they changed the game and now 1.03 seems unbalanced. In 1.1 "everyone" says the balance is fine, but the game has been balanced a bit more and so 1.04 is unbalanced. Kinda funny, but that's the way it goes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

A somewhat hasty conclusion: People just don't know the game is unbalanced until they see a newer version.

MrPink · February 2003

I disagree, after reading the following thread you may too.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=22994' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=8&t=22994</a>

Aaron · February 2003

Since 1.04 came out I have been stunned with how balanced it is. There is only one issue I can think of, and that is the jet-pack whoring which has been identified as a *bug* (fuel tied to framerate) and will hopefully be fixed with the next release (which should also fix some other minor bugs).

GreyPaws · February 2003

Personally I think the game has been balanced since before 1.02. The posts about games being unbalanced ALL refer to public play. Its very obvious that its near impossible to get a feel for the game unless you are playing in a private server with people who understand the fundimentals of the game. By fundementals I dont mean "use key to build" I mean group attack, ambush, map hot spots, choke points, RN locations and some freakin FPS skill. I notice that in most public games I play (90% of the games I play are Public) one side wins because the other is much less orginized, not because the winning side used good stratagy or gameplay. There are exceptions of course, if you get 3-4 compitent people on one side its much easire to win, but the odds of more than 45% of the people in a public server being "seasoned" are slim to none.

AcKz · February 2003

maybe in pub games where nobody knows wtf to do... but in clan games there is no reason a marine team SHOULDNT WIN, unless they make A LOT of mistakes

mRWaffles · February 2003

My question is: Are aliens supposed to win with 2 hives. I have never ever won a game, and yes I have played many, when the aliens had fades. Instead of onos ending the game fades do everytime. Is that the way it is supposed to be?

SoulSkorpion · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scarface121 @ Feb 19 2003, 09:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I disagree, after reading the following thread you may too.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=22994' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=8&t=22994</a>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Hoo boy. Didn't realise it was THAT bad :/

Well, I was under the impression that 1.04 was pretty balenced based on the fact that on the servers I play on we have some VERY talented regulars and generally victory goes to the side that has the most regulars on it. This suggests that skill is more important than side.

On the other hand, be that as it may I seem to recall that when both sides have an even number of regulars the Kharaa win. You may be on to something...

It still feels that a lot of victories are very hard won. But then, it's often a case of "either the marines secure two hives or they lose the game." I seem to remember reading that Flay's original intention was for the marines to secure one hive and then it was fades vs HA\HMG in a struggle for the third hive, but I can't ever remember this happening.

Hm.... maybe there is still some tweaking left to do. It does seem that whichever side has the bigger guns wins automatically.

XtremeX · February 2003

Thank god, there is a following who follow the idea that *looks shocked* NS is balanced. Its skill that plays the deciding factor in the balance of the game.

redeemed_darkness · February 2003

Maybe Dev should release a really unbalanced version so people will appreciate some thing that is balanced for once
The only thing is unbalanced is the flow of play eg. Marine 2 hive = win and Aliens 3 hive = win (but not so bad as the marines) allowing both teams to be slack and still have a good chance of an win

littlewild · February 2003

Interestingly, Flayra himself says that 1.04 is not as balanced as he would like. Assuming equal skills from both teams, the Aliens have a better chance at winning.

Then again, "balanced" is a very subjective word.

pardzh · February 2003

Been saying it all along:

Play with morons, game is unbalanced.
Play with coherent non-drooling people, game is balanced.

What a revelation. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

<i>edit:</i> That is true with pubs...

ZiGGY · February 2003

i think i just got owned by the best cartoon character ever

GreyPaws · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (littlewild @ Feb 19 2003, 10:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Interestingly, Flayra himself says that 1.04 is not as balanced as he would like. Assuming equal skills from both teams, the Aliens have a better chance at winning.

Then again, "balanced" is a very subjective word.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Hmm will you post a link to where Flay says that? I mean I had an Idea that aliens might have a slight advantage, my reasoning is complicated, but I'd like to see what Flay had to say about that.

Charge · February 2003

"another child has seen the light" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Paq · February 2003

Many people whines that fades are too powerfull, but the fact is that they are fighting against them without any upgrades (or MAYBE weapons at level 1). With level 3 hmg fade is just a joke in close range <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Church · February 2003

Actually, Flay says that in organized clan games with equal skills, marines are supposed to win.

JP/HMG = too powerful (I still use it tho <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> )

Naughty_Brembo · February 2003

YES YES YES, it´s darn near PERFECT.

On public servers, that is. Clan play sees the marines win every time.

Naughty_Brembo · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I seem to remember reading that Flay's original intention was for the marines to secure one hive and then it was fades vs HA\HMG in a struggle for the third hive, but I can't ever remember this happening.

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I´m so sorry for you, because I see that all the time. Seriously. Try shopping for a new server with many regulars playing.

Methinks that the problem is people giving up at the first yell of "FADES!!!OMG FAAAAAADES!!1! F4 F4"
Upgrades and the right teamwork makes for one helluva battle mid-game, Fades+Lerks+Battlegorge versus HA+HMG+GL marines. Ahhh that´s my kind of fight...

And before that, your trusty LMG-Pistol combo is better than most people realize against fades. Just_keep_the_gun_in_his_face. Hunt him down. All fades turn tails and run once you´ve pumped half a clip in them...that´s your cue to start ripping him a new one from behind.

Too many people duck in and out of cover, taking pot-shots. The fade will win every time in a sniping contest.

As long as your gorge webs the place down, the JPers won´t be the "end-all" either...

killswitch · February 2003

I don't think the major problem is balanced, the major problem is repetition. Everyone just does the same thing every game; grab hives. We need patches for FUN.

That said, there may be some balance issues in high person games with marines but who knows.

Redford · February 2003

We need more smart people on these forums... thank god for this man.

I Just Realized It!

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