The reason why I hardly comm is simple. No one listens or my team can't kill the skulks. So either A.) I hop out of the comm and save base or B.) Play marine and watch several teammates drop stuff for theirselves. We all have our bad days shooting, but lately it has been ridiculous.
It's a very tiresome and stressful job.. Also you don't get the rush of shooting down skulks with hmg.. Not to mention you get criticized easily and most ppl rather have fun on pub servers..
Alright, listen up guys, THE KEY to getting marines to listen to you is COMMUNICATION. Try and have a valid plan for the map before you hop in the com chair. Inform your marines of what the main alien hive is, and then tell them your strategy for going about this round. If you are tech rushing, or doing the 2 hive-lockdown thing. Also what works, is when you order a marine around, use his name, most of time he'll respond more to your orders. Instead of the I need a few marines to head to subspace, try Bob, Joe, and Carl head out to subspace. When your marines have a better understanding of what you are trying to accomplish, they will do whatever they can to help carry out the overall plan, and possibly take the initiative in some instances without you having to tell them what to do exactly.
For Example:
Map: ns_nancy
Com: Alright Alien mainhive is Port Engine. I need 2 ppl to defend base. Bob and Joe you're it. I need 2 ppl to run to Noname and kkep it clear for as long as you can, Carl and Sue. Everyone else subspace. We're going to try and secure sub first.
Right off the bat, there's alot of communication right there. And you already have a gameplan. Now most of the marines will listen (hopefully but it's not always the case) And you've also held certain marines by name responsible for carrying out certain tasks. This also helps to displace blame should anyone not be cooperative. Another thing is it shows that the com knows what he's doing, confidence in leadership fosters cooperation from the grunts.
Many of my experiences with comms have been ones where they needed to be coached. It might be that I am somewhat of a "backseat driver" but some comms don't give out orders and instead expect their marines to group up and take places by themselves and just react to their needs. A GOOD comm has a plan in mind and gives orders and still is able to react correctly.
I usually NEVER comm unless no one else does and I think it's because I'm frightened of failure. I know I don't have a lot of experience with it and I'd hate to lose the game for the team because of that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well I addressed the first part about trying to get your marines to cooperate with you. The 2nd part is "What if you're marines can't aim/shoot?" Well not a whole lot you can do in this department, sometimes the other team just has better players. In other cases, the best way to remedy this situation is to get upgrades for your marines, alot of ppl like to get motion track right away, but I would advise against it, unless you got the resources to spare. The first upgrade should be weapon upgrades, it sucks trying to kill a skulk with lvl 3 carapace with no weapon upgrades, (21 direct hits with an lmg to kill a skulk ouch!). Also weapon upgrades make your turrets do more damage, which makes defending outposts much easier. When I do upgrades, I like to go in this order, wep lvl 1, wep lvl 2, motion track, armor 1, wep lvl 3, armor 2, armor 3. Try and squeeze in heavy weapons, jetpacks, and heavy armor in between all that when you have the resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--ImaNewbie+Feb 19 2003, 08:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ImaNewbie @ Feb 19 2003, 08:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I get a headache after commanding a game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya, you'll probably get that every time.. even when you win.
I hear ya Cobra, but every good com had to start out somewhere. Usually, if you want to try and com, best to let your team KNOW you are NEW TO THE COM and would like to learn. Usually the team will give you more slack, or they will ask that you step aside and let someone more experienced do it. Most of the time, you get advice and be coached along by the more experienced players, after all you've already declared that you're new at this. I also advice that you not try and com until you've played the game for some time and have a decent understanding of the game. One piece of advice I can give ya, is NEVER drop a turret factory in your base right away. Turrets are expensive, especially in the beginning, your better off spending the resources on an observatory and phase gates. Resource towers if you're tech-rushing (advanced comming, rushes should be avoided if you're new) If you feel you're base needs extra protection in the beginning, try a set or 2 of mines for initial defense. You want turrets in your base eventually, but do that after you've already secured 2 hives.
