Fades Too Powerful?

Shifty_Powers · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Are They?</div> I dunno, but i kinda think they are.
1. they got a lot of health
if u still have LMGs no way u are going to stand a chance against this thing. sure you and your whole team can rush 1 fade, but when the fade dies most of your teammates will be too... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>
2. here's an idea (may be stupid)
how bout you make the fades have to upgrade to get all their weaponry (e.g. once u evolve to a fade, you only have your claws and have to go upgrade to get acid rockets etc.)

Pls. feel free to riducule/flame/burn/or agree with me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Vash · February 2003

Sigh...Only someone who has never actually played as a Fade would think they are too powerful. Because from the marines perspective these guys are like undefeatable beasts of godlike massiveness. Try playing as a Fade sometime...If you see more than 2 marines in one area your most likely not going to try and kill them, LMG's are their weakest weapons but one full clip will still nearly kill you. Probably will kill you if you took any upgrade other than Carapace. They're not too strong, most people just know how to play a Fade well enough to not die. If you think about it they are just really big skulks, their claws only do 5 more damage than skulk bite. Leap = Blink, more or less, except you can kill with leap and leap will probably get you places faster.

This thread has also been done about 239823029 times too. o_o

SemperFi1 · February 2003

For the love of <span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'><b>GOD</b></span>

Raz · February 2003

Please look back, there have been so many posts on this it's not even funny. Fades are not overpowered, if anything, marines are. Just look at endgame...I see fades and even onos die to good marine rushes all the time, but do you ever see the HA/HMG/Welder marine death squad die to the skulks?

Teufel_Eldritch · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Are fades to powerful?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

No.

masterswordman · February 2003

I unconditionally agree.

Shifty_Powers · February 2003

ok then just needed to hear some opinions

next time i ll use search sorry guys for wasting your time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Question · February 2003

Only the most incompetent fade would let a marine live long enough to empty a full lmg clip into him...assuming 100% of the bullets hit.

Syclone · February 2003

NO WAY ARE FADES TOO POWERFUL ... hell they cost 54 now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

playerhater · February 2003

I dont care really if its been discussed a thousand times or not, or what this general forum has decided about this topic. Are fades to powerful? IMHO, I would have to say, yes they are, without a doubt! So many may disagree, so what. This game is so uneven, but I still like to play for some reason. IMO, its not just fades though. And yes, with a good team and a good commander the marines will most certainly triumph. But, really, how often does this happen. We all know the answer, about 25% of the time. Statistics speak for themselves. Even the game!

Cry_Havoc · February 2003

What statistics are you looking at?

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

sej · February 2003

Fades too powerful..

Thats like saying,

HMGs are too powerful, nooo we cant have that.

HA makes you too strong, 7 bites, meh

JP makes you fly - omg i cant fly as skulk so jp = overpowered. Jetpackers unkillable, they need to be taken out.

LMGs - ffs can kill an uncarapaced skulk in 9 bullets. NINE . 50 bullets in a clip. Therefore one marine = power of 5 skulk, wtf kind of balance is that. LMGs ruin the game.

Pistol - 100 percent accuracy and TWO HUNDRED DAMAGE from a whole clip - same as aimbot.

WTF marine have a commander who can give INFINITE HP - godmode marines :/ unbalanced imo.

Shotgun - 1 shot 1 kill, the AWP of NS (boring)

Mines - ack! they allow marines to completely SEAL OFF the map - all you need is enough mines to seal off aliens to one corner of map for marines to win.....

Turrets - extra aimbot enabled marines for the team.

In the light of this, and i could go on, i think the marines are overpowered, and something needs to be done about them. I suggest the removal of the following structures : Command Chair . Marines should start off with nothing but their knife, and their hp lowered to 70 in line with skulks.

Feel free to comment <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Catpoker · February 2003

do as i do as a comm and research level 3 weps and armor asap

then go with HA (NOT JETPACKS) and have a TEAM (keyword TEAM, once agian TEAM, TEAM TEAM TEAM) go and move together with welders hamg and 1-2 GL (depending on size) and blast down everything in their path

RT are very importiant and turrets are worthless

... thats about it

playerhater · February 2003

I only keep stats for the past 30 days. these are stats from one of my more played servers.

ns_eclipse 107 games played (14.27%). 147 total rounds (18.73%). 15m1s avg round time.
Total time 3d16h36m. Last played on 02/16/03 at 12:53:42am.
Marines
Total Kills: 3632 18.87%
Total Wins: (20.41%) 30 14.71%
Aliens
Total Kills: 4353 21.80%
Total Wins: (79.59%) 117 20.10%

ns_caged 101 games played (13.47%). 113 total rounds (14.39%). 20m7s avg round time.
Total time 3d14h21m. Last played on 02/15/03 at 11:35:42pm.
Marines
Total Kills: 2105 10.94%
Total Wins: (22.12%) 25 12.25%
Aliens
Total Kills: 2974 14.90%
Total Wins: (77.88%) 88 15.12%

ns_nothing 95 games played (12.67%). 83 total rounds (10.57%). 21m38s avg round time.
Total time 3d9h13m. Last played on 02/16/03 at 03:25:48am.
Marines
Total Kills: 2272 11.80%
Total Wins: (22.89%) 19 9.31%
Aliens
Total Kills: 2259 11.31%
Total Wins: (77.11%) 64 11.00%

ns_tanith 93 games played (12.40%). 73 total rounds (9.30%). 18m56s avg round time.
Total time 3d2h25m. Last played on 02/15/03 at 04:00:34pm.
Marines
Total Kills: 1833 9.52%
Total Wins: (26.03%) 19 9.31%
Aliens
Total Kills: 1955 9.79%
Total Wins: (73.97%) 54 9.28%

ns_missilecommand_final 72 games played (9.60%). 181 total rounds (23.06%). 11m49s avg round time.
Total time 2d21h6m. Last played on 02/15/03 at 05:01:46pm.
Marines
Total Kills: 3732 19.39%
Total Wins: (34.81%) 63 30.88%
Aliens
Total Kills: 2573 12.89%
Total Wins: (65.19%) 118 20.27%

ns_atomicmass19 12 games played (1.60%). 18 total rounds (2.29%). 38m26s avg round time.
Total time 14h59m. Last played on 02/15/03 at 10:15:30pm.
Marines
Total Kills: 475 2.47%
Total Wins: (31.58%) 6 2.94%
Aliens
Total Kills: 476 2.38%
Total Wins: (68.42%) 13 2.23%

This is with many mods installed that give slight advantages to the Marines and yet they till lose around 70 to 80% of the time.

sej · February 2003

Catpoker, aliens <b>do</b> hav a chance against a team of hmg gl ha, if theyre organised.... but you dont see that on a public server often..

On the server i play, marines can choose to win, or not to for most of the games. I.E they can either jetpack rush, or try to make it an interesting game and let aliens get two hives.

Normally they just jetpack rush and kill the hives and its game over <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Catpoker · February 2003

but sej, you cant say that fades vs HMG/HA is not THE most fun and tense experence, every team has something to lose.

and that is gaming bliss <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

and besides, i have seen sucessful jetpack rushs, but you have to be fast and need at least 2 people to know how to fly and shoot at the same time (like asking a blonde to walk and chew bubblegum most never get the hang of it) and what happens if it fails? game over that quick.....

TenSix · February 2003

I don't think Fades are overpowered, just for some reason people will NOT rush them. I actually watched a guy stare at a Fade killing our res tower for about 10 seconds. Then he turned around and ran.

With level 3 upgrades Fades go down very fast. Pistol + 1/2 a LMG clip will kill a Fade at level 3.

I actually got sick of playing Fades so much since people were so wimpy around them. It was just to easy to kill 3+ people because 2 of them were trying to run away while 1 poor sap actually tried to kill you!

Now I mostly play Skulk, bit more challenge. If I do go Fade I use blink 90% of the time. Lerk is becoming my favorite class though, weak, but fun if your not afraid to die realativly often.

If people just shot the damn Fades and stop worried about losing their oh so precious LMG/Pistol, then the bitching level would go down 10 fold.

sej · February 2003

YES it is, my most memorable games are like that.....

The pinnacle of NS game play in my opinion - you get all the alien types involved - lerks, fades, gorges and skulks have to work together to bring down a team of hmg ha, and when thats done, wow is it satisfying.

Kind of sucks if youre a marine though <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Fantasmo · February 2003

You know, ever since 1.04 I find Fades to be even more fun to use!

They were probably too powerful in the prior versions but in 1.04 your health <i>drains</i> when you have 2-3 LMGs firing at you! Why I'm having a great time with these noticably weaker Fades is because you have to be craftier with your Blink, quicker and more accurate at dispatching 2-3 marines when they rush into melee range and you really have to consider a lerk/fade/skulk companion.

Yeah I said Skulk... I love it when I can't directly hit a marine with my rockets so I splash them as much as I can and then my skulk companion goes ripping through them taking out the 3 weakened marines in one feel swoop! Teamplay goodness!

Gone is the time you can sit outside a Marine base endlessly launching Acid Rockets into the base stacking kills. Gone is the time you can go into a heavily fortified position and take out marines <i>and</i> all the important structures.