I understand sometimes the marines can't shoot sometimes, but when i get 6-7 games in a row of it. It just sucks. Usually I'll slam MT, lvl1 armor and then weapons. I really try to stay away from the TF unless we are totally being slaughted. At this point I know my team is out classed so I just go through the motions to make them happy.
For them not listening, I've explained to them what I'm doing where I'm going, what's the plan. I've also said you don't get ha/jp/whatever if you don't work teamup. I tried the reward, strat, and solo programs. It don't make a difference, lately people just want to rambo it out, die and suck up the resource fund.
Go with the weapons first diehard, it's better to kill the skulk first then to try and outlast him. Half a clip to kill a skulk sucks, specially if you got multiple skulks <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Like I said though, not really much you can do if you got a newbie <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> team.
Yesterday I played a game on i think the redphive number 1 server with 14 on 14 teams - im not really sure but anyway big teams.
After 2 previous lost rounds by the marines on ns_hera I went comm. Aliens had archiving hive and after i got ips armory observatory and mines around base up i sent 2 marines to reception - for distraction, 2 marines i told to guard base and the rest of the team to go towards vent to get rts and take processing.
funny 2 people stayed 1 person went towards vent and the rest of the team went reception where ofcourse the entire alien team were poring in and slaughtered all the marines.
the 1 marines that went towards vent got to processing and built a phase gate and 2 more marines joined him. the 3 marines built turrets and sieges and secured processing. then i sent them back down towards vent to get the 2 rts and we secured those with turrets too.
as you can see we pretty much had the game in the bagg as resources were flowing and we controlled 2 hives.
lvl3 upgrades were going and i was just spamming jps ha's and hmgs for 14 people.
i told them to take the phase gate to processing and advance to holo. untill now i played this game with 3 marines who actually knew to press the use key on the phase gate. the rest of my team was STILL fighting skulks and lerks in reception with jps ha's hmgs gls and they even had welders and they STILL were getting slaughtered. sad
i was trying to take care of the 3 marines trying to advance to holo when the rest of my team - the noobs started complaining that my spamming isnt fast enough. they were all worming around base around jps has and hmgs then going to reception to die and respawn and get more stuff.
i decided to only drop ha's hmgs welders and gls as i thought the marines wouldnt die so fast the team then started swearing at me and telling me im a noob and why am i not dropping jps
at this point i was just about ready to explode so i logged out and invited the noob with the biggest mouth to show me how its done
the dude started dropping jps and whatnot and ofcourse the team went reception to get slaughtered again
in about 5 minutes aliens took processing and data core and vent went up and ofcourse the marines who couldnt kill skulks and lerks were no match for onos and fades
sad sad game <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem I face the most with comming is that people don't want to try new things. When your marines aren't obeying orders, and are instead hanging around the base typing out what I *should* be telling them to do, there's a problem. I actually lost a game purely to this once. I dropped one IP, told them the new location of the base, and 2 headed off in that direction. The rest stood in base saying "NO, DON'T GO, THAT WON'T WORK" and promptly died to 2 or 3 skulk rushers. The IP got chomped, and the 2 listening marines unlucky ended up dying.
I mean, it's one thing to suggest a different plan - but under no circumstances should a marine refuse orders. Even running off to work on what might be a worthless plan is better than sitting around in base arguing. I openly tell my comms all the time: "This isn't a good idea." But I do it anyway =P
I like commading, the problem is, with my 56k, i often get packet loss and get cl_flushentityshit and a wonderful ping of 4000 every 5 mins or so. I can win you any game if my marines go where i ask them to go.
When marines hump the armory, i recycle it and drop ammo instead. It makes people whine, but they do go where i tell them if they want ammo. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, you guys may not fear the comm chair but i sure as hell do! I may have piz0wned at starcraft, but i never blamed my protoss minions for dying and they never blamed me! Whenever I am tempted to comm, I either break down in tears knowing i will be rideculed or I realize how much more good i can do as a soldier. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, I'd like to start by saying I'm not the last Perfect Dark fan left. Personally, I like to comm. I really like RTS's, so its kind of a natural thing to me. There are a couple of reasons I don't usually jump in the chair, though. For one, the interface isn't all that great. It very well might just be my setup, but its hard to get where you need to be on the map. That saide, though, I have a real problem. I'm not good at dealing with stupid people, and seeing as many NS players in general (CS converts, maybe?), and marines in specifically are generally pretty stupid, being comm isn't a good idea for me. Especially when the calls of "OMG!!! FADES!!! ITS OVER!!!", or people refuse to move from the base because "There's aliens out there." Of course, stupidity is always more anoying in "l337 speak", which I just point and laugh at. But anyway, thats just my take on it. Sorry I couldn't offer any help.
yes shadow i agree, i've played way too many rts' for my own good and rarely lose as comm (if marines listen). But also the sad thing about pubs is sometimes you find good marines who follow orders, sometimes you get good marines who don't follow orders, sometimes you get bad marines who don't follow orders, but the most disappointing have to be the bad marines who follow orders. I nearly cried one game where 10 of my fully upgraded marines with hmgs got torn to bits by 2 shulks at southloop, i promptly quit ns and went to bed after that. However, comming can be very rewarding on the flipside. I find much satisfaction in seeing my marines happily singing as they blast into the last hive with hmgs/gls/ha with medpacks raining from the sky and ammo filling their pockets after 3 hours of intense fighting (I love prolonged 2 hive games <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
What can I say, been playing strategy games for over 15 years, (yes before computer stategy games eg. Risk, Chess, (board games.. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
When I played my first ever FPS (wolfenstien) I loved the idea of the play, and got into it, alas the FPS's lost alot of apeal afte a while since there isnt really alot of strat requiered (please no flames, just my opinion) Tribes came along and was hopefull, but didnt do the job.
Then out of the blue NS! I mean awsome game. Ok enough of the plugging, I have only been playing NS for about a week, but havent been called a n00b, since I have had lots of experience with strategy games as well as FPS's. Lucky the game fits into what my brain needs. I have jumped in the chair a few times, but am still reluctent as I wish to learn all the maps first. (bit of a perfectionist) Heck I even have a second computer sitting next to me with the current map we are playing, just incase someone say's "Get to proccessing" and my mind goes blank and dont remember where it is <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Still this is about comm'ing. I'd just like to say that if you do your best and let the marines know it, they usually are very supportive, I get alot of the "good job comm" afterwards, even if we lose (Darn you BAST!)
The tip I want to pass on to people who take up the comm, is let them know whats going on. Sure you get the humpers, and the whiners, but I've (personaly) found that if I tell them something it aliviates alot.
Had a game I comm'ed today (BAST) so of course I lost it (getting better, we held out for quite some time even against an <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> rush).
A couple of times I had a few of the guys saywhy arnt you doing this, or that, as soon as I told them what I was doing, replyed with something like "ok when your done we need to do this" Maybe I was lucky with marines, maybe my years of dealing with counceling and helping people IRL, helped me talk to people differently, or who knows.
All I can offer is try a bit more communication, it seemed to help me.
as a rabid player of other RTSes I don't jump int he chair much cuz':
1) I'm a n00b
2) I have had instances where I was comming well for once yet people keep WHINING ALL THE DAMN #($*#$@$$ TIME MAKING ME WANNA JUMP OFF MY ROOF, GOOD LORD!
3)Voice Com.........All I need to a perfect end for a perfect day is a bunch of screeching voices in my speakers in high pitched tones whining about not doing things 'their way'
4) As I said....I play other RTS games so the current com setup is a bit too flaky for me to get used to...... v1.1 looks sweet though (I need my groupings, building groupings.....marine groupings! *drool* )
this is why I avoid the chair like the black plague 90% of the time...its funny though when a bunch of marines stand around at marine start saying 'someone com!' cuz no one wants to get in the chair of hatred lol
sheesh gorging so much more fun <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think usually I stay out in the field due to fear of incompetent field players.