Nowadays Marines have no idea how many time I just escape/kill them with like <25 hp/<25 armour. *Whew*

Fades aren't unstoppable, they never were and are even less so now. Before you start getting mad and accusing the Fades of inbalance you have to consider;

1) What level of Upgrade do you have on your Weapons and Armour?
2) What Weapons and Armour have you Teched up?
3) Are you rushing Fades together with a couple Marines?
4) Are there Defence Chambers near the Fade?*

*So many time near the endgame when Marines are totally contained in their base they yell, scream and complain Fades are unstoppable and they can never kill them even rushing. Well genius have you considered that gorges have probably stacked Defence Chambers outside of your base?

Fades are tough, they are suppose to be, but there are sufficient counters to balance things out for the marines.

EDiT: Wanted to add, <b>just like <i>everything</i> about the marine team it is the level of teamwork that determines the success of your team. From Skulks rushes to Onos attacks, teamwork can counter it all.</b>

Typhon · February 2003

The imbalance is not in the stats of the guns, or hp of the aliens, its <b>in the players themselves</b>.

Public servers you see 75% alien wins. Why? Because a generally disorganized, non-communicating, every-man-for-himself, ramboing alien team WORKS. The same on a marine team will result in the rapid loss of the marines.

For aliens, only one person needs to really know what hes doing (the gorge). All the skulks need to do is run around the map and kill anything they see. Anytime the marines attack, every alien knows "hey, theres marines over there" and rushes to get kills.

On the marine end, marines running off to get kills give NO benefit to the marines. The "one guy who knows what hes doing" (the commander) has to rely on the marines to do his bidding (building, securing, defending, etc).

The commander also (and IMO this is the biggest problem) has to take on the duties that the hive mind provides the aliens for free: letting the team know where the enemies are, which areas are under attack, etc. No matter what the gorge is doin, or how busy he is, a structure under attack gives notification to every alien. For the commander, 'sentry firing' and 'your base is under attack' get drowned out by requests for weapons, medpacks, ammo, buildings, etc. Ever been given a welder to go check on (for example) sewers, and find your base gone and a hive building there?

On the alien team, independant gameplay works because the hive mind automatically informs the alien team of where to go to get kills. The marines have a similar 'all seeing eye' watching over them, but that eye gets lazy and distracted, unlike the alien's eye that never misses anything.

Since the devs have no control over how responsive comms are, i believe the solution is to make the sweet lady that informs the comm of how badly the mission is going to ALSO tell the marines the same information. Ofcourse how would this be represented to the marines? I think doing it the same way as commander orders (a target on the screen that adjusts size for distance), but in a different color, say red, would work.

This is the best solution IMO because it improves public marines (by letting them know of conflict points without the commander having to let them know), but it DOESN'T adjust the game in such a way as to effect pro-games. In clan play the comm already has enough skill to handle everything and get his marines to conflict points, so by providing a little aid to less skilled comms only, i think it will balance out public play without adversely affecting clan play.

Comments? Criticism?

Fantasmo · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Feb 17 2003, 12:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The imbalance is not in the stats of the guns, or hp of the aliens, its <b>in the players themselves</b>.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I wholeheartedly agree.

SemperFi1 · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Feb 17 2003, 12:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i believe the solution is to make the sweet lady that informs the comm of how badly the mission is going to ALSO tell the marines the same information. Ofcourse how would this be represented to the marines? I think doing it the same way as commander orders (a target on the screen that adjusts size for distance), but in a different color, say red, would work.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Thats seriously not a bad idea...

Boy_Wonder · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Vash- @ Feb 16 2003, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sigh...Only someone who has never actually played as a Fade would think they are too powerful. Because from the marines perspective these guys are like undefeatable beasts of godlike massiveness. Try playing as a Fade sometime...If you see more than 2 marines in one area your most likely not going to try and kill them, LMG's are their weakest weapons but one full clip will still nearly kill you. Probably will kill you if you took any upgrade other than Carapace. They're not too strong, most people just know how to play a Fade well enough to not die. If you think about it they are just really big skulks, their claws only do 5 more damage than skulk bite. Leap = Blink, more or less, except you can kill with leap and leap will probably get you places faster.

This thread has also been done about 239823029 times too. o_o  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Just because you play as Fades wont change your mind about them.

When i play as fade with carapace i pretty much unstoppable even with hmg shooting me.

Also if im injured i blink the hell out of there. In my opinion they are god if you know how to use them.

Charge · February 2003

if they get fades your team sux0rz <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Lindstrom · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Charge @ Feb 17 2003, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if they get fades your team sux0rz <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I hate the generalized "if you let them ______ then your team sucks" (I'm guessing that you're being sarcasitic so this doesn't include you)
I see that as a responce to almost any/every crit of something in NS. This is getting as bad as those "FIRST!" posters on other sites.

Charge · February 2003

ok if they get fades they r0x0r <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> ahh yes i was being sarcastic <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>