I have no trouble being a com if I know I have at least 3 competent players in the game. But when my entire team gets owned by 2 sulks I prefer to stay out and at least keep our feet grounded.
i love commanding, but i have to be in the right mood for it. some games i just feel like blasting some aliens and others i feel ok lets do this. i guesse its what u want to do with your game.
Comments
The reason why I hardly comm is simple. No one listens or my team can't kill the skulks. So either A.) I hop out of the comm and save base or B.) Play marine and watch several teammates drop stuff for theirselves. We all have our bad days shooting, but lately it has been ridiculous.
dh
For Example:
Map: ns_nancy
Com: Alright Alien mainhive is Port Engine. I need 2 ppl to defend base. Bob and Joe you're it. I need 2 ppl to run to Noname and kkep it clear for as long as you can, Carl and Sue. Everyone else subspace. We're going to try and secure sub first.
Right off the bat, there's alot of communication right there. And you already have a gameplan. Now most of the marines will listen (hopefully but it's not always the case) And you've also held certain marines by name responsible for carrying out certain tasks. This also helps to displace blame should anyone not be cooperative. Another thing is it shows that the com knows what he's doing, confidence in leadership fosters cooperation from the grunts.
FoodStamps
I usually NEVER comm unless no one else does and I think it's because I'm frightened of failure. I know I don't have a lot of experience with it and I'd hate to lose the game for the team because of that <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
In other cases, the best way to remedy this situation is to get upgrades for your marines, alot of ppl like to get motion track right away, but I would advise against it, unless you got the resources to spare. The first upgrade should be weapon upgrades, it sucks trying to kill a skulk with lvl 3 carapace with no weapon upgrades, (21 direct hits with an lmg to kill a skulk ouch!). Also weapon upgrades make your turrets do more damage, which makes defending outposts much easier. When I do upgrades, I like to go in this order, wep lvl 1, wep lvl 2, motion track, armor 1, wep lvl 3, armor 2, armor 3. Try and squeeze in heavy weapons, jetpacks, and heavy armor in between all that when you have the resources.
FoodStamps
Ya, you'll probably get that every time.. even when you win.
One piece of advice I can give ya, is NEVER drop a turret factory in your base right away. Turrets are expensive, especially in the beginning, your better off spending the resources on an observatory and phase gates. Resource towers if you're tech-rushing (advanced comming, rushes should be avoided if you're new) If you feel you're base needs extra protection in the beginning, try a set or 2 of mines for initial defense. You want turrets in your base eventually, but do that after you've already secured 2 hives.
FoodStamps
I understand sometimes the marines can't shoot sometimes, but when i get 6-7 games in a row of it. It just sucks. Usually I'll slam MT, lvl1 armor and then weapons. I really try to stay away from the TF unless we are totally being slaughted. At this point I know my team is out classed so I just go through the motions to make them happy.
For them not listening, I've explained to them what I'm doing where I'm going, what's the plan. I've also said you don't get ha/jp/whatever if you don't work teamup. I tried the reward, strat, and solo programs. It don't make a difference, lately people just want to rambo it out, die and suck up the resource fund.
dh
Like I said though, not really much you can do if you got a newbie <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> team.
FoodStamps
with 14 on 14 teams - im not really sure but anyway big teams.
After 2 previous lost rounds by the marines on ns_hera I went comm.
Aliens had archiving hive and after i got ips armory observatory and mines around base up i sent 2 marines to reception - for distraction, 2 marines i told to guard base and the rest of the team to go towards vent to get rts and take processing.
funny 2 people stayed 1 person went towards vent and the rest of the team went reception where ofcourse the entire alien team were poring in and slaughtered all the marines.
the 1 marines that went towards vent got to processing and built a phase gate and 2 more marines joined him. the 3 marines built turrets and sieges and secured processing. then i sent them back down towards vent to get the 2 rts and we secured those with turrets too.
as you can see we pretty much had the game in the bagg as resources were flowing and we controlled 2 hives.
lvl3 upgrades were going and i was just spamming jps ha's and hmgs
for 14 people.
i told them to take the phase gate to processing and advance to holo. untill now i played this game with 3 marines who actually knew to press the use key on the phase gate. the rest of my team was STILL fighting skulks and lerks in reception with jps ha's hmgs gls and they even had welders and they STILL were getting slaughtered.
sad
i was trying to take care of the 3 marines trying to advance to holo when the rest of my team - the noobs started complaining that my spamming isnt fast enough. they were all worming around base around jps has and hmgs then going to reception to die and respawn and get more stuff.
i decided to only drop ha's hmgs welders and gls as i thought the marines wouldnt die so fast
the team then started swearing at me and telling me im a noob and why am i not dropping jps
at this point i was just about ready to explode so i logged out and invited the noob with the biggest mouth to show me how its done
the dude started dropping jps and whatnot and ofcourse the team went reception to get slaughtered again
in about 5 minutes aliens took processing and data core and vent went up
and ofcourse the marines who couldnt kill skulks and lerks were no match for onos and fades
sad sad game
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I mean, it's one thing to suggest a different plan - but under no circumstances should a marine refuse orders. Even running off to work on what might be a worthless plan is better than sitting around in base arguing. I openly tell my comms all the time: "This isn't a good idea." But I do it anyway =P
I can win you any game if my marines go where i ask them to go.
When marines hump the armory, i recycle it and drop ammo instead. It makes people whine, but they do go where i tell them if they want ammo. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Terry: Coom, please drop a siege here, where I am, no one is nearby and I can put it up and we'll wi..wwwwaaaa ssawwa DAMN IT COMM
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL...this line owned me! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
When I played my first ever FPS (wolfenstien) I loved the idea of the play, and got into it, alas the FPS's lost alot of apeal afte a while since there isnt really alot of strat requiered (please no flames, just my opinion) Tribes came along and was hopefull, but didnt do the job.
Then out of the blue NS! I mean awsome game. Ok enough of the plugging, I have only been playing NS for about a week, but havent been called a n00b, since I have had lots of experience with strategy games as well as FPS's. Lucky the game fits into what my brain needs. I have jumped in the chair a few times, but am still reluctent as I wish to learn all the maps first. (bit of a perfectionist) Heck I even have a second computer sitting next to me with the current map we are playing, just incase someone say's "Get to proccessing" and my mind goes blank and dont remember where it is <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Still this is about comm'ing. I'd just like to say that if you do your best and let the marines know it, they usually are very supportive, I get alot of the "good job comm" afterwards, even if we lose (Darn you BAST!)
The tip I want to pass on to people who take up the comm, is let them know whats going on. Sure you get the humpers, and the whiners, but I've (personaly) found that if I tell them something it aliviates alot.
Had a game I comm'ed today (BAST) so of course I lost it (getting better, we held out for quite some time even against an <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> rush).
A couple of times I had a few of the guys saywhy arnt you doing this, or that, as soon as I told them what I was doing, replyed with something like "ok when your done we need to do this" Maybe I was lucky with marines, maybe my years of dealing with counceling and helping people IRL, helped me talk to people differently, or who knows.
All I can offer is try a bit more communication, it seemed to help me.
1) I'm a n00b
2) I have had instances where I was comming well for once yet people keep WHINING ALL THE DAMN #($*#$@$$ TIME MAKING ME WANNA JUMP OFF MY ROOF, GOOD LORD!
3)Voice Com.........All I need to a perfect end for a perfect day is a bunch of screeching voices in my speakers in high pitched tones whining about not doing things 'their way'
4) As I said....I play other RTS games so the current com setup is a bit too flaky for me to get used to......
v1.1 looks sweet though (I need my groupings, building groupings.....marine groupings! *drool* )
this is why I avoid the chair like the black plague 90% of the time...its funny though when a bunch of marines stand around at marine start saying 'someone com!' cuz no one wants to get in the chair of hatred lol
sheesh gorging so much more fun <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have no trouble being a com if I know I have at least 3 competent players in the game. But when my entire team gets owned by 2 sulks I prefer to stay out and at least keep our feet grounded